Immortality

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Hola amigos! (brushing up on my spanish, never could any spanish to tell the truth..)

A thought just hit me recently, as if you have seen my website, often happens..

Anyway the thought were "Isn't immortality really everybody's secret little dream?" so I want to know, if you could become immortal, like say, superman, so you don't age and can't die but still feel hunger, thirst, pain and so on, would you take that chance? Would you become immortal?

My answer is simply: yes, ofcourse. Imagien to be the only immortal person on earth, no super strength or anything but you just can't die. You would be a one man army, nobody could stop you and you would be really free to do what ever you want to! Ofcourse I would take that chance, even if it means beeing the last human beeing to wander the earth for all eternity after all others have died.

NOTE: Don't know if this thread should be in this part of the forum, if it shouldn't, you can probably moove it.. Smile

/Wizzy

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@Wizzy,

No, the thought of loosing mortality, such a definite part of my character/identity is frightening, and to loose the promised rest and end of me would be my idea of hell.
I think that it sounds good but it really would de-value life. How sweet is sunshine without rain? What is pleasure if there is no pain? Our mortality is what makes life so sweet.
I think I would find some infatuation with my new power like a kid with a new toy. That might be fun but then I think I would feel some obligation to use my powers for good, like rescuing people from burning buildings or become a crime fighting robo-cop. Then everyone would want to kidnap you, study you, and enlist your abilities. What peace would you have? Forever trapped in this world, no thank you?
Most of all I would never want to live forever and miss finding that final answer to the age old question.

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@ogden,

I understand what you mean and yes, it is possible that it would become a living hell, but at the same time, I would still take that chanse but that could just be me, that's why I'm asking Smile

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@Wizzy,

Have you considered the fact that if you couldn't die, then you would have no purpose in life to do anything aside from fulfilling your own personal selfish desires?
You would never have a mate for life, since they would become old and frail while you remain young and virile. You might try for a while, but grow bored of it, if the tragic onslaught of centuries of these emotions didn't drive you insane.

You would be lonely for eternity, and that would be much worse than simply dying when nature takes its course.

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@Aristoddler,

Hi Aristoddler!

Yes I have conciderd that but doesn't see to much of a difference from living to fulfill your own personal selfish desires and then dying...

But yes ofcourse, personally I don't belive in monogamy (is it spelled like that?) but you would go thru firends like crazy. Still I feel like it would be worth it all, but once again: it is just me, I belive that I'm one of the few that would love to have that power in the long run...

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@Wizzy,

I used to think about eternal life a few years ago but quickly realized that i cannot stand to live forever (mainly because of the fact that i find death is one of the most interesting things there is). The stories of Dracula who is "blessed" with eternal life might seem cool but there are also many adaptions of that show that other side of Dracula who (secretly) wants to die because he lost everything that mattered to him.

Let's take the following scenario:

You are immortal
Your health will always be a hundred percent
You will always be good looking
You will always be rich

Even when you are blessed with these thing there are lot's of other things that need to be taken into account like others already stated:

Loved one's and even soulmates will grow old and die before your eyes, even if you find new people to love, they will also die before you. Since you are immortal this will last forever.
You will grow bored of things, whether this takes a 100 years or a 1000 years, you will grow bored and still have forever to life with it since you are immortal
Being immortal doesn't make you immune for things like war, torture and other bad things. You can still be a victim, tortured for weeks and still not die. Don't forget you are immortal but can still feel pain.
Maybe the one above is cruel, but taking into account that your live forever it might as well happen.
Your mind (or soul, if you believe in it) will eventually be at the edge of insanity or even death (if souls can die).

If you really want to torture someone you should sentence them to life. Maybe it's nice to take this discussion up to other "superpowers"?

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@Vasska,

Vasska
Ofcourse that would be nice or atleast interesting, if you have a "superpower" in mind, just throw it out there, can't hurt atleast Smile

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@Wizzy,

I would say no to choosing immortality as well.

For one thing, as others have stated, it would be complete torture to remain immortal and live to watch everyone else whom you love and hold dear die, learning very quickly that sooner or later everyone you come to care for will inevitably be taken from you. I don't think I could imagine a greater loneliness than being cursed with immortality.

However there is another way of considering immortality that I think is of greater, if not equally as much, concern: from the ethical perspective. The reason I think this is of equal importance at bare minimum is because it's one of the few, perhaps one of the only, perspectives that doesn't limit effects to simply (and conveniently) an individual level, but more importantly (likewise less conveniently) a collective and communal level. To come to an understanding of how this is so the following must be considered:

If I am immortal I would have no reason whatsoever to act for the greater good of my community
I would have no responsibility to respect my immediate environment
I would have no reason to treat my neighbor with any sort of decency whatsoever
I would have every reason to be as a-moral as inhumanly possible

Why is this? Because there is absolutely no reason to whatsoever. If the natural cycle of existence is permanently interrupted by eliminating death altogether, morality and ethics of any sort no longer have purpose. It is absolutely because life is finite, because it's temporary, and because death is the only thing in life that is guaranteed, that ethics and morality are such a vital part of our existence.

Not only that but it is also because life is finite that many of the things we take for granted in this world actually do hold aesthetic value to them once we take a step back and look around. If one is immortal one also immediately loses appreciation for such wonders, resulting also in loss of aesthetics as well as ethics. Life is temporary for a reason...

Do I want to live forever? Not in a million years. Why? Because just about everything that characterizes our humanity is lost the minute immortality is reached.

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@dancinginchains,

@t dancinginchains
I enjoyed reading your story, and completely agree with it, but still find something missing. Namely evolution. We evolve because our ancestors die and make room for a new generation of people that are able to improve upon the foundations created by out ancestors (like Plato, Aristotle and many other historically important people etc).

Death also is -as you stated - necessary for the simple reason of being able to evolve, since both the bad and the good (again the border between good and evil is a discussion for a different time) die, and with them habits, cultures and other things that could slow down (or stop) our evolutionary path for some time.

I really liked what you said at the ending:

Quote:

Do I want to live forever? Not in a million years. Why? Because just about everything that characterizes our humanity is lost the minute immortality is reached.

@t Wizzy

A superpower I would consider is one best explained by the videoclip of "Sympathy for the Devil" remixed by the neptunes, which can be found here at YouTube.

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@Vasska,

Hi dancinginchains!
Great answer! But I have to tell you, I am a controll-adicted, power-hungry freak, and it's just that power that you mentioned, that there aren't any reason for you to act human if death isn't a possibility. I know it sounds idiotic and so on but I just can't help to see all the things you could do, get, demand if you where immortal.

But as everybody have mentioned how lonely it would be, if you had somebody to be immortal with then? Say a parter of the opposit sex (cause then you can have sex with eachother...) who where also immortal, would that make the whole idea of immortality more attractive?

Vasska
So you mean something along the line of shape-shifting? Choosing how to look to other people just by thinking about it?

Ofcourse, I would love to have that superpower too. I mean, imagien beeing able to mess things up for everybody who deserves it. Change into little Georgie Bush and rob a bank or something.. Razz

And not only that, you would be able to see how the world is for anybody that you want to, blacks, whites, latinos, asian, fat, skinny, beutiful, ugly, guys, girls and so on just for reaserch, experiance it in first hand. That would realy be amazing, and gotta say better then immortality Smile

So what do you think?

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@Wizzy,

@t Wizzy

Yes indeed shape-shifting (couldn't find the words for it). I think it would be cool to be able to morph into anyone you want, but still it might prove to be as problematic as eternal life, again as said before on eternal life, you will undoubtedly change.

Assuming anyone's form can be quite "evil" for you can pretend to be someone (or something for that matter) else, and mess their lives up real bad. Some people might deserve it, but many others will not.

Again your ethics will change since you'll become arrogant (if someone doesn't let you in you just shape-shift into someone else) and many things will be boring after a while, just like eternal life.

I guess all supernatural powers should have their maximum strength and should be controlled at all times. Also you should be able to give up your power.

The movie Bruce Almighty (even being a comedy) is a good example of what sudden superpowers can do to you. (The movie of course does not take an in depth analysis but just shows the tip of the iceberg in a fun way)

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@Vasska,

Vasska
I understand what you mean, but don't agree with it. Except perhaps in something as eternal-life which is not something you have to "activate" for it to have a function. If you get bored with shape-shifting you'll probably just stop doing it.

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@Wizzy,

Wizzy wrote:

Vasska
I understand what you mean, but don't agree with it. Except perhaps in something as eternal-life which is not something you have to "activate" for it to have a function. If you get bored with shape-shifting you'll probably just stop doing it.

Yeah, your right about that. Didn't think of it that way ^^. I'm more of an worst case scenario kind of person.

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@Wizzy,

If you were immortal, does that mean you'd continue to live forever and ever after the human species becomes extinct, after some disaster renders earth uninhabitable, and after the sun explodes and consumes the solar system?

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@Aedes,

techniqually, yeah...

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@Aedes,

Aedes wrote:

If you were immortal, does that mean you'd continue to live forever and ever after the human species becomes extinct, after some disaster renders earth uninhabitable, and after the sun explodes and consumes the solar system?

If the religions are right God is doomed ^^

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@Vasska,

Vasska wrote:

@t dancinginchains
I enjoyed reading your story, and completely agree with it, but still find something missing. Namely evolution. We evolve because our ancestors die and make room for a new generation of people that are able to improve upon the foundations created by out ancestors (like Plato, Aristotle and many other historically important people etc).

Death also is -as you stated - necessary for the simple reason of being able to evolve, since both the bad and the good (again the border between good and evil is a discussion for a different time) die, and with them habits, cultures and other things that could slow down (or stop) our evolutionary path for some time.

That is a very good point that I missed.

There's an old saying that came from Hegel that I think ought to be kept in the back of our mind when considering evolution: "The more things change the more they stay the same." History has taught us this lesson time and again.

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@Wizzy,

Wizzy wrote:

But as everybody have mentioned how lonely it would be, if you had somebody to be immortal with then? Say a parter of the opposit sex (cause then you can have sex with eachother...) who where also immortal, would that make the whole idea of immortality more attractive?

Perhaps for others but not for me because there's still the whole issue of ethics, and even aesthetics, that would continue to loom over the curse of immortality even then. To me those are of far greater importance than an immortal sex partner, but with that said an immortal partner would likely reduce the loneliness unless of course if she's a man-hating lesbian. (No offense intended, just trying to prove a point.) Though I would tend to think that if someone wanted to be immortal in light of their thirst for power, even a dozen immortal counterparts would not be enough to satisfy such a being. Why? Because, as we have often seen, the world is never enough for those who have it all.

However we must also not stray too far into fantasy. There is a lesson in life that I think we've all learned, if not are learning or will learn of, which entails a vast difference between fantasy and reality. How we fantasize the way something will be is more often than not very different from how it really is. To not consider this is categorically unwise.

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@dancinginchains,

dancinginchains wrote:

Perhaps for others but not for me because there's still the whole issue of ethics, and even aesthetics, that would continue to loom over the curse of immortality even then. To me those are of far greater importance than an immortal sex partner, but with that said an immortal partner would likely reduce the loneliness unless of course if she's a man-hating lesbian. (No offense intended, just trying to prove a point.) Though I would tend to think that if someone wanted to be immortal in light of their thirst for power, even a dozen immortal counterparts would not be enough to satisfy such a being. Why? Because, as we have often seen, the world is never enough for those who have it all.

However we must also not stray too far into fantasy. There is a lesson in life that I think we've all learned, if not are learning or will learn of, which entails a vast difference between fantasy and reality. How we fantasize the way something will be is more often than not very different from how it really is. To not consider this is categorically unwise.

Wizzy had a good point, but i think you should have a really good band with someone that will last for eternity. Maybe the addition of more people might ease your loneliness. But then as you stated, what is eternal life worth to anyone which a sane mind? The world is never enough for someone who has it all.

About the fantasy and reality thing; i think fantasy is something people still need to escape from the suffocation reality, but that indeed we can never completely calculate how someone will react in reality to a situation in reality (but can come close). Other that that fantasy is still very important for keeping the mind satisfied and maybe even come up with ideas.

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@Aristoddler,

Aristoddler wrote:

Have you considered the fact that if you couldn't die, then you would have no purpose in life to do anything aside from fulfilling your own personal selfish desires?
You would never have a mate for life, since they would become old and frail while you remain young and virile. You might try for a while, but grow bored of it, if the tragic onslaught of centuries of these emotions didn't drive you insane.

You would be lonely for eternity, and that would be much worse than simply dying when nature takes its course.

How is this different really from the way things are anyway. I have outlived loved ones already, I have loved those who did not love me already, I have been lonely already, and still am lonely now.

I'm sure I f I were to ask if suicide were a good idea you would object. How is that different from turning down a chance at eternal life if such were offered.

I reject your logic.

I love those I love, and when they are no more I carry them with me, It is the memory of joy that carries me through the pain of loss. Indeed life is painful often, but that is no reason to run from it. Pain is an inevitable price we must pay in order to buy future happiness.

If we allow the memory of pain grow into such fear that we are unable to risk, then we will never know happiness again. It is irrelevant if we will live merely another few years, or for the rest of time.

I would embrace immortality, even though my heart is often heavy. I would relish in the knowledge that so many more years were to come in which I could pursue true happiness, and joy. And in the great long depths of eternity, so many years of happiness would be the reward for the many in which I inevitably would suffer.

You say "if you couldn't die, then you would have no purpose in life to do anything aside from fulfilling your own personal selfish desires?" I say, "NO!" In an eternal life there is truly, finally, a logical reason to embrace all forms of long term thinking. It becomes in your clear and undeniable interest to do all one can to foster a better world. For in an eternal life you will be there, to selfishly enjoy the fruits of such a better world.

Fear not life my friend!

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