0
   

America and foreign films.

 
 
Vasska
 
Reply Tue 23 Dec, 2008 02:14 pm
I kept noticing that Americans in general don't like movies that are spoken in different languages.

I don't have much statistics for it and being European not to much air about the subject to state the fact, so my questions are rather blunt.

Anyhow I love movies whether they are American, British, German, Spanish, Polish, Chinese/Hong Kong, Korean or Japanese. The last three being the main victims of American movie-company's of which we all know the names.

This is how it works;
They buy the rights of an Korean/Chinese/Japanese blockbuster, remake later it, and put it on the American market.

The reason behind it being that the original version was not suitable for the American market. Many of these movies do have a somewhat non Western air about them, for the simple reason of them being Asian. But are not harder to watch than any American movie showing in the cinema now.

Many foreign movies in my opinion get slaughtered when remade to American standards, and for no good reason. I know Warner Brothers and others do this because the markets wants it, but why does the market insist on remaking it, or in the case of Anime use voice over.

Why does the average American watch the 2008 American remake of My Sassy Girl, while the Korean version makes more sense and is in every aspect better. Il Mare was of Korean decent too, but never made it in it's original form to America. The Lake House was the American version.

It was at it's high with, The Ring, The Grudge, The Eye and all other Asian horror flicks, remade again and again one after another. While some titles survive (The Departed was an acceptable remake of the Hong Kong Infernal Affairs Trilogy) others are being lined up to be slaughtered.

Guillermo del Toro made the Hellboy movies and many people watched it. At least enought to get a sequal. But his real gem El labertine del fauno and his work on El Orfornato (which have been title-translated into Pan's Lybrinth and The Orphanage) are ignored.

Long story short;

  • Why does the American Market demands remakes of good movies, rather than watch the original and read the subtitles. Is this pure ignorance, a form of xenophobia or just laziness of the average American.


  • And on a more personal level; do you feel you are part of that market. Ignoring foreign movies that are as good or as bad as American movies.

On a side note; this craze of "remaking" is slowly catching on in Europe with France and Germany using voice over on many movies, and The Netherlands on all the movies/programs targeted at children.
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Didymos Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Dec, 2008 07:31 pm
@Vasska,
We Americans, generally, hate to read. Because we loath reading, we refuse to read subtitles at the movies.

It's a shame - typically remade movies are terrible. The Grudge was awful, but Ju-on was great.
Vasska
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Dec, 2008 05:02 am
@Didymos Thomas,
Didymos Thomas wrote:
We Americans, generally, hate to read. Because we loath reading, we refuse to read subtitles at the movies.

It's a shame - typically remade movies are terrible. The Grudge was awful, but Ju-on was great.


I still find this strange for a nation that has such an impact on the world, that it's election campaign, debates and election night is broadcasted in even the smallest of countries, like mine. Not to mind the many great writers America has had, and still has.

I'm afraid the next generation of kid growing up here will also have the same attitude as many Americans have now.
0 Replies
 
Theaetetus
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Dec, 2008 08:41 am
@Didymos Thomas,
Didymos Thomas wrote:
We Americans, generally, hate to read. Because we loath reading, we refuse to read subtitles at the movies.

It's a shame - typically remade movies are terrible. The Grudge was awful, but Ju-on was great.


Don't forget The Departed, directed by Martin Scorsese. Probably the best remake of all time.
Vasska
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Dec, 2008 09:30 am
@Theaetetus,
Theaetetus wrote:
Don't forget The Departed, directed by Martin Scorsese. Probably the best remake of all time.


I mentioned The Departed:

Vasska wrote:

It was at it's high with, The Ring, The Grudge, The Eye and all other Asian horror flicks, remade again and again one after another. While some titles survive (The Departed was an acceptable remake of the Hong Kong Infernal Affairs Trilogy) others are being lined up to be slaughtered.


The Infernal Affairs Trilogy was an Honk Kong movie that you can only watch if you've had watched other movies before and are familiar with some of the Asian values etc. The Departed was mixing the 3 part trilogy in one movie, and they succeeded with an acceptable result.
Didymos Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Dec, 2008 08:37 pm
@Vasska,
Vasska wrote:
I still find this strange for a nation that has such an impact on the world, that it's election campaign, debates and election night is broadcasted in even the smallest of countries, like mine. Not to mind the many great writers America has had, and still has.

I'm afraid the next generation of kid growing up here will also have the same attitude as many Americans have now.


The next generation will not have the same attitude - the next generation will be far more depraved. They are dull and empty. Typically, that is. As always, a few exceptions bounce around.

Too many drugs, too much television, too much ease, too much of everything that we can and should do without.
Theaetetus
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Dec, 2008 08:39 pm
@Vasska,
Vasska wrote:
I mentioned The Departed:



The Infernal Affairs Trilogy was an Honk Kong movie that you can only watch if you've had watched other movies before and are familiar with some of the Asian values etc. The Departed was mixing the 3 part trilogy in one movie, and they succeeded with an acceptable result.


Sorry about that...my bad. Guilty of short attention span.
0 Replies
 
Vasska
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Dec, 2008 03:58 am
@Didymos Thomas,
Didymos Thomas wrote:
The next generation will not have the same attitude - the next generation will be far more depraved. They are dull and empty. Typically, that is. As always, a few exceptions bounce around.

Too many drugs, too much television, too much ease, too much of everything that we can and should do without.


It's the same for Europe I'm afraid. While we still watch movies with subtitles it becomes more and more clear that knowledge is fading away from our generations.
0 Replies
 
Theaetetus
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Dec, 2008 07:01 am
@Vasska,
I think a lot of the problem has to do with the No Child Left Behind Act. You are starting to see children who have been trained to take tests for the majority of their schooling rather than learning basic skills and knowledge. Automatons they are....
0 Replies
 
Delinquo
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Dec, 2008 12:36 pm
@Vasska,
I like a lot of movies that are in different languages,. like cinema paradiso (my favorite movie of all time) . I am also American, so I cannot really agree with the generalization.
0 Replies
 
urangutan
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Dec, 2008 04:08 pm
@Vasska,
Not meaning to be offensive but the original Mad Max movie had to be voiced over when shown in the United States because, our English here in Australia, including some of the accents were uncomprehensible. Mind you we do this the world over. I love the Japanese version of Mac Beth, starring Toshiro Mifune. All the world's a stage, so let the viewing screen.

I don't mind voice over but I prefer to read subtitles. I would prefer that any remake did not stray from the original but all the same everything is being removied, trilogied, computeredited or glossered in new colour, (now that was really bad English) all for our entertainment.

Strike it up as an arguement to support the other side of the industry, although I could think of many reasons to do just that. (Sorry but you have to work this one out on your own.)
0 Replies
 
Theaetetus
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Dec, 2008 04:17 pm
@Vasska,
Yuck...voice overs. Nothing is more maddening that the words not matching the actors mouths. I remember being tortured in Spanish class in 8th grade to Raiders of the Lost Ark with Harrison Ford sounding like Cheech Marin speaking Spanish. Also, why do all of the men from Japanese movies and anime have to sound so feminine?
0 Replies
 
urangutan
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Dec, 2008 04:24 pm
@Vasska,
I found the wiedest thing with the movie Mongol. I have been told it is in its original form and that is, it is spoken in Mongolian, voiced over in Russian and subtitled in English. Strike that up for the books. I could not have watched Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon with voice over, it would have killed me.
Vasska
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Dec, 2008 07:18 pm
@urangutan,
Theaetetus wrote:
I think a lot of the problem has to do with the No Child Left Behind Act. You are starting to see children who have been trained to take tests for the majority of their schooling rather than learning basic skills and knowledge. Automatons they are....


Now it really shows I read to much American Literature, since I know that act. Your point is true, by forcing kids to learn for tests instead of actually understanding the whole key principle and all other critical thinking skills. Making them walking on a slippery slope... Maybe I need to think about this more.

Delinquo wrote:
I like a lot of movies that are in different languages,. like cinema paradiso (my favorite movie of all time) . I am also American, so I cannot really agree with the generalization.


It's not a generalization but an observation. I noted I can back nothing up, with statistics and other proof. Saying "I love a movies that are in different languages, and I'm American" makes no sense towards my observation. I don't attack you or anyone else, for i know there are many American that are well educated and watching foreign films and reading foreign books, but it's about the picture in it's entirity here. I want my point to be attacked with your view or acknowlodged as truth if it is, not a bold statement.

Sorry for attacking you, but please eleborate on your use of "cannot really", which parts do you find questioning which one's do you agree with.

urangutan wrote:
Not meaning to be offensive but the original Mad Max movie had to be voiced over when shown in the United States because, our English here in Australia, including some of the accents were uncomprehensible. Mind you we do this the world over. I love the Japanese version of Mac Beth, starring Toshiro Mifune. All the world's a stage, so let the viewing screen.

I don't mind voice over but I prefer to read subtitles. I would prefer that any remake did not stray from the original but all the same everything is being removied, trilogied, computeredited or glossered in new colour, (now that was really bad English) all for our entertainment.

Strike it up as an argument to support the other side of the industry, although I could think of many reasons to do just that. (Sorry but you have to work this one out on your own.)


There is a difference between remaking a movie and using voice over. In some countries the local language is preferred over the used language inn the movie. And to be honest it's okay. I hate it, but simply walk away whenever I encounter one (or change the settings). Next to that, subtitling something can do the job well.

My Sassy Girl for instance was an 2001 boxoffice hit in Korea, and the movie is great. It could easily be released in the US with English Subtitling, which is standard on almost all Asian DVD's. The Culture is not so much different, and the movie is easily accessable for any culture.

But they decided to remake the movie with American accents and after completion saw it was worthless and made it a direct to DVD movie I believe. Same goes for The Lake House (Il mare, also Korean) but that one did recieve cinema screening for some reason.

With all "for our entertainment" I cannot agree. I closely watched the lists for movies to be released in 2008 and 2009 and found that if a movie generates enough revenue it gets a sequel, prequel or whatever they come up with (rebooting is hot nowadays with Batman & James Bond). Unless it's impossible by either the story of the first part or contractual/law issues.

With many projects it's about the money, which gets earned by making entertainment, which in the end we watch. I Cannot call the movies from the Jonas Brothers or Hannah Montana next year entertainment, but simple movies based around exploiting kids that want to see it because of their idols. Same for High School Musical that already numbers 3 movies or so, with countless ripoffs.

Theaetetus wrote:
Yuck...voice overs. Nothing is more maddening that the words not matching the actors mouths. I remember being tortured in Spanish class in 8th grade to Raiders of the Lost Ark with Harrison Ford sounding like Cheech Marin speaking Spanish. Also, why do all of the men from Japanese movies and anime have to sound so feminine?

I found the wiedest thing with the movie Mongol. I have been told it is in its original form and that is, it is spoken in Mongolian, voiced over in Russian and subtitled in English. Strike that up for the books. I could not have watched Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon with voice over, it would have killed me.


How about Hitler with a Scottish accent, 12th century Asian people who speak perfect English with the usual stereotype pronunciation thrown in, stories playing in medieval France, with English speakers. Movies about Nazi's.. speaking English, and only shouting Sieg Heil in German...

I Watched Slumdog Millionaire today about which plays in India. They constantly change from speaking Indian, to perfect English, back to Indian Again. It seems many (American) movies only have actors talking in their original languages if it looks cool in the movie.
0 Replies
 
Theaetetus
 
  1  
Reply Sat 27 Dec, 2008 11:46 am
@Vasska,
I have a hard time with movies that take place in an historical setting, but the language is not right. The perfect English before English even existed seems rather stupid. It seems so fake and not that much different than movies with voice overs.
Vasska
 
  1  
Reply Sat 27 Dec, 2008 06:12 pm
@Theaetetus,
Theaetetus wrote:
I have a hard time with movies that take place in an historical setting, but the language is not right. The perfect English before English even existed seems rather stupid. It seems so fake and not that much different than movies with voice overs.


I happened to read Maddoxreview of Quantum Of Solace today, and during his rant on the Lastest James Bond movie he sums it up nicely:

Quote:

Characters from foreign countries usually speak english in a foreign accent instead of their native tongue in movies, because subtitles don't sit well with audiences. It's sort of a cop out, but not a big deal because there's an unspoken agreement between audiences and directors that states: "we, the audience, don't want to read and in return, we promise not to make a big fuss about you dumbing down society and culture."
0 Replies
 
Caroline
 
  1  
Reply Sun 29 Mar, 2009 11:16 am
@Vasska,
Vasska wrote:
I kept noticing that Americans in general don't like movies that are spoken in different languages.

I don't have much statistics for it and being European not to much air about the subject to state the fact, so my questions are rather blunt.

Anyhow I love movies whether they are American, British, German, Spanish, Polish, Chinese/Hong Kong, Korean or Japanese. The last three being the main victims of American movie-company's of which we all know the names.

This is how it works;
They buy the rights of an Korean/Chinese/Japanese blockbuster, remake later it, and put it on the American market.

The reason behind it being that the original version was not suitable for the American market. Many of these movies do have a somewhat non Western air about them, for the simple reason of them being Asian. But are not harder to watch than any American movie showing in the cinema now.

Many foreign movies in my opinion get slaughtered when remade to American standards, and for no good reason. I know Warner Brothers and others do this because the markets wants it, but why does the market insist on remaking it, or in the case of Anime use voice over.

Why does the average American watch the 2008 American remake of My Sassy Girl, while the Korean version makes more sense and is in every aspect better. Il Mare was of Korean decent too, but never made it in it's original form to America. The Lake House was the American version.

It was at it's high with, The Ring, The Grudge, The Eye and all other Asian horror flicks, remade again and again one after another. While some titles survive (The Departed was an acceptable remake of the Hong Kong Infernal Affairs Trilogy) others are being lined up to be slaughtered.

Guillermo del Toro made the Hellboy movies and many people watched it. At least enought to get a sequal. But his real gem El labertine del fauno and his work on El Orfornato (which have been title-translated into Pan's Lybrinth and The Orphanage) are ignored.

Long story short;

  • Why does the American Market demands remakes of good movies, rather than watch the original and read the subtitles. Is this pure ignorance, a form of xenophobia or just laziness of the average American.

  • And on a more personal level; do you feel you are part of that market. Ignoring foreign movies that are as good or as bad as American movies.
On a side note; this craze of "remaking" is slowly catching on in Europe with France and Germany using voice over on many movies, and The Netherlands on all the movies/programs targeted at children.

I love world cinema but have to admit i didn't really hit that secton in the library until i ran out of english speaking horror films to watch, saying that i was recommended by an asian friend several good films too and since then i have never looked back, i can recomend a few myself. I think i didnt head over to that section because i always thought foreign films were crap because of watching a few on tv, that's what put me off but since then world cinema has produced fantastic films and you can see that more of the public are becoming aware of this judging by the section promoted in HMV and stores alike, it is becoming more popular. In general some people do not like to read subtitles which is sad but i was the same myself however i think what changed my view was that there are excellent films to enjoy. I think the more people discover this the more popular it will become.
0 Replies
 
 

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