'Religion's gotta be practical'

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Greetings my fellow men and women may all of G-d's blessings be upon you this day.

Today's theory is ."Religion has got to be practical." and our study of "Practicality of some major religions." Make no mistake it's not "which religion here is better than the other?" Because both have their strong points and that would be mind numbing but "Which religion here is more practical?"

G-d has been so good to me and blessed me with many awesome and amazing things. (mainly spiritual not physical) One which I believe is the truth. The truth folks is a dieing breed few are less than concerned that they may be in error in the wrong or on the wrong path. I have been wrong but I assure you that I want what is right.

How can I say it lightly? Well let's say this anybody who is anybody thinks "they're right" I will even go as so far as you might have to be crazy to think you're always wrong. it's just apart of our science. Nothing wrong with that I suppose.

The course of truth is prevailed by those who are determined to find answers. For instance my brother told me the other day "you look for something hard enough you are going to find it." He is very right I have sought very hard for G-d's will and you know what? I found it, case and point.

I have yet again left Christianity once and for all because of this main reason which many may not recognize or admit.

Figure 1
Christianity to me is just not that practical here's the figure

There are 5 main day to day practices to the christian faith
The normal christian reads the bible
The normal christian attends church
The normal christian prays
The normal christian tithes
The normal christian evangelizes

Now all of you should agree that these are the essential principles to the christian walk. I know from experience and research and observation
Now that shouldn't surprise any of you however I am going to use the same principles with some numbers and this will if not should shock you. These are not 100% actual or authentic but through study, statistic and self-experiment

The average christian reads the bible 30min a day or 4 hrs a week (some don't read that often) (the average atheist has read more than the average christian)
The average christian attends church once a week for about 1-2 hours (some more so but that's okay too if they are occupied with events and such but not necessary)
The average christian prays 7-10 minutes a day
The average christian tithes 10% or at least they should
The average christian evangelizes once a year for a few hours or more maybe even a day straight or a missionary trip for a week (for good measure you know unless you are some kind of preachor or minister this is normal though)

Now if we total up these average figures the average christian is practicing their faith and you can count these too over the course of one week
1.4 hours bible study a week
2. 2 hours church a week
3. 1hr 10 min prayer a week
4. 10% tithe=10% of our time to earn it of a 40 hour week = 4 hours a week
5. one-three days of annual evangelism on a average 8 hour a day witness equals around 24 hours a year or also 15 minutes a day to 1hour 46 minutes a week
The grand total for the average christian of practicing their faith is.....
a whopping 14 hours a week!!!
What the? This is pitiful I just can't stomach it. I am guilty of these figures and maybe even less that the above proposal

Now just think you have 24 hours in one day
168 hours in one week and according to the above numbers most don't even spend 10% of their time and energy practicing their faith! This is sad to top it off most of us are wrecthed in sin!

No wonder the churches are like graveyards!
No wonder the worship is so lukewarm!
no wonder the churches are 10,000s to keep you all awake!
No wonder the world calls us hypocrites!
No wonder we don't practice what we preach!

This is the main reason why Christianity is not enough for me anymore, sure it is enough for most people or even too much. I do not hate christians this is just the way the religion is made up. I am presenting you with a case of this perspective that "Christianity is just not that practical"

That's a fact! Well at least here anyhow.

So what the alternative? Ever since I became a Christian raised a christian supported christianity I was still paralyzed by something and I kept searching and searching for "practical appliance of my faith" I do not hate christians I am just saying most of them are all very nice people however Not one Christian could ever give me a straight solid answer "How should I live my daily life" I asked but no one knew They were mostly clueless someone said "write a journal" so i did and it took me to where I am at......out of christianity. I went back to the church by persuasion by my parents shame on me. I was trying to please them well I can't do that anymore either I please G-d or my parents but it can't be both because the Christian faith is their whole life. and this is where it gets hard to part ways with loved ones for the sake of true love but there is hope in religion.

One word Judaism. That's the answer that I found plagued my spirit with despair. Now I am not saying that I am a jew because I will not be accepted as an authentic jew because of my belief in Yashua who is mankind's atonement I am saying Judaism as a daily practice.

It's fantastic! My heart's desire! Keeping G-d's commandments that's a daily practice you bet! Most Christians don't believe in the Torah but Judaism teaches it as a daily practice this is what I longed and what I found G-d is very good to give me the desires of my heart. The average synagogue is in service on sabbath 12 hours on sabbath day from dusk to dawn the average jew spends more time practicing their faith in one day than a christian may walk out their faith all week, this is the way it should be religion as a daily event a daily practice to make it complete. Just ask any jew there's alot more going on than just visting the synagogue they're practicing daily! that's practical!

Please read carefully I am not saying Christianity is all wrong I am saying it's just not that practical we are on pathways to the Almighty in different religions so whoever is righteous let him speak before G-d and make his case plain as G-d casts his perfect judgement on us.

What do you think?

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@Israelite007,

I agree with the premise that religions should be practical.

I disagree with the premise that Christianity is not practical.

Yes, many people are only half true to their spiritual practice. This is true in every faith tradition. What I object to is your evaluation of time spent in worship. Every moment should be part of the practice. You can glorify God by washing the dishes.

Jumping from tradition to tradition - moving in to one, only to abandon it for another, and then another - this smacks of spiritual materialism. If within the Christian tradition there is valuable spiritual teaching - be a Christian. If within the Jewish tradition there is valuable spiritual teaching - be a Jew as well. And so on for every tradition. If the teaching is valuable, make that teaching part of your own spiritual heritage.

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@Israelite007,

Quote:

I agree with the premise that religions should be practical.

I disagree with the premise that Christianity is not practical.

Yes, many people are only half true to their spiritual practice. This is true in every faith tradition. What I object to is your evaluation of time spent in worship. Every moment should be part of the practice. You can glorify God by washing the dishes.

Thanks Didymos for your reply. Please read my words carefully I am not saying Christianity is not practical I am saying it is not "that" practical in other words as a daily practice. What I mean is something you can apply to any situation in the course of time as in G-d's commandments you can apply that to any generation in time given some adaption but mainly it would apply to any period in time Christianity to me doesn't do that. What do you think? Does it apply practically everyday to any period in time? If so what is practical about it? Or how do you apply Chrisitanity to the mundane aspects of life? therefor making it more practical?

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@Israelite007,

Quote:

Please read my words carefully I am not saying Christianity is not practical I am saying it is not "that" practical in other words as a daily practice.

I read the post. That Christianity is not practical as a daily practice I object to. You say "Christianity is not that[/t] practical", which seems to compare Christianity's practicality with some other tradition, presumably Judaism. And I object to the idea that any faith tradition is necessarily more or less practical than another.

[QUOTE]What I mean is something you can apply to any situation in the course of time as in G-d's commandments you can apply that to any generation in time given some adaption but mainly it would apply to any period in time Christianity to me doesn't do that.[/QUOTE]

Yes, God's commandments are practical, and in my estimation valuable. However, keep in mind, these commandments are also part of the Christian tradition - Jesus, as a rabbi, taught them.

Some traditions work better for different people. If your new found faith works for you, bless you on your path. That said, I've read many of your posts and threads on this forum. This shift, this new found criticism of the value of Christian teaching is a huge departure from your previous claims, a departure that seems extreme. Thus, I have some concerns that much of this shift is spiritual materialism.

Luckily, as long as you are honest in your pursuit, all of this will work out in time

[QUOTE]What do you think? Does it apply practically everyday to any period in time? If so what is practical about it? Or how do you apply Chrisitanity to the mundane aspects of life? therefor making it practical?[/QUOTE]

Sure, I think the Christian tradition is full of wonderfully valuable teachings. I have found the tradition so valuable that I have come to call myself a Christian.

Just a few examples of practical Christian teachings off the top of my head (if you need the location of these teachings of scripture, just ask, I can look them up if you like). I apologize for the horrible paraphrasing:

'The disciples asked Jesus "What is the most important commandment" and Jesus said "Love God, and love thy neighbor as thyself. All of the laws and prophets are true on the authority of these two commandments"'

'Jesus said "If the Fathers kingdom is in the sky, the birds will precede you; if the kingdom is in the sea, the fish will precede you; instead the kingdom is inside you and all around you"'

'Jesus said "The wise, old man will not hesitate to ask the young child about our place in life, for the first will be last, and all are one."'

The parables in the New Testament are also wonderful and full of value for each and every moment of living.

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@Israelite007,

Thanks Didymos.

Quote:

You say "Christianity is not that[/t] practical", which seems to compare Christianity's practicality with some other tradition, presumably Judaism. And I object to the idea that any faith tradition is necessarily more or less practical than another.

Why do you object to a statement such as this?

Quote:

Some traditions work better for different people. If your new found faith works for you, bless you on your path. That said, I've read many of your posts and threads on this forum. This shift, this new found criticism of the value of Christian teaching is a huge departure from your previous claims, a departure that seems extreme. Thus, I have some concerns that much of this shift is spiritual materialism.

Okay I give you most of that but what is spiritual materialism? I do not understand what you mean as I have never heard this term before.

What I am talking about daily practices like

communal prayers
blessings
keeping commandments

these are the practices that are day to day what you speak of friend seems to me as being vogue. yes these may be apart of Judaism but like my theory says religion should be practical. That's why I left Christianity friend because it's not practical enough.

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@Israelite007,

Quote:

Why do you object to a statement such as this?

Because spiritual traditions will be as practical as you let them be. Granted, one might make more sense to you over another, but this does not mean that one spiritual traditional is necessarily more practical than another.

All people are different. 'Different strokes for different folks'. Each tradition has value - each tradition has good teaching.

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Okay I give you most of that but what is spiritual materialism? I do not understand what you mean as I have never heard this term before.

'Spiritual materialism' is mostly found in modern Buddhist literature. It is clinging to ego on your spiritual path. If I am hoping and working for 'my salvation' and not 'salvation', this is spiritual materialism.

A common symptoms are shifts from deep devotion in one thing to deep devotion in another. When we are deeply devoted we are convinced that our path is the one of understanding and truth and this point we vehemently defend; the next day we have rejected our previous path in favor of some new and improved truth giving, understanding cultivating path. Instead of developing some understanding, we place all of our faith in the ritual and theology expecting all the answers. We are at this point too concerned with saying things about "I" to find any real truth.

Again, this all assumes another point - that all faith traditions have good teachings. Every tradition offers a map to the top of the mountain; if you are a good hiker you might take the steep slope, while I might take the winding trail to the top, but we are both going to the same place and can get their on our paths. If you are particularly blessed, you might blaze your own trail to the top.
We would be silly to run halfway up one path, turn around to the base of the mountain only to run halfway up another trail, and then back down to pick yet another trail.

Myself, I like to study all of the maps. I'm the guy standing around debating over which ice cream to get - they're all good, I should just pick one, or in our case, practice. Smile

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these are the practices that are day to day what you speak of friend seems to me as being vogue. yes these may be apart of Judaism but like my theory says religion should be practical. That's why I left Christianity friend because it's not practical enough.

What, then, do you think 'practical' would be? If by practical you mean useful in our daily lives, the advice in those words are worth more than communal recitation of prayer or blessings, and one of those explains the very value of keeping the commandments - to love God and love your neighbor as yourself.

Practical is something we can use. Let me get the exact quotations so that my ugly versions do not get in the way:

Quote:

34Hearing that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, the Pharisees got together. 35One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question: 36"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" 37Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' 38This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' 40All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."

Jesus reminds us that the commandments are not simply a matter of ritual - that you should refrain from working on the Sabbath on authority. Instead, we should take the take for a reason - to love God, and love our neighbor. So that we might have time to practice these things, even if we must work the rest of the week to survive and provide perhaps for a family, ect. How often do people spend Sunday watching football, playing video games, ect? Instead we should practice and help people.

You should not covet because to covet some thing is to lose focus on what is really important - loving God, and loving your neighbor. How often do we go to the mall and buy things we don't need. We could have instead donated our money to a homeless shelter, and spent our time in practice instead of wasting time at the mall eating wretched food.

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3. Jesus said, "If your leaders say to you, 'Look, the (Father's) kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they say to you, 'It is in the sea,' then the fish will precede you. Rather, the (Father's) kingdom is within you and it is outside you.

The Kingdom of God is for the here and now. So often we worry of some future time, the Messiah, ect, when we should be concerned with being the best we can now. It is easy to think 'ah, when X happens, everything will be perfect' - this is a mistake. Things are better when we are better, loving in intentions and actions.

These teachings instruct and enlighten our actions and intentions. That is very the nature of being practical.

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@Israelite007,

I'm going to tear this one apart...bear with me please, I mean no offense.

Israelite007 wrote:

Greetings my fellow men and women may all of G-d's blessings be upon you this day.

Why do you censor the word "God"?
Just curious about that, since I've been meaning to ask.

Quote:

Today's theory is ."Religion has got to be practical." and our study of "Practicality of some major religions." Make no mistake it's not "which religion here is better than the other?" Because both have their strong points and that would be mind numbing but "Which religion here is more practical?"

So I am keeping in mind that this topic is about who has the best religion, but the fact that religion - no matter which one you choose - is practical.

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G-d has been so good to me and blessed me with many awesome and amazing things. (mainly spiritual not physical) One which I believe is the truth. The truth folks is a dieing breed few are less than concerned that they may be in error in the wrong or on the wrong path. I have been wrong but I assure you that I want what is right.

I'm personally going to replace "G-d" with "My chosen divine entity or spiritual leader" since I may or may not believe in God.
I will name him John for the sake of simplicity, and not to infer any specific belief on the reader.
So far, John has given me a good life, 3 children, a loving wife and another son on the way. Understanding John has kept me spiritual, faithful and honest. Believing in John has allowed me to have an indomitable willpower. I believe john to be the truth, since John has given me these things and the only thing I have had to do is a few simple things he has asked of me.

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How can I say it lightly? Well let's say this anybody who is anybody thinks "they're right" I will even go as so far as you might have to be crazy to think you're always wrong. it's just apart of our science. Nothing wrong with that I suppose.

Nothing wrong with that at all. However there is no reason to believe that anyone who thinks they are always wrong would be crazy. They could simply have a very open mind, and realize that there is a chance that no matter what their own answers may be...somebody else may have a better answer.

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The course of truth is prevailed by those who are determined to find answers. For instance my brother told me the other day "you look for something hard enough you are going to find it." He is very right I have sought very hard for G-d's will and you know what? I found it, case and point.

You stated you were looking for the truth in one instance, yet a breath later you said you were looking for John's will.
You weren't looking for the truth. You were looking for something specific and found what you perceived to be the truth in it, because that is what you wanted to see.

Quote:

I have yet again left Christianity once and for all because of this main reason which many may not recognize or admit.

Since you state that this thread is "religion's gotta to be practical", then I will surmise that Christianity was not for you, because you found it impractical.

Quote:

Figure 1
Christianity to me is just not that practical here's the figure

There are 5 main day to day practices to the christian faith
The normal christian reads the bible
The normal christian attends church
The normal christian prays
The normal christian tithes
The normal christian evangelizes

The normal Christian reads the bible, attends church, and prays...this is in accordance with John's law as all faiths would ask of their followers. It only makes sense.
Some beliefs would have you meditate on philosophy, self-awareness or self-consciousness instead of prayer, but the imagery is typically the same, and so is the result.

Tithes are something that are typical only to those organized religions that are seeking profit.
Monks, Buddhists, Jews, Jehovah's Witnesses, and many other faiths do not tithe. I remember somewhere in the bible however that Jesus said to Peter (maybe Paul?) before sending him on a evangelical journey that he should not accept "silver, silks, nor staff for the word of God, since the word of God is given freely therefore should be received freely." (sic)
Evangelizing is for those same faiths, but not all.

Just because I cry to the town does not mean I cry the truth.

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Now all of you should agree that these are the essential principles to the christian walk. I know from experience and research and observation

[/B]For the "Christian walk" they may be, but you mention Religion in your topic, not Christianity.

Quote:

Now that shouldn't surprise any of you however I am going to use the same principles with some numbers and this will if not should shock you. These are not 100% actual or authentic but through study, statistic and self-experiment

Then we should remember not to hold you accountable for any lost souls. Wink

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The average christian reads the bible 30min a day or 4 hrs a week (some don't read that often) (the average atheist has read more than the average christian)

(Know thine enemy.)

Quote:

The average christian attends church once a week for about 1-2 hours (some more so but that's okay too if they are occupied with events and such but not necessary)
The average christian prays 7-10 minutes a day
The average christian tithes 10% or at least they should
The average christian evangelizes once a year for a few hours or more maybe even a day straight or a missionary trip for a week (for good measure you know unless you are some kind of preachor or minister this is normal though)

Now if we total up these average figures the average christian is practicing their faith and you can count these too over the course of one week
1.4 hours bible study a week
2. 2 hours church a week
3. 1hr 10 min prayer a week
4. 10% tithe=10% of our time to earn it of a 40 hour week = 4 hours a week
5. one-three days of annual evangelism on a average 8 hour a day witness equals around 24 hours a year or also 15 minutes a day to 1hour 46 minutes a week
The grand total for the average christian of practicing their faith is.....
a whopping 14 hours a week!!!

To practice any faith is to live it as your lifestyle through dedication and sacrifice, not a pittance of 14 hours a week to feed your guilt.

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What the? This is pitiful I just can't stomach it. I am guilty of these figures and maybe even less that the above proposal

Yet you are aware, and accept it, which is more than most who claim to be true to their faith.

Quote:

Now just think you have 24 hours in one day
168 hours in one week and according to the above numbers most don't even spend 10% of their time and energy practicing their faith! This is sad to top it off most of us are wrecthed in sin!

if 30% of our time is sleeping time, then the number is actually 15% of our time being true to John.

Quote:

No wonder the churches are like graveyards!
No wonder the worship is so lukewarm!
no wonder the churches are 10,000s to keep you all awake!
No wonder the world calls us hypocrites!
No wonder we don't practice what we preach!

They're like graveyards because people are not being held in fear by the church like they used to be 50 years ago.
No wonder is right...you're on to something here for sure.

Quote:

This is the main reason why Christianity is not enough for me anymore, sure it is enough for most people or even too much. I do not hate christians this is just the way the religion is made up. I am presenting you with a case of this perspective that "Christianity is just not that practical"

But is religion?

Quote:

That's a fact! Well at least here anyhow.

So what the alternative? Ever since I became a Christian raised a christian supported christianity I was still paralyzed by something and I kept searching and searching for "practical appliance of my faith" I do not hate christians I am just saying most of them are all very nice people however Not one Christian could ever give me a straight solid answer "How should I live my daily life"

With the love of John in your heart and on your lips, because John is the one who gave you everything, and John can surely take it away on a whim. Please him, because he loves you and he deserves your love.

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I asked but no one knew They were mostly clueless someone said "write a journal" so i did and it took me to where I am at......out of christianity. I went back to the church by persuasion by my parents shame on me. I was trying to please them well I can't do that anymore either I please G-d or my parents but it can't be both because the Christian faith is their whole life. and this is where it gets hard to part ways with loved ones for the sake of true love but there is hope in religion.

Perhaps you should have done it for yourself, not your parents, and perhaps you should have asked someone who was not a "Christian"

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One word Judaism. That's the answer that I found plagued my spirit with despair. Now I am not saying that I am a jew because I will not be accepted as an authentic jew because of my belief in Yashua who is mankind's atonement I am saying Judaism as a daily practice.

As a daily practice?
Then what else would you define as being Jewish?
John should accept you as you are, not who you were not born as...he doesn't run an exclusive club, for white anglo-protestants (for example only, don't read into it, because their's nothing to read into) only and the rest be damned, you know.

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It's fantastic! My heart's desire! Keeping G-d's commandments that's a daily practice you bet! Most Christians don't believe in the Torah but Judaism teaches it as a daily practice this is what I longed and what I found G-d is very good to give me the desires of my heart. The average synagogue is in service on sabbath 12 hours on sabbath day from dusk to dawn the average jew spends more time practicing their faith in one day than a christian may walk out their faith all week, this is the way it should be religion as a daily event a daily practice to make it complete. Just ask any jew there's alot more going on than just visting the synagogue they're practicing daily! that's practical!

So is John.
And I think of John every moment I'm awake.

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Please read carefully I am not saying Christianity is all wrong I am saying it's just not that practical we are on pathways to the Almighty in different religions so whoever is righteous let him speak before G-d and make his case plain as G-d casts his perfect judgement on us.

But John does not judge. He lets man judge for themselves, and their actions define who they are and how others judge them. But that may be untrue. John may judge us as we are born, he may judge us as we die, or he may not exist, therefore not able to judge us because all we really have is who we are right now.

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What do you think?

I think religion is a practical way of living a healthy lifestyle, regardless who you believe John to be.

If John is Buddha and you follow Buddha's teachings to death, then you have lived a fulfilling life according to John.
If John is Yawe, and you follow Yawe's teachings to death, then you have lived a fulfilling life according to John.
If John is Jehovah and you follow Jehovah's teachings to death, then you have lived a fulfilling life according to John.
If John is your mother and you follow your mother's teachings to death, then you have lived a fulfilling life according to John.

If John is your own personal idea and you follow your own personal teachings to death, then you have lived a fulfilling life according to John.

That is what I think.
I also think it's practical.
Do you think religion is practical?

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@Israelite007,

Didymos hey uh maybe you misunderstood me or I didn't make myself better understood of this topic so let me make it said please.

Just like you can win a convert to Christianity from Judaisim is just like any person can convert to Judaism from Christianity. I am no longer following the Christian creed, doctrine, or lifestyles, you are suggesting that I practice both Chrisitianity and Judaism that to me is Spiritual materialism if I am practicing a whole lot of religions to suit my own ego it's like someone saying "Im a christian" another says "well I'm a Jew." and yet another says with pomp "I'm both" there is something seriously wrong with that because I practiced both for a while and I feel into this trap of feeding my ego as I thought myself better than both that's why I decided better to convert.

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Jumping from tradition to tradition - moving in to one, only to abandon it for another, and then another - this smacks of spiritual materialism. If within the Christian tradition there is valuable spiritual teaching - be a Christian. If within the Jewish tradition there is valuable spiritual teaching -
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be a Jew as well.
And so on for every tradition. If the teaching is valuable, make that teaching part of your own spiritual heritage

Didymos maybe I don't give it enough credit for what it is worth but for the record I will say this "Christianity may very well be a pathway to G-d I'm not saying it isn't after all it is based on the Bible." However I don't not endorse by any means this desitute of "Modern Christianity" this is what I speak of and it is abominable.

To define Modern Christianity it is more about the modern worshipper and less about worship (outward actions like raising hands singing but not praising from the heart)
More about the Christian and less about Christ " I here more Christians talk about "their christianity or how they are a chrsitian and less about their Messiah."
More about worshipping the lamb of G-d than G-d himself.
More about living according to Paul than according to G-d's word (his commandments)
More about living like christianity and less living like Messiah
More like the world and less like G-d
Look all the same that's just a shame (we are set apart as G-d's children)

Now Didymos if you are talking about traditional christianity then yes it is much more practical but in our day in age Traditional has been replaced for the "new look of modernism" this is the evil one's doing no doubt. Get out of modern christianity it is adbmonible.

Aristoddler well you certainly picked it apart I must say. to answer your question I use
"G-d" because I use the word GOD alot and I hallow his name according to his Torah this is just one way of doing that.

Yes you have a vaild point about this character "john" however I don't serve myself as my name is jonathan. I serve the GOD of heaven and earth the King of the Universe blessed be his name on high. The GOD of Israel and Sovern Ruler over all mankind. He dwells in Heaven he reigns on High. The Mighty Elohim the Sacred Adonai. His name be praised his way is perfect he knows everything he knows all our secrets. The GOD I serve is the only Living G-d who was and is and is to come. What little words I have to describe does not make him who he is, it is he who makes who I am. I don't define him he defines me. He is absolute I am only resolute what little can my words mean?

This is not the same as the christian trinity god JC. it is not a god I made up by some belief either. My belief is based on the Torah and the true messiah. This may not just be a religion for me it's a way of life to be in relation to the Living G-d who gives me breath who created the heart. He should be greatly feared~Men may destroy my earthly body demons may attack my heart and spirit and try to take my life but who can defy the G-d who created the heart of man is not he the one who knows it the best? Should we not fear him and not man since man did not even create his own body? Should we not fear him and not dark spirits who have no power over our destiny?

I realized this the other day as I am plagued by dark spirits sometimes they attack me in our realm. Usually I get sacred by the noises and the things i see but then I realized something is holding them back...something greater. I realized while they were attacking me to make me afraid that my heart was beating and beating and beating I fear G-d because no matter what comes my way he put my heart in my body and made my flesh what little can man do? what little can darkness do? did not he who made the dark become master of it? Did not he who fashioned the heart master it? He is master of our hearts his is the Kingdom and the Glory forever Amen. I'll leave you all with that for now.

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@Israelite007,

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Didymos hey uh maybe you misunderstood me or I didn't make myself better understood of this topic so let me make it said please.

Okay - good idea.

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Just like you can win a convert to Christianity from Judaisim is just like any person can convert to Judaism from Christianity.

Absolutely. I suppose part of my criticism is the outright "conversion", because I think every faith tradition has a great deal of value and can be practical. We might find more value in one tradition over another, but to abandon one faith in favor of other is both harmful and dangerous. Harmful, because when we outright convert, we often drop any good teaching from our previous faith. Dangerous, because we begin to place too much significance on being of this faith or that, and lose sight of what is truly important - trreating other people as well as we can.

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I am no longer following the Christian creed, doctrine, or lifestyles,

But creed, doctrine and lifestyle can vary widely depending on what we think "Christian" means. There so many denominations.
Instead of focusing on "Christian" or "Jewish" or this or that, I think focusing on the teachings, and the value of the teaching (how they help you), would be wiser.

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you are suggesting that I practice both Chrisitianity and Judaism

I'm sorry. I guess I was not as clear as I could have been. I'm suggesting that both faiths have value, and that there is no reason to ignore and abandon the value of one in favor of the value in another when we can find value in both.

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to me is Spiritual materialism if I am practicing a whole lot of religions to suit my own ego it's like someone saying "Im a christian" another says "well I'm a Jew." and yet another says with pomp "I'm both" there is something seriously wrong with that because I practiced both for a while and I feel into this trap of feeding my ego as I thought myself better than both that's why I decided better to convert.

You are right to worry over spiritual materialism when we look at multiple faiths. We do not want to be, as it were, walking down the aisle, picking up this prayer, that garb, ect just because they suite our ego.

Instead, we should study the teachings of the faith (every faith), and keep what is valuable to us. If one of Jesus' parables really speaks to you, but you consider yourself Hindu - so what?

Perhaps this would be helpful - write a list of things you have learned from Christianity which helped you (you have made many posts here discussing the value of Christianity, so I assume you see some value in the tradition), and then a list of things which help you from Judaism.

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Now Didymos if you are talking about traditional christianity then yes it is much more practical but in our day in age Traditional has been replaced for the "new look of modernism" this is the evil one's doing no doubt. Get out of modern christianity it is adbmonible.

I'm talking about the Christian tradition. There does not exist a faith tradition in the world without silly practitioners or skeletons in the closet. What I argue is that none of that should matter - what should matter are the teachings what the teachings do for you; every tradition has valuable teaching.

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@Didymos Thomas,

I think you take the Christian rules a bit to strict. Those are the rules, but as we know many people don't play by the rules.

I never really cared for the God character. I was always busy with other things. I however prayed till i was 14, it was at that age that i started to stop believing in God. And i still am an Agnostic (non believer, but not excluding the possibility of a God) to this day.

I personally just like you never found religion practical. I never understood why God would hear to my babbling before i go to sleep. I never understood who god wanted me to go to church. I did not doubt everything in the bible until i was older though. I never knew why actually. Before i went Agnostic i saw God as something (or someone if you wish to humanize him) that knew i was there and saw it was good. I did not want to bother him with my babbling.

I completely understand why people pray and it is mostly because you can say anything you want to this "person above you" whether he is real or not. You can take all the weight off your shoulders and let God carry it. However you don't necessarily need God for that it is still good to have a God known all over the world and many people to talk about him and his book.

I still think religion should be practically, but what is practical for you is not practical for me. My advice; if you want to keep on believing in God; do it in your own way. If you want to pray to him, pray to him. If you want to read the bible read the bible. If you don't want to do any of those things, just don't do them and believe in God. I think that is the best way to honor him if you believe in God.

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@Israelite007,

'Blaspheme the father and you shall be forgiven. Blaspheme the son and you shall be forgiven. Blaspheme the holy spirit and you shall not be forgiven in heaven or in earth'

Whatever we think of the father and son, the holy spirit is of primary importance. Stay honest with yourself, and the rest shall follow accordingly.

And if that is not practical, I do not know what is.

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@Didymos Thomas,

Didymos Thomas wrote:

Whatever we think of the father and son, the holy spirit is of primary importance. Stay honest with yourself, and the rest shall follow accordingly.

Guess we Jews are ok, then -- because without believing in a "son" there is no concept of "father". So maybe all we believe in is what Christians call the Holy Spirit.

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@Aedes,

If you ask me, we are all the 'children of God' - you and I are both the sons of God. The son of God, Jesus, is one of our brothers who happens to be insightful.

We might debate about the father, or the mother if you like, and maybe you're not too keen on the 'son of God'; none of this should matter. What should matter is the Holy Spirit - love and compassion.

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@Didymos Thomas,

Didymos Thomas wrote:

If you ask me, we are all the 'children of God' - you and I are both the sons of God.

This has been one idea among some Jewish philosophers in the post-Holocaust period, in evaluating the idea of 'sacrifice'. Primo Levi, who was a Holocaust survivor, famously said that in the Holocaust there were 6 million Christs. I take that to mean that all of the victims were children of God, and all of them sacrificed themselves for the sins and evils of the world. (Though for me, with all 4 of my grandparents having survived the camps, I look at the survivors in that light as well -- because it's not like their sacrifice ended with liberation -- it goes on to this day).

Thus, I can see how it might be possible for a Christian (and I'm not Christian, so take this with a grain of salt) to look at the story of Jesus as purely allegorical (irrespective of the historical elements), and see his divinity and sacrifice as a statement about humanity and not about a single solitary avatar of God.

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@Israelite007,

I think if "Christians" were willing to take their noses out of the KJV for a moment, and spend some time with apocryphal literature like the Gospel of Thomas (the source of the above quote) , they might be more open to the allegorical significance of the story of Jesus' trial and death, and not be so concerned with silly things - like taking Revelations literally.

The kingdom of God is not for "Christians" - it is for all the children of God. Less dogma, more love. Less judgment, more dialog.

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@Didymos Thomas,

Why did you choose the name Didymos Thomas?

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@Israelite007,

The opening line to the Gospel of Thomas should provide some direction in answering that question.

I suppose I could have gone with any of the other names I use and have used on forums in the past, but when I signed up here I decided to go with something new.

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@Didymos Thomas,

Do you remember what happened between Thomas and Jesus when he appeared to them?

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@Israelite007,

Do you mean in Chapter 20 from the Gospel of John? Yes.

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@Israelite007,

Didymos thanks for once again assisting my perceptions on religion. I will take a new stand now on Judaism and Christianity....I will embrace them both because they are both apart of my teaching and learning like you said I just don't practice them both that is the contention. Thanks for your help ever so much may we continue to seek out truth and your input is appreciated!

You have helped me to realize this. That even though I don't practice Christianity doesn't mean I shouldn't support it and I found myself finding fault and saying one religion is better than another which you pointed out if they are both pathways to the mountain as you say then I shouldn't start over So I will take what I learned from both and live accordingly. I should value christianity and will stop talking of it so abusively.

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'Religion's gotta be practical'

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