No Religion Know GOD

Israelite007

If your going to use the writings of St. John, then explain this:

Jn:1: KJV
1: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2: The same was in the beginning with God.
3: All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4: In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5: And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.


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Maybe you should consider this:

God, the Almighty is a Spirit that speaks His will. His will is revealed through His Word, and His Spirit does it. Therefore all is said and done according to His Will. Note Jesus made it clear that it was His Fathers Will that He served. According to the Gospel of John Jesus is that Word of God revealed in the flesh.
If you remember that it is written that man was made in God's image. Man has a will, that is made known through his speech and if it is in his power he can do it. If a man does what he says, Without fail, it is considered by others that his word is good. And can be relied upon. So it is with our relationship with the Word of God.

If you give your word you must keep it. God keeps the Word He gives. God the Father the will of which the Son, the Word of God given in the flesh, revealing the will of His Father, full of the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of God. None are separate from the other, but revealed to us as God.

No different then:
"And the Spirit of God"(the Holy Spirt, God's Presents)" moved upon the face of the waters."
" And God said,"(the Word of God)" Let there be light"(the revealed Will of God via His Word)": and there was light."
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Or maybe this:

First is God The Father that which all things are from, even His Word.
If we look at ourselves, in knowing that we are created in His image. This is not to say that two arms, two legs, and a head is that image. For what ever configuration of bone and flesh the Lord saw fit for us, would not change that we are mankind.
As in the trinity, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. There is The Father from which all that there is, is from. The Son, His Word, the Truth the Way the Life the Voice of the Lord, the first from the Father. And the Holy Spirt by which all the will of the Almighty is done. Thus the trinity in one.
The source of the expression that will be executed, the expression of the source that will be executed, and the execution according to the expression of the source.
As in the image of God, mankind can come up with an idea, express that idea, and do it. That is how we govern ourselves, make bridges, make movies, fly to the moon, find the short cut to work, and solve the plumbing problem with the toilet. Each individual soul is one in three parts that differentiates mankind from any other Life manifesting organism in the earth. Things like the heart, mind, and body accommodate this ability for mankind.
Second is God The Son, His Word, made manifest in the flesh as Jesus the Christ who proclaimed God His Father many times. The Word of God is from God, a part of God, and is God. Just as your word, is from you, a part of you, and is you.
His Word is Truth for if He speaks it, it will be. The Almighty cannot lie for if He speaks it. It will be. Through His Word is that which all may know Him and all of creation obeys Him. For the Truth is the Truth no matter what the Truth is.
Whether all mankind is aware of it, or not. It is still the Truth.
Third is the Holy Spirit or Spirit Of God, which moved upon the face of the waters, sealing us unto our salvation, and pretty much executes the will of God the Father after He speaks it. The Father Speaks, the Spirit moves, and it is so. According to science community after the big bang all was like dust. So it is possible that all matter and space where at rest or evenly balanced like as if all the air on earth was the same temperature with even amount of humidity and pressure. Then The Spirit moved on the face of the deep. Like a
block of molding clay. There it is, God makes stuff happen, according to what He said.



All revelation of God to His creation is through His Word. Therefore the only Way to know God is through His Word, now revealed in the flesh as Jesus the Christ. The only Way to know God.

Thanks Dp for your compelling arguement. I have thought about this and thank you for your response. I wanted to address your concern. Please understand that what I have to say is as filtered as possible.

Jn:1: KJV
1: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (For centuries, a poor translation of John 1:1, as well as a misunderstanding of biblical usage for the word "god," has caused millions to wrongly believe in the trinity. In most Bibles, John 1:1 reads "In the beginning was the Word, and the word was with God, and the Word was God." This scripture is the cornerstone of Trinitarian creed. The first argument in refuting this interpretation is an appeal to common sense. How could the Word be with God and be God at the same time? If the point here was to say that the Word was God, why bother saying that he was with him? Would not the passage more likely read (In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was in all things God?) The very word structure of this passage provides strong evidence for mistranslation.

2: The same was in the beginning with God.(I'm not sure I understand why this is relevant?)
3: All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. (For this reference The writings of the Apostle John tells us that "All things were made THROUGH him, (Jesus) and without him nothing was made that was made." (John 1:3) The majority of translations use the word "through," which is wrongly translated in the original King James Bible as "all things were made by him." If all things were made through him, this indicates that he was carrying out orders that had been delegated by a higher authority. Jesus acted as Jehovah's agency and is the one who dealt directly with mankind in the Old Testament.)
4: In him was life; and the life was the light of men. (Jesus was given the power of Life at his resurrection by conquering death)
5.still working on that one.

If you are backing the Trinity I just want to say that this thelogy never made sense to which lead me on a search for these scriptures....to diffuse the church doctrine of the Trinity

"DO NOT CLING TO ME, FOR I HAVE NOT YET ASCENDED TO MY FATHER, BUT GO TO MY BRETHREN AND SAY TO THEM, I AM ASCENDING TO MY FATHER AND YOUR FATHER, AND TO MY GOD AND YOUR GOD."JOHN 20:17

"THESE THINGS SAYS THE AMEN, THE FAITHFUL AND TRUE WITNESS, THE BEGINNING OF THE CREATION OF GOD." REVELATION 3:14

"THE FATHER IS GREATER THAN I" JOHN 14:28

As I was saying in the post Jesus is the Son of God or the Arm of God please consider these verses for the arm of God (Jesus) Here's the reference

Isaiah 59:16 (New International Version) 16 He saw that there was no one he was appalled that there was no one to intervene; so his own arm worked salvation for him, and his own righteousness sustained him

Isaiah 52:10 The LORD will lay bare his holy arm
in the sight of all the nations,
and all the ends of the earth will see
the salvation of our God.

Isaiah 40:10 See, the Sovereign LORD comes with power,
and his arm rules for him.
See, his reward is with him,
and his recompense accompanies him. Hopefully these will help support my belief of God with No Religion

If you believe that Jesus is the Son of God, the Promised One.
Then you believe that Jesus is Lord.
If you believe that Jesus is Lord.
Then who is the Lord your God Israelite?

"the Lord your God " can be found at lest 80 times in the law given by the hand of Moses.

And yes there is no religion in the Kingdom of God. Jesus is not a religion (though many say He is, but He never said He is a religion) Jesus is The Truth The Way and The Life of the Living God (God's Word) given unto mankind. In the flesh which was risen, and now sits at the right hand of the Father. Therefore, "Arm", the prophecy of thereof, fulfilled.

as far as trinity, He, Jesus, the Word of God, said:
Mt:28:19: Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Just because you may not understand how the trinity could be, does not mean it is not so. Only God can reveal Heaven to us, no one else.

this may help on trinity:
Abraham the father who sacrificed his son Isaac and the third Jacob named Israel who wrestled with God had 12 that all the children of Israel where of. Sound familiar?

The Lord my God is One. The Father of Heaven named Yahweh. Jesus was called Lord in the Bible but if you read back through the post God the Father gave authority to the Son as "Ruler" in Isaiah. It is clearly stated. I know where all the confusion lies. Jesus is not God! Jesus is Lord in the Bible but he is not called God in the Bible because Lord just means he is the ruler but if you look back in my post God appointed his Arm to "Rule" the Nations so does make him God? No I say no it makes him Lord. There is just no logic in the supposed Trinity 3 Gods equal one God. If you look back in history the Catholic Church actually created the idea of a Trinity so if people are to suggest it and against the Catholic Church isn't that hypocrisy? But of course that would make me a Heretic in the eyes of a Church. Fine. Better me a Heretic to a Church than a hypocrite to God. The Trinity is false and all those who follow 3 gods are not in a good position with God I believe. Look at the first commandment. No other gods before me. Jesus is a god to christians, that is idolatry if I am not mistaken.

I had a hard time understanding your explanation of the Trinity....
Please read what I wrote it's all pretty forward. My case is for the truth. Have you seen the new movie Elizabeth? I suggest it. It's pretty boring but has some interesting history on Christianity. Maybe you don't know how dark it is? Are you aware of the inquisition? Would God really command people to kill in his name if people didn't choose his supposed true religion? NO! It's freedom of choice! That's my God-given right. It's Satan's will for death not God's.

God created Spiritual beings not Religious Beings so why do people provocate religious ideals and goals to some means to and end which just creates confusion and death? In the bible satan is the author of lies and confusion but all religion has some confusion & death! What does that say!!

This is an example of what religion does to people. This is from the view of a Christian. "religion is universal, man is a religious animal" Man is a religious animal? Did he really say that?No what needs to stop is religion entirely! unfortunately i could not email my findings of truth because they did not list their email contact on the website.

Christians have the idea that God lives in a Church I believe God lives in me after all he created me and gives me breath so that I may speak. Have you read this in Revelation Dpmartin? It's beautiful it speaks about my point exactly.
The New Jerusalem
Revelation 21:22 "I did not see a temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple." It goes then without saying the Church is not itself above the Throne of the Mighty One and should be done away with. Let it be said, so that I sowed the seed of Truth and reaped the Harvest of Love.

Your post immediately struck me as someone who is "awakening". I say awakening because it is a slow process for me and i believe for others as well. I try to remember that when one is awakening we are still subject to the "dream state" and the illusions of it. This dream state can also be thought of as the "darkness" and the "blindness".

Please do not take offense at what i say as i too am subject to the things of which i speak. Recognizing this, in my opinion, is the first step to being able to do something about it.


I see this "darkness" as the blindness that i see all around me. Blindness to what the bibles true meanings are, blindness to what motivates people and themselves, blindness to the great deception which begins with how we all deceive ourselves from early on about nearly everything.

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Isaiah 10-11:
10 For the LORD hath poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep, and hath closed your eyes: the prophets and your rulers, the seers hath he covered.
11 And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed:

I believe this "deep sleep" in 10 is the darkness and "blindness" i talk about. In 11 i think it may refer to what i speak of lower in this reply under "a house divided". I also believe the bible is "sealed" in this way and most do not understand it. I also think it refers to ourselves and how we do not truly understand our motives or ourselves and therefore cannot understand what the bible is trying to teach us.
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I see this as god saying that the god people "think" they know and worship is not the one he has been trying to teach. The one most people think of is a fabrication of many things and a lie which many churchs have built upon and exploit for power or have succumbed to self deception about the truth. A truth which i have yet to fully realize myself but am seeking... therefore i should eventually find.

I personally believe that this passage is critical. I believe it is a clue that man does not understand gods language (for lack of a better word). I think this is an indication of how god communicates with us. He uses things we have learned or can relate to as forms of communication. I don't believe he uses pure language since language is completely inneffective as a form of perfect communication. In other words, he uses words from say a song along with causing you to recall a certain event or experience or series of them all at once to relay a much more detailed "experience od meaning" that no language of just words could ever relate. Of course i did not come to this conclusion based purely on this passage... like i said, it's a clue.

I have often asked my wife how she can believe in something that she has allowed others to interpret for her. The interpretations i see are scary and painful as you said and not being taught by any church i have found. A major problem i have with christianity is that whether they admit it or not, they are waiting for a saviour when i believe it is meant for each of us to become a saviour... in a manner of speaking.

Have to disagree there. Congress voted authorizing the war in Iraq based on the intel presented which indicated a pre-emptive action to remove a perceived near future threat was prudent. I know many people like to blame the evil Bush but it was dems and reps that voted for the war... as well as getting it sanctioned by the world body of the UN... not just the president. People have very selective memories.[/rant].

I differ on this point as well. I do not have all the answers however i believe that the book of revelations is not about a 10 or even a 100 year portion of time... at least one layer of the meaning anyway. I think it may very well be something every human experiences throughout a lifetime and many facets of it have been going on for several thousand years and in many incarnations.

Not debating the validity of Paul which is irrelevent to my following point. The truth I have come to understand is that we are all deceived to such an extent that you, i and everyone else is hopelessly lost in this shroud of darkness to such a point that we commit sins without even the consciousness of doing so. Ignorance is one reason but the main reason is self deception and there is no greater deceiver than oneself.

The old law that the new testament did away with (law of moses) had people making sacrifices and performing rituals in an attempt to atone for these sins. However, this locked them into a never ending cycle of guilt and non satifying and innefectual pennance which only reinforced their feeling of helplessness and their sense of being unable to change. I believe the biggest change between old law and new law is that the new law attempts to make people see that you are not what you were yesterday. We make ourselves what we are with every action in the present. You are what you do and not what you were... yes, you can become a better person than what you were.

I think you've completely missed the points being made here and not just the ones you brought up. The first refference to LAW is about the jewish law. I do not believe for one second that even the majority of the old law is actually gods law. It is mans version of gods law mixed with a lot of mans bias's and manipulations thrown in as well. Imo, what he refers to as "Gods Law" and Christs law are both different from the law of the jews which they preach as gods law when in fact it is not.

You yourself have already stated that "all religion is wrong" yet then you seem to find it a contradiction that Paul is saying that Jewish law is not the same as gods law.

The reason is that most people in my opinion have misunderstood the entire Bible, the words of Jesus is no exception.

"I am the Son of God"... as are we all, whether you know it or not. Not saying that you can't become a woefully wayward son... ask Satan. Btw, he also said "i am the son of man".

"He is One with the Father (in direct contact)". This can be directly related to a couple people mentioned in genesis. "For he walked with god for ??? years and god took him". Paraphrased of course but i'm too tired to look up the exact names and number of years. Note, it doesnt say they died as it did with all the others in the lineage... "and god took him". Anyway, walked with god in my interpretation means that they were in nearly constant contact with the will of god and their every action reflected this fact. This is also what Jesus meant when he said "if you have seen me you have seen the father". In other words, he was doing the exact will of god so if you see jesus do something it's the same as if you saw god do it since he was merely the "puppet" (as another way of looking at it) of god.

Did he? Well, he may have died in the physical form but that does not mean the consciousness known as Jesus died. I am not saying jesus is god, i'm just pointing out the flaw in your logic. None of us can know 100% until we experience death if there is an afterlife. But for arguments sake lets say there is. Did "he" die... no, the car his soul was in was sent to the junkyard as the driver carried on by foot... so to speak. I am not saying jesus was real or if his commonly accepted message (i think they have a lot of it wrong) was actually true. What i am saying is that it is far too easy to get different interpretations from the bible which can make one think it contradicts itself... it doesnt, the wrong interpretation does.

Are my interpretations correct? I am not certain but one thing i do know, the bible is like an onion, it has many meanings and lessons even within the same sentence. What is truth for you in the bible is not the same truth for everyone nor was it meant to be. Jesus did say "what is a sin for you is not for another". One meaning is that if you believe it is a sin then for you... it is a sin. This can be abused but even if you lie to your conscious mind about something not being a sin, deep down you still feel it is so it is an ineffective way of trying to unsuccessfully make anything you desire ok.

I believe that most humans do not even understand themselves, their motives and the lies they have told themselves to justify thier lives and decisions as well as to comfort themselves from a nagging at the back of their minds.

When jesus said "forgive them father for they know not what they do" refers to what i am saying and goes far deeper than what most people think. How can anyone truly understand and love others when they do not even know themselves and hence can not truly love themselves?

I agree 100% that organized religions use scare tactics on the most basic of levels to achieve submission from the masses. I would counter them with how god disdains a coward. IMO one must challenge everything especially things one believes or has been conditioned to think will condemn you. When one can do this, i believe you will begin to see the truth which starts with honestly looking at oneself on the most painful levels.

The bible also says that "they law of moses is the way of death". Sorry, can't remember chapter and verse on that one. I believe what this meant is that adherence to the law which was written by man and supposedly translated from gods commandments is not the way. Man puts too much bias into anything he does as do you and as do i.

I believe gods commandments are referring to gods voice that comes from within each of us and NOT the commandments anyone else tells you is what god has said.

Actually it's 12,000 from each of the 12 tribes = 144,000. Just setting the record straight...

Would you please break this formula down to how you achieved each date and passages of time with each chapter and verse which you derived each portion from? I am open to and interested in this. Please also include any verse you believe anchors the beginning of the formula to the destruction of the temple.


I'm not debating this however i say do not do anything out of fear... period. Do not do anything because you "think" it's what jesus or anyone esle says it's what you should do and there will be dire consequenses for "disobeying". I say first look at yourself, understand misplaced motives, unrecognized faults in actions as well as self deceptions and other things that this will lead to. I call it "the burning mirror". Once a person has achieved a portion of this he will begin to not only see the truth but he will begin to see ways of living (some of which you describe) as the way he truly wants to behave... not because he is afraid of the consequences but because that desire comes from ones very deepest recesses of the soul.

I believe many of the worlds problems including drug and alchohol abuse to many other forms of mental illness is caused by ones mind denying these things and willfully following the wrong path that they (and i) have justified away with logic and science and other forms of analytical thinking.

"A house devided can not stand". One of the ways i interpret this is what i am talking about now. Deep down we all know some basic truths and higher desires of what we want to be, what we want others to be like and what we want the world to be like. From a very early age we are hurt when we see how wrong the world is and how "evil" it has become. This causes depression and a sense of hopelessness that in turn we use to justify giving up on trying to do what is really right and what is our deepest desires.

As we progress through life this conflict of what we are doing and what we should be doing tears apart our psyche making us the proverbial "house divided". In this torn condition we then lash out in many ways when it is inward we truly desire to lash at. Many of the things we suffer is caused by us in an attempt to subconciously punish ourselves. We also try to numb this pain in our soul with substances, sex, material possessions (to mention a few) all to no avail. The deeper we sink into this cyclic whirlpool pit of denial of ones true nature, the less we perceive what it is that is causing it all and we sink even farther. It truly can be a bottomless pit...

600, 60 and 6:
I am curious as to what you and others think the number of the beast is. I believe it like many things in the bible has layered meanings.

I believe one of the most significant meanings is found in how the number was structured in the writing of it. It's in a descending and lessening fashion. I believe this refers to analytical thought and Ockhams razor. The act of taking something much larger and trying to break it down something smaller we can easier understand. The problem arises when we think we can know the whole of 600 by simply understanding 6.

I believe this refers to science and from science... atheism. Most people fail to see that much of science takes as much "faith" as does belief in a god or a religion. They easily have faith that a theory with nothing more than analytical thought as fact. Take for example evolution. I do believe evolution to a point but i believe all of science is merely the study of the mechanics of gods will and does not eliminate god from the equation. I may be wrong but unlike science advocates i do not say "you're an idiot for beleiving in science and not creationism". Science says you must always have an open mind and only believe things through experimentation that you have confirmed. Funny how then they throw that under the bus as soon these rules are applied to science itself.

Conclusion:
I have no grand conclusion which sums up everything. Every time i thought i did the spirit or whatever you want to call it has slapped me around showing me how little i know and how easily i can deceive myself. It has also shown me that there is no one grand all encompassing truth which is the same for all of the creation. There are many truths that work together to form a larger whole but that whole i believe changes with the person and their purpose in life.

I have only reviewed and responded to your original post. I will read the replies between you and dpmartin later and possibly respond to some points made in them.

Well written and I agree
Israelite007, I agree with most everything you are saying as I too am on a similar journey. The differences is, I believe that we as man, are God's experience on earth just as a fetus in a womb experiences life through the mother carrying that fetus. We are not separate from God, we are the mind, thought, energy, love creation of God.

I like the way this is written and up until the first quoted paragraph I've agreed with what you are saying, yet I'm not disagreeing with your statement of the rapture. The problem with this statement is it creates a paradigm shift in a person to come from a position of fear due to the end days, when that's not it at all. The 2012 is spoken of is a hallmark in the spiritual unfolding of mankind an this entire universe. Due to the ability to communicate via the Internet. The understanding that everything is transferred electronically including the signals sent from within us.

My point is, are we living for the Rapture or are we living for the unfolding and Cosmic awareness of One Universe and One God? Shall we come from a position of Fear?... Or shall we come from a position of Love?



Losing Friends
I find it a tragedy to have lost all your friends. I've done this before as well, but why is it? I discovered that losing friends was because I was too busy trying to impose my own beliefs upon them to actually listen and get to know them. View them as a creation of Love and Beauty. To look past the faults... because we all have them. Accept them for who they are and start your journey with them from where they are and not where you'd expect them to be.

You cannot change anyone. It just isn't possible. However, you can provide an environment to inspire someone to change themselves.

Religions Instill Fear in Mankind
You spoke about war and what the Religions are doing... to some degree these paragraphs are doing the exact same thing. Religion is destructive... WHY? Because it builds fear in man and builds edifices between himself and God! Religion tells us of the end of times and warns us of such and teaches us of stuff. Fear GOD!... This message is no different.

Loving God means Loving those around you, even though they fall short of perfection... or what we think they should be. Loving God, as I have found is loving all of creation and most importantly loving oneself.

If we want to convince your friends that Religion isn't the way, the we must first convince ourselves enough to show our friends with our actions and spiritual growth. Imposing ones beliefs on another only pushes people away. However if one is comfortable with himself and sends out messages of love, that's when others will notice. Until then you're pissing in the wind while instilling fear rather than Love... thus we loose our friends.

Israelite007, up until the last two paragraphs quoted here, you had me all the way. I share your pain and agony and instinctively want to put my ego in the middle and push it on everyone I encounter. My experience has uncovered that the only thing in the way of us and God is our ego... ourselves. You've heard the phrase, "We are our own worst enemy". There's a lot of truth in that message.

Fear will darken our world and causes heartbeats to hasten and increased anxiety because of the negative perceptions of life. Our perceptions send out messages to our bodies as and thus create that which we fear the most.

However, I believe it's in living the truth and sending out that message to the people around you. Being an example, not scaring off all the neighbors and friends. The relationship starts within you and will shine like a great light. You will attract people and influence them rather than make them your enemies. God is about gains not losses. Love not fear. Peace not Hate. ... it's something to ponder.

You are Going to DIE
Think of it this way, you are going to die. The moment you were born into this physical life, death is but a moment away. Our physical life is rather meaningless in the spectrum of time already passed, and eternity ahead. Are you body or are you spirit?

Eternity is what it is all about. Spiritual, Energy, Love, Oneness, Creativity, Sharing, Caring and moving into the next step in the journey of spiritual unfolding. Your body is going to die anyway. Tomorrow your body may die in an accident, or you may jump and sacrifice your life to save a child. What difference does 2012 make?... Live for eternity.[INDENT]Doomsday is something perceived and prepared by those who are ultimately going to create it.
[/INDENT]You are truly on to something though. Your studies have been deep and well founded and what you've written here makes a lot of sense. However, when it comes to the end, you are sending out the message of fear which does not come from the Love of God or Yahweh.

Fear is a negative signal and once people begin to believe this, that energy is sent out from that and their thoughts will transform the world around them, to adapt to that fear and destruction. People will be preparing for the END OF TIMES rather than living for growth, productivity, peace and happiness. If enough people hop on this band wagon of Armageddon, we will eventually create just that.

My Thoughts
In summary, this is only my thoughts and perception. I have in no way mastered love or life but am experiencing through my thoughts and actions and viewing it in the physical form, and discovering along the way, I have created everything my own life, both the good and the bad.

God is about Love and Balance
We are and extension of God and are created by God. Mankind creates just as God creates with the exception that mankind has deceived itself into coming from a position of fear which cannot possibly create peace of mind and peace on earth. Fear breads fear and love breads love.

As we create our lifestyle, our friends, our family's, our jobs and basically the world around us, we also create disease and destruction. The point is, you and I and everyone else is personally creating their surroundings, situations and circumstances around us.

There are no circumstances, we simply create it with our thoughts and actions and when it comes back we call it a circumstance, either good or bad. Sometimes it comes in the form of a blessing... who knows.

To be a Watchman for God
What does this mean? Is God somewhere other than here where he sends people to watch?

By Definition, Watchman is "a person who keeps guard over a building at night, to protect it from fire, vandals, or thieves." In essence, this would mean that a watchman for God is trying to be a God? Why watch when we can start creating that in which we imagine?

If you want everyone to be aware of your message, they will know by the fruit that you bear. In that, they will come seeking and inquiring. Our job is not to be a watchman for God or join his army against evil. We need to conquer evil only by discovering the love inside our own homes and duplicating it throughout the world in our children and their friends and the people we encounter and the work that we do. Change isn't going to happen instantly and being a watchman reminds me of all these religions... watchmen.

Once we stop thinking that we are watchman for the almighty and toss aside our egos and begin to send out messages of love and balance, we will change all the negatives in our worlds to positives.

Look forward to your thoughts.

First thoughts
Wow TwighlightEyes & Justin I appreciate your candid replies. I am open to constructive criticism and you have very well intrigued into birthing truth & love.

You have both given very sound feedback and honest answers and I really needed to hear what ya'll had to say if you only knew. Just yesterday Justin I was like you say trying to impose my beliefs on others with enthusiasm and intrigue but I was missing something and you are right I am in a way instilling fear into people obeying (Which is what I am after) I felt like I was better than ever and telling old friends they need to let it all go "Fear Doubt & Disbelief" and I was just trying to free their minds. I do believe Twighlight that like you said scare tactics are used to conform the minds of innocent believers into falling in line. I don't fall in line if anything I break the line. I want to show people a world where fear dies and love rules a world where GOD is in control. The problem is I am no savior and no saint I just have a message I want to tell them.

Justin you far surpassed any responses I've had you must be a seeker. You don't know how many people have been completely brick-walled and blockaded when it comes to my beliefs. I love how you said I cannot change anyone for a while there I was really pushing myself to hard to change people. But like you said I can inspire them to change you're 100% on the mark! I have been inspired by others before to change and just to let you know I am all about change people that know me tell me "But John you are always changing." I tell them that every day I am changing but isn't it a good thing I changed from being a drug addict? a dancing fiend? a religious freak? a churchaholic? a womenizier? change is good when it leads in the right direction. I am hoping my course is true.

Man on a Mission
My Mission in life is truth & love. I appreciate your guidances in this area of my pursuit. I was really suffering lately and the enemy was beginning to have a foothold over my heart where I was about to give up i thought what difference does it make? Odd isn't it? That when I become angry I am at my weakest. When I am all about love I am at my strongest. I heard a christian preachor on daystar network say "Money matters" and "Righteousness is vulnerable and Holiness is unprotected." but that's spiritual nonsense I guess he never read the scripture that says our faith is more precious than gold! GOLD!

1 peter 1:7 These have come so that your faith-of greater worth than gold, which perishes even though refined by fire-may be proved genuine and may result in praise, glory and honor when Jesus Christ is revealed.

Twighlight--The formula you asked about which I reached to come up with 2012. I will do my best to be clear and precise. the passages are is in daniel ch. 12 which speaks about the end times the scripture works together to give us the formula.


Daniel 12:7-13
The End Times
7 The man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, lifted his right hand and his left hand toward heaven, and I heard him swear by him who lives forever, saying, "It will be for a time, times and half a time. [b] When the power of the holy people has been finally broken, all these things will be completed."

The underlined sections are the formula I used for the following numbers applied somewhat like a mathematic equation

11 "From the time that the daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination that causes desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days. 12 Blessed is the one who waits for and reaches the end of the 1,335 days.

The above scripture says the time the daily sacrifice was abolished is 70AD when the temple was destroyed.
A Time=70AD
Times=1,290 days(years is used for this equation which is why it times not A time)
Half a Time/Half of 1,290=645
645+1,290+70=2005 then add the 7 years of tribulation=2012.





Pursuit of eternal happiness
Most people in life will tell they just want to be happy. In that case you would expect me to say "I just want to be happy to." While yes I am in pursuit of happiness it's not the common earthly temporal happiness it is etenal happiness with GOD. I felt like I had arrived at this destination but this recent 2 day depression showed me that I have not arrived. I am awakening like you say twighlight.
Love in it's full potential knows no fear and this is why my spiritual theory to know GOD there is no religion because religion controls and prevents love from furtile growth. the church sometimes burns the fear of hell into people so they go to church and tithe. however I think there is more to life than church and tithing. I believe in love I believe in relationship and most of all I believe in yes I believe in GOD and the Lamb of GOD.

A bond that grows cold
Relationship is the one thing people don't want to ever lose however no matter how strong the bond one day it will end through death. However there is one relationship that will never end and that is worth dieing for. Our relationship with GOD can last forever but our relationship with other lifeforms cannot sustain through death unless they have the same destination. I have lost a very close friend from a car accident I can't tell you how much grief and sorrow I felt in one moment. it was a bond that went cold.

Inspiration is a key
Like our friend Justin we can inspire others to change so now I can focus on that. I can't make anyone change but I can inspire them to change. so inspiration was a key that I needed to understand where this track is going. there is a lot of inspiration inside of me hopefully it will unlock the doors for others to be free.


Law of Liberty
I was talking with a friend Matt and trying to "impose" my beliefs on God's Law I was explaining to him that Christians believe we aren't under law but under grace. I advised him that if we obey men by Paul telling us we are under grace we are following Man but if we obey God's Law we are in turn following GOD! His response amazed me. I don't support the writings of Paul as you folks know but have you read James? of course you probably have but Matt told me that "Christians aren't above the Law" like they might think but it's this Law that grants freedom. How?

James 2:12-13
12Speak and act as those who are going to be judged by the law that gives freedom, 13because judgment without mercy will be shown to anyone who has not been merciful. Mercy triumphs over judgment!

We can't focus on any one passage of scripture for purpose of strict belief but I do think this scripture supports my belief I know one scripture doesn't give us a bulletproof vest of faith knowledge in GOD's will gives us that. My spiritual interpretation of that verse is that yes we should still live by the Law but should at the same time show mercy to others as we will be judged according to it. As far as the sacrificing we no longer have a temple to sacrfice in as well as Jesus who fulfilled the Law by being the Last Sin sacrifice so therefor our sins are forgiven but we should be compelled through Love to show this grace to others. I do believe in the Law of Moses except for the scriptures relating to sacrificing and the temple since the temple was destroyed. Back to your concern twighlight about the Law of Moses is Death maybe this is it?

2 Corinthians 3:7
[ The Glory of the New Covenant ] Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, fading though it was, 8will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious?

Again I don't support the writings of Paul so I think your thesis for new law vs. old law is similar to that of Paul. However I think the distinction we should make is the new grace we are given which is the new covenant we are now free to serve GOD without having to sacrifice which is free indeed however we still need order that's why I do believe we should still obey the Law which is what I am trying to convey to people in love.

I am compelled to obey the law because it gives me practical appliance and daily assistance. We should obey the commandments to Not murder, not steal, not commit idolatry, keep the sabbath, eat clean food, not shave our beards or side growth of hair, not wear mixed garments. These are the commandments christians claim to be free from the "Hebrew law" but I think they serve the purpose of order and like James says the Law that gives freedom. Christians often use the excuse that we cannot keep the law perfectly but what does James say? Show mercy to others and it will be shown to you. Simply put we should live by the Law but without showing mercy and love to others (like the pharisees) we are not keeping the spirit of the law that compells us to obey. we are compelled to keep the law through love then shouldn't we uphold it in love? yes my friends yes! My goal is to reveal the truth that Christianity does not teach the law or to obey GOD's will (which is also know as the law) keep in mind that Jesus did fulfill the Law by being the last sin sacrifice but he did not abolish it.

Matthew 5:17
[ The Fulfillment of the Law ] "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

How? Being THE sacrifice that would end sacrifice. He was a part of GOD the "Arm" of GOD Yashua is the Risen Son of GOD however is not the Creator GOD like many teach today. Why not? Well reason and logic tell us the truth of GOD and theology tends to declare things as absolute but only GOD is absolute not our definition of him. We can discover GOD through nature, logic, and yes the bible. However there is Biblioatry which people regard as some kind of magic power. An example of this would I heard about a Christian who prayed to GOD for a Wife and opened the Bible to "grace be upon you" and he proposed to a woman named Grace. Do you think GOD answered this Man's prayer? or do you think this Man used the Bible as a magic lamp? I don't think GOD gave us the bible so it would give us the secret to amassing wealth granting our wishes for our future wife or something. The bible is our aid to spiritual living and we should not see it as some magic power or special force. There is people who idolize the bible it is called Biblioatry. these people believe the bible is without error(which it isn't) and people who put their defences down and say the bible is complete truth without flaw are playing games with the enemy and they won't be open to understanding the meaning and appliance to scripture. Because even if the bible was 100% truth there would be 1 million different interpretations so just because it is not complete truth doesn't mean it isn't the Word of God there is just some Words of Man and Errors in as well. Some biblioaters say the only way to know GOD is through the Bible but I think we can know GOD through experience and I believe through relationship we have connection to GOD. We just don't have connection to GOD through religion it's the very thing that separates all man.

What I am saying here is that religion is fighting an uphill battle it won't win. Religion controls through fear and scare tactics and I think this is not what GOD or Jesus would have wanted.

Mind over Matter
Overall I think there is more to this life than what we can see, taste, or touch with that said I think our lives should speak worlds apart from this realm. I say we fight the good fight of love & truth. We can only do this through GOD's Divine will for our lives. This is ongoing throughout history is just a matter of what road you are on.

hmm... Firstly, thank you Israelite007 and TwilightEyes for the splendid discussion. No offense at all taken. You are not alone in your thinking.

Instilling Fear
I can understand that your intentions are all very good. That's easily seen, as most of us have good intentions but sometimes communicate them in the wrong way. Our intentions may be to communicate the meaning of Love without fear yet we can still instill fear depending on how we go about it.

The bottom line here is that if everyone has turned against you because of how you try to communicate this Love and Truth, then the results are the exact opposite of what your intention is. In simple terms, it's not working. Those who come from a position of fear will attract it and all that comes with it.

No Savior - No Saint
Neither am I. Don't have to be, nor does it really matter. None of us actually are and it's also not our ultimate goal in life. Trust me when I tell you that I'm far from this. However, without difficulties and understanding different situations in life, we may not be as good at thinking and communicating something we are passionate about.

Our lives have gone through periods of learning and discovery which has led us to thinking and desiring to understand more. That doesn't necessarily means that it's anyones job to break lines just because we want the message out. Like I had summarized above, actions speak much... Much louder than words. If you really seek out Love and Truth, I would encourage you to seek within yourself... That's what I've begun to do. The discovery has been overwhelming.

Man on a Mission
Is it really a mission? What kind of mission is it?

During the roller coaster of my own life and the desire to understand, everything points to one thing and one thing only... my perception of life. If there were difficulties that I was going through or felt like my back was against the wall, or was hanging by my fingernails... Everything that ever happened was a result of my own character and of course my own perception. I really was into religion at one time and darn it, everyone else should be also.

It didn't take long to see that I too was running off friends and family. Now into a little more science and philosophy and no one wants to here that either. That's why we have forums and the internet. Like minds attract. Opposites don't attract, like attract.

The most important discovery I made was in understand that the world is going to reflect back to you, that which you reflect into it. If we send out bad signals, we'll attract bad things.

If we really want to have great impact on people, then showing them is the best way. Telling them means very little. I believe it all starts at home. If I'm depressed, (as I've been many times in my own life) I caused that very depression with my thoughts.

Our Awakening
Each of us will awake when we are ready. We can't rush our fellow man into doing this. We cannot possible expect people to change around us because we change. Wanting to tell everyone is understandable.

You are very correct about Religion in many ways and I share your view. Telling this to someone who has been trained and conditioned to believe what they believe is creating doubt in something that was taught to them by their pastor or professor or spiritual leader or Religion. We are taught to obey the central command and when a person starts to doubt themselves they begin to stiffen up and hide. Telling them how to live or that they need to Love and Truth does not inspire what's intended and the reactions you are getting 'speak louder than words'.

Inpiring and Law
You will inspire others when you inspire yourself. When a person is confident in who they are and comfortable with themselves, people will see this and be attracted to it. It's the energy you send to them when you walk in a room or start a conversation.

In all reality, who cares what Christians do or don't do when it comes to the law. We can either focus our attention on them and their wrong belief system or we can focus on finding our own divinity inside. It's all between you and your creator... Whomever you believe that to be.

Religion
You said a few things that I've said before but would encourage you to look at it differently. You stated that Religion is fighting an uphill battle and it wont win. What are they supposed to win? There's no such thing as fighting when it comes to Love and Truth so why prepare us for battle? Look at it this way... You can't change them, all you can change is you.

God's divine will, I doubt is to what you speak of. God's divine will is something you are going to have to discover for yourself and share it with the world by your actions... not tell everyone they're wrong and you are right. That's the exact same kind of Religious dogma you are fighting.

If your purpose is to fight a battle against Religion, you may as well just open another franchise up. It's not your battle. Religion will change and be inspired by people who actually live Love and Truth and others will follow. This isn't going to happen overnight and it certainly isn't going to be something that we'll necessarily see the results of... however, it's the seed that can be planted without words and without argument.

Does it really matter?
Does it matter that each person... most people follow the doctrine of some religion? Does it make a difference in you? If it is something that aggrivates us or makes upset, that effects us in a negative way and when we start hurting ourselves with negative thoughts, we in turn hurt others... but our intentions may be altogether different. When it comes down to it, who are we to judge the timeliness of mankinds awakening? Who are we to tell someone else they are wrong and judge. It's the easiest thing to do but not necessarily the wisest.

Start from where people are and not where you would expect them to be. Something may effect you in a different way then it effects someone else and pointing this out will automatically put them on defense. Defense mode is not going to allow growth. Growth will cease while in defense.

Think of it this way...
If you were an artist and you spent ten years on a sculpture that you had perfected and then showed it to others... you'd naturally expect them to be as excited and enthused as you are about your project. What if someone came to you in a loving way and pointed out all the flaws in your project that you worked so hard to overcome? This would automatically put you into defense.

Think about it further. What if you were talking to someone in their 50's and 60's. They have children they have raised and taught them their faith and they in turn have grand children and the faith and religious doctrine is handed down... How would they feel if they knew in their heart they have been wrong all along? What would they tell their children?

People have a lot of time and energy wrapped up into religion. For some their lives have changed due to the beliefs and faith that they have come to design for themselves. This is their artwork and they are obviously trying otherwise they wouldn't have found a church. God is knocking at their door of their eternal soul... Religion in many ways isolates them from this but what difference does it really make with you and I? We could always keep blaming them I guess or be angry... but who does that really hurt?

If our friends are wrong, it's our ego telling us so because their perception is they are right. Prove an environment to change their perceptions based on the positive transformation they see recognize within you.

The greatest and most effective of all leaders, lead by example.

Those are my thoughts...

I too am greatly enjoying these conversations with others that care about more than what gossip is on the tube or what material possession is the favorite of the week...

That's one quote indicating the law of moses is the way of death, there are others, i wish i could remember where. I think one key thing it is trying to relate is that the law that we shoudl live by is not so much that which is told to us by others but the law which we all have as a guiding light from within our spirits. We know when we are doing something wrong and we usually know to what degree of wrong it is. Of course if one continues to ignore it and make excuses etc, that person can stop hearing that inner voice or "law" and the mind can become so thorough and quick at self deception that at some point the "wrong" desires become the law we listen to.

Anyway, i do not have all the answers as i am still trying to clear my eyes enough to do what is right without causing more damage to others due to lingering illusions and self deceipts. What i am focusing on living as an example but more than that. I used to do "good deeds" when the opportunity presented itself and i wasn't too wrapped up in my own little world, now i am on a mission to spread good moods through good deeds. I now am actively seeking opportunities to do good things from the obvious big ones to the small but i believe very effective small ones.

I no longer will live on my block and ignore the people around me which is the norm for these days. I now make sure to make eye contact with a smile on my face and at least freakin say hello, how ya doin? I do not ignore that piece of litter on my neighbors lawn or in the middle of the street because "it's not mine or not my problem".

When i was at the park the other day with my wife and children, i spent at least 1/2 the time cleaning up the park. I told my children to "always leave a place better than when you arrived" just loud enough for others to hear it but not be offended as if i was talking directly to them. It also sets a good example for my children.

I guess the best way to describe what i am trying to do these days is to start a chain reaction of "doing right".

My own personal experience with what i believe to have been with the spirit did not indicate to me that i should adhere to these forms of laws concerning clothes and hair. I'm not saying that it is wrong for you or that if the spirit indicated to you that you should... then you probably should. Jesus said "what is a sin for one man may not be a sin for another", of course he was referring to eating meat on friday but i believe it applies to many other things. We don't need a law engraved in letters on stone to know idolatry, adultry, theft and bearing false witness are wrong. We only need to look to the inner voice to know that... and live it. I think the inner law is far superior since no written laws can address all of lives many choices of right and wrong BUT the inner law can do so and does so IF we learn to listen and put it before we put our own selfish desires.

In the end i think this is the beauty of it. Don't do it because you are afraid to break the law and be punished. Do it because of the love of doing whats right because we have seen the pain and suffering caused to all of humanity when people choose not to do whats right. One thing leads to another, a small injustice allows us to do a larger one easier next time and so on until we are what we hate. It also rubs off on others. When we do something wrong it can and usually does affect others negatively and they in turn are weakened and we help them to justify their wrong actions.

By the same token, doing good or doing right is also progressive, for ourselves and for others affected by our good actions. Together... one by one, we can and WILL CHANGE THE WORLD!!!

EDIT: Ok, i was only going to respond to Israelit007's post tonight and read and respond to Justins tomorrow because it's getting so late BUT i had to read some and now i have to edit it in . All i can say is wow, Justin, you are truly my brother. Not to say all aren't my brothers but damnnnnn... A couple things i had to highlight and add to are:

Hehe, this was soooo hard for me to grasp as i was "awakening". I too wanted to shout the message to the world but found it was having the opposite affect i wanted. It too me a while to come to my new way of "living what i believe" and through that helping to change the world. Also, it took me 46 years to come this far so who the hell am i to try and force others to come to it in anything but their own time.

I have come to the belief that even if some or many doctrines are wrong in a religion, it still may be a good tool for helping some people achieve a greater end goal of being better people as long as the religion doesn't preach intolerance of irrelevent trivialities. Fighting against evil such as drug cartels, dictators enslaving their own people and wanting to expand that through war etc etc are example of when to fight... not over what their gods name is or if they believe eating meat on friday is a sin. In the end, i don't care if they are christian, aethiest, muslim or whatever... their actions are what matters. You are what you do....

And by changing you and spreading that "light" of your actions and true caring for others whether you know them or not, whether they are your neighbors on your block or complete strangers, you can and will change others and thier lives and they will in turn change others and their lives and so on and so on...

This is what i call helping to bring the kingdom of heaven on earth. This is a message i think that is lost on many religions. We cannot and should not wait for a saviour, or wait for and end of the world armageddon to change the world for us... we are the saviours, we are the lions and the lambs that can and will bring about the world we all know as children should be... now who's with me brothers? hehe, inspiring wasn't it

Hey guys it's been a minute I know. I have really been reflecting on what's being discussed here. It's difficult to say but I am having a hard time. I know I should be strong and all that but really I am struggling. Look at little old me feeling sorry for myself. How can I ever learn to live peacefully and in love on planet earth? How can I learn to subdue my sinful desires? Just this morning I gave in to sexual sin it's just so sad. After all this I succumb? Just yesterday I was pondering how much I detest my sinful nature I wish I could change it I want to be pure but the thing is the thing I want most can only be given.

Dire Desire
That thing is really what is keeping me going. After all this time. I just want to give up when realize how powerless I am and then I sometimes want to change the world but I have trouble with sometimes changing myself. I am just trying to be honest here the sinful nature it can be a huge headache shall we say.

As for you two Justin and Twighlight my hearts really go out to you what I am saying here is I wish I could sit down with every person on earth and get to know them witness to them guide them and ultimately love them. I just want to live for love of GOD and others but find myself failing GOD with my promises it's really ripping me up inside. Just so you know I had a past life of pornography so conquering this area of my life and keeping sexually pure hasn't been happening lately.

Suffice to say I am the one on an uphill battle and I feel like I am facing an army of dark forces at times, when you get really dark thoughts those are actually the enemy putting thoughts in our head and we think their ours it's just a mtter of what you let in. I get thoughts that i am a false prophet and all this but since the enemy is a liar and all he can do is lie wouldn't that mean I am a true prophet so to say?

Just when I thought I had things together I start to lose track, just so you know yesterday I was asking myself why do it? Why serve the LORD and I wanted to my old life back and then I read the verse today in Joshua to chose whom I will serve. I chose you Almighty GOD, sorry for losing control their father.

I am not trying to be negative here really I want to help people I want to help you two. I used to live a life full of sin with a homosexual who contacted demons now they have followed me to my parents house and they abuse me. give me dreams of sin and make noises when I am trying to sleep it's just annoying. But last night I told GOD I am not afraid anymore I am not afraid of death or anything as long as GOD is with me I am ok. If GOD is not with me then I have every reason to be afraid. Not having GOD behind me is scary very scary.

I want to be good I mean you know a good steward and everything. Last night i thought about what we have talked about you know right and wrong. However in my personal life I don't think of it in terms of right and wrong anymore I think of it as a matter of choice. I chose GOD and follow his son the Lamb. Whether I die whether I live it comes down to a choice and where that choice is going to take me.

HEAVEN & HELL
Someone at work walked by me yesterday and said I don't believe in heaven and hell and someone with them asked "what about pure evil?" I thought what a mess doubt and disbelief is. Just because you don't believe in something doesn't mean it's not real. Even scientific research shows that there is a spiritual realm all around us with space and time being the illusion doubt just has no legitimacy anymore. I mean really we are on the verge of something here it's open spiritual warfare so it's not a matter of what exists it's who you choose to serve. I think people may not believe in it because they want to be their own god if you will and that can be destructive as I know I have had my time with that. I am so sick of hearing "what the hell?" and "O my god." these expressions I try not repeat with my own lips because I think saying "O my god." is slander. lack of respect for Almighty God. It's funny isn't it? People say they don't believe in Heaven and Hell yet what do they say? What the Hell and O my god. This is just the most extreme case of denial I have ever seen. We are all sinners I know I am no better I just pray I am a servant to GOD and not a problem for GOD.

Love is the Answer
I have really been trying to observe love more than anything lately and the way it works. I noticed though the more you love someone the harder it is because you don't want anything bad to happen to them or them to get hurt I just can't win. The more I love others the more difficult it seems to grow since I don't want to ever lose the ones I love (i know this is due to our sinful nature). Being spiteful and cruel comes much easier how bad does that sound? it so much easier to remeber the hurt and hold on to a grudge or become upset. why it is so hard to be loving and compassionate to others? is it because it is our intended nature or true form? This is why I believe Love is the Answer to the question that drives us it's what drove me to change from a drugged out raver into a reborn spiritual creature. Why? I thought about hell one day and how horrible it would be and I know that sounds bad but there was something I couldn't imagine more than the pain more than the hurt I realized the most pain I could ever feel would being without GOD's Love and that's what woke me up to change.

Isaelite007

It is said by the wise man (Solomon) that a good man falls 7 times and gets back up 7 times. Worry not the Lord is always there.

This is my suggestion to you, every morning even if its an un godly hour
when you first wake say the Lord prayer ( the our father)
then when ready
say this prayer
Lord let me repent of anything that is not like you.
Lord let your Holy Spirit burn it out and replace it with your Word.
Lord it is not my love but your Love
Lord it is not my faith but your Faith
Lord it is not my hope but your Hope
Lord it is not my truth but your Truth
Lord it is not my life but your Life
Lord it is not my way but your Way
Lord it is not my wisdom but your Wisdom
Lord it is not my understanding but your Understanding
Lord it is not my knowledge but your Knowledge
Lord it is not my testimony but your Testimony
Lord it is not my commandment but your Commandment
Lord it is not my mercy but your Mercy

to be more like the Lord one must receive that which is of Him.
If you had the power to get ride of that which you may hate about yourself you would have done it. But without some thing to replace it God's Word the Truth you still look to lies for your thoughts. This is normal, it is a process that proves you before the Lord. It is not for wimps who love there feelings more than the Truth. That land the God has given you(dust and water your body and all that is in it) must be surrendered every day, even Paul said he sacrificed himself daily. You don't become a vessel of God's Mercy overnight. But following the Lamb gives you the power to become, from that which you are starting from, a son of God.

May the good Lord give you Light on this.


Do not be afraid to be honest with the Father, He has seen it all, your not going to shock Him and He is already aware. If you like some thing, admit it to Him you must understand God is a gentleman and also He will not take care of something unless you understand the Truth of the issue. For it is the Truth that sets you free. He is the potter you are the clay and you know, the clay is kneeded before the pot is formed.

Israelite007,

First, your openness and honesty about your situation and the things you are dealing with is an honorable attribute. Most often times people are reluctant to really open up and speak that which is on their mind or bothering them. Thank you for you post as well your level of comfort here on this forum amongst this community.


This you've pointed out above is a misconception. You and I cannot change the world, all we can change is ourselves and our own perception of the world. Everyone will change when they are ready to change and not before. We can plant seeds which inspire thinking but that is about it.

Richard Grant, (The bloody Australian guest in my home) explains it in a way that really makes sense. He says that when we change, it will look like others have changed when in fact the change is within ourselves and our own perceptions. The beauty of it is that our perception changes and we begin to perceive a world or a community that has changed to fit that of our thinking. They or it really hasn't changed but we see change.



Thank you for expressing yourself honestly. Again, this shows your desire.

First, I'm not an authority on any of this you speak of but I have had some time to think about it and ponder over what it is you have expressed so I will offer you my thoughts on the above...

Love and Love of God
In order to love anything or anyone, we must first love ourselves. Love of oneself will radiate and attract love and express itself without any effort at all. I personally was raised in an environment where I never knew what love was. Actually, hate and rage would be a more accurate description of the environment I was raised in. This type of thinking would simply reciprocate over and over until I started to understand what love really was and how to let go of the past and all of my inadequacies and start to love myself. It's that change within myself that has enabled me to love my family and my friends. Prior to loving oneself, there is no such expression of love for anything else, it's all an illusion.

Uphill Battle and dark forces
Contrary to popular belief, it's not really an uphill battle unless you make it an uphill battle. The dark forces you face are the dark forces that you create. It's an illusion. In many ways, we create these dark forces so that we can relieve ourselves of any blame or responsibility for our own thoughts and actions. It's much easier to blame external circumstances for our own problems however, this doesn't bring us any closer to truth or reality.

Your thoughts and my thoughts exist and are based on our circumstances around us. How we were raised or the experiences we have had, (good or bad) help to form our perceptions of our world. It's through these perceptions we keep recreating our world around us. Once we are able to contain and control our own perceptions, then external circumstances will change and alter to fit our perceptions. This is when we notice a change in someone else when really it's a change within ourselves.

We go seeking answers because we desire to change and usually find places or institutions that will help us to identify that which to blame rather than taking a look at ourselves. The dark forces and the enemies we fear are the enemies we create. They would not be there unless we thought them into existence.

Remember, first comes thought, then comes the manifestation of those thoughts. If we think we are fighting an uphill battle with dark forces we are creating just that. If we think that Satan is to blame for the evil in this world, we go on to create him with our imaginings based on our thoughts and it becomes our reality. Then people start leading people with their thoughts and those manifestations become realities and gain in size and power. Just look at what we've created outside of ourselves.

Serving God
This is where my thoughts differ than many. I don't believe for one moment that my purpose in life is to serve God in the way that most religions dictate. We are the energy creation of God. Serving God in my eyes, is serving our fellow man and recognizing that Divine Light of God within our own selves rather than making ourselves prodigal sons of God. This doesn't mean trying to be our own God, it simply means tapping into the resources that God provides within his creation. I use the word God and his because that's most often what man calls the very source of creation and all that is.

Jesus was a servant to his fellow man, not to God. Think about this???? Think about what Jesus was and what he did and what he taught and forget about what they've brainwashed us all into believing.

We are an extension of God just as our cells in our body are an extension of us. Be it he is the tree and we are the branches. No need to separate ourselves from that which we are. We are created in the image of God to create with God. God is the omnipresent force behind all of creation.

Helping People
This is also a misconception. Remember, we cannot help anyone... all we can do is provide an environment for them to help themselves. You can lead a horse to water but you cannot make him drink. Help yourself and in helping yourself, you will be helping everyone else without any effort at all. If you build on the light within yourself, it will attract those of like kinds and help those who recognize that light to discover it within themselves. Trying to change the world cannot be done until we first change ourselves. Then and only then will the world be transformed in line with our perceptions.

Living in the Past
It's something that all of us have. We all have a past and we all have things that we are not proud of or embarrassed about. There's things we have done in our past that have brought us guilt and shame and so long as we continue to carry that guilt and shame, we will keep reliving the exact thing we don't want to relive. We'll keep attracting that which we fear the most.

I've often struggled with this. Each person has his or her own experience in life and we've created our own. The difficulty is that we mainly see our own past and are guilty about what we have done. This guilt will not allow the love to flow through us and over time builds a wall between us and our creator.

The other thing that I'm learning is that when I recognize something wrong with someone else, it's a mere reflection of me. It's like pointing out the spec in my brothers eye, not noticing the log in my own. It's a difficult thing to understand but it's comes down to judgment of each other. When we judge someone, it's in essence a judgment on ourselves. When we dislike the ways of someone else, this effects us in those ways we dislike. When we hurt someone else, we hurt ourselves. When we hate, that hate only hurts us.

If you believe in it, then you will ultimately create it. Heaven and hell (to my personal understanding), isn't some place that we are going when our bodies die. Heaven and hell is experienced right here and right now on earth. When you are dealing with these situations that you've mentioned, you are essentially creating that hell. We can create both of these with out thoughts.

Spiritual warfare comes from a religious standpoint. They tend to embrace this so that they don't have to accept responsibility for their own thoughts. It's much easier to blame the sin of the world on spiritual warfare than it is to buck up and take responsibility for our own thoughts and actions. In the Church, spiritual warfare and evil spirits lead people in the direction of fear, and in that fear there can be no growth. A community cannot grow when they are preparing for war. They simply cannot do both. It's the same with the individual human being... one cannot grow when they are coming from a position of fear. The Church breeds fear and we see the repercussions of it all around us. It's not what Jesus taught at all.

You mention that you get sick of hearing certain things. Look past them. Don't get hung up on things that will hurt you, let loose of them because you cannot change anyone else all you can change is yourself. Anything that you get hung up on or dislike, effects only you and the more you think about these things, the more they will bother you... not at all bothering the person that you claim to be slanderous. As Richard Grant is explaining, it's your own hang up, not theirs and you must let go of it.

In closing... Praying always helps and there are people in this forum like DP, TwilightEyes and many others who will offer what advice and thoughts they can, each in their own way. Ultimately, you are going to have to find your own center in the stillness of that divinity inherent within yourself. God is not separate from you.

Here's an interesting song.. Listen carefully and think and listen again.
YouTube - Eagles - Learn to be still

Forget the past. If you really want to change the world start at home. Your only enemy is your own thoughts and that's all that matters.

Once again, the above is something I also tell myself and it's only based on my experience, I'm not an authority on this at all... just my thoughts. You will find your answers as you seek and these will come to you from within, not from without. You are co-creating your world with God or without, either way, we are all creating and will continue to create.

Thanks again for allowing me to respond and for taking the time to read my thoughts on this.

- One last thought...
... there is not a single cell in your body that was there 7 years ago. This means that you are not the same body as you were 7 years ago and everything has changed. So step out of the past and into the present and find joy and prosperity within yourself. I too shall do the same...

Your answer is so inspirational... Bernd

Thank you ThouAreThat.

It's my belief and perception that although there are many different perceptions coming from all different areas. Whether it be Religion, Philosophy or Science, they are all looking to discover the same thing... the One thing.

Kind of like tornado shape or a conical sphere... Although we are all far apart in one respect, it all funnels down to One thing and One single point. The illusion is that we are separate from ourselves and from God and there are different perspectives on this.

Each person, depending on their placement within the sphere, will discover this for themselves when they are ready to discover this. Shedding of the dogma that has been handed down from generations past is a big part of it.

The difficulty I suppose is in finding out that Newton was wrong. Our grand parents were wrong, our parents were wrong... science was wrong... that's a scary thing to many people because we've been trained and conditioned to trust and believe in those people and their beliefs.

... All, of course, funneling into One single source coming in from various facets of our imaginings. We will eventually arrive... The question is, how long will it take and how many more edifices are we going to build along the way?

I must admit that I haven't been reading the entirety of the posts here (they're so long), but when I have time, I certainly will. From what I've read, it's interesting stuff.

I figured I would throw in my two cents, because it might interest someone. It goes with what Isrealite007 was talking about: I went to see a speech made by the Dalai Lama last month, and he, to an extent, promoted secularism. Essentially, he explained that being human is primary and religion is secondary. Often, religion splits us apart. By being secular, you're not denying religion, you're merely opening yourself up to all religions. (just thought this might me relavent...)

The difficulty in dealing with the religious is that they are not like that which our preconceived notions think they ought to be. For example I expect to be contested or challenged or worse on this web site because that is what is to be expected on a site such as this. But if I visit a church I expect something else (my preconceived notions) if I don't fined what I expect I get angry, frustrated because I expect them to be what they say. Foolish me. Knowing that my expectations in them is truly unwarranted, when all expectation should be in the Lord. Jesus being perfect did not beat on those who where not that which they should have been though having the power as any man to do so, nor did he teach any one to do so. For he has the power to rase the dead. Verified by rasing Lazarus, and himself from the dead and offering the same to any one that calls upon his name. And the truth is that they who crucified him, brutalized him for not being that which they thought he ought to be.
The Lord got angry at two things that I can remember. One he chased out the money changers in his fathers house. Then stated that he would destroy and rase this temple in three days. Meaning himself being the temple of God. But Paul also teaches that if the Holy Spirit is within you, it is the Spirit of God therefore being a dwelling of God your body is a temple of God giving all rights as a child of God to whip and chase out anything that is not of God within your body, a temple.
In the helping of others, it is to give that which was given you to do the same.
Two when Jesus expected to receive of the fig tree and did not, he cursed it, and it died. Big warning there. How any one can even think that, verbal and emotional abuse, threats and anger, guilt whipping, and from such, the demanding to be servitude to them, to be like them bears fruit unto the Lord, I have no idea. Is it not the mentality of a baby to try and fined ways to manipulate the adults. These are the brutalities of men and the craftiness of men to make others as they think they ought to be, for there own gain. Not the mercy of God, for the Kingdom of God.

If given the power would you rase the dead, or beat on the living for not being that which you think they ought to be? The mercy of God is to give His Life where there is none. And that is exactly what Jesus did on the cross and is the Glory thereof. So that mankind can receive the Life from God.

May the Good Lord be with you all this fine day.

My my oh my this is shaping up to be quite the discussion folks, thanks to all the input I have been recieving from some great people. I must say I am different now having heard all that you have had to say but I don't want it stop there. Keep the creative juices flowing friends!

I love a discussion when it is considerate, heartfelt, respectful, and comprehensive. If we can learn from the birds and the bees then we can certainly learn from each as demonstrated here. You might find it funny but I was very shy when I was young and my own friends made fun of me for not talking one night for 3 hours yep they literally clocked me. People always said to me "why don't you ever talk" Now sometimes I get told "why do you have to talk." (in reference to my beliefs) The tables have turned but no matter the way they are facing people are always complaining. No I am not complaining just stating how odd the world reacts to everything jonathan.(that's me he he)


Emotion Engine
When it comes down to it I am passionate and driven man on a crash course with life. I felt like I have seen and heard it all and I grapple with the idea that when it comes down to it simple everyday life is all I want. Being truly human is truly challenging. that's just incredible how much my emotions change. I respond well to inspiration and configuration what I mean is formulating the right ideas to create the right picture. The true fuel I am running on is a passion to be spiritaully aware of my every moment and thence affecting my actions to reflect my thoughts but ultimately my heart. Most religions teach to follow some creed but I follow my heart which lead me to GOD. I never asked to be apart of GOD I was lead there through desperation and consolation. My background tells alot I was always the "cool guy" but in truth GOD made me cool and in retrospect GOD made every1 cool it's just a matter of what they choose to do with it. I think now more than ever that every1 is special in their own way and we shoud stop this cascading effect of people being better than each other. GOD created man as equals and equals we should simply be. man is an uncanny creature often breathing competetion and sweating accomplishment we should be more focused on the whole of community and the edifying of others. I cannot glorify myself if I do my glory means nothing and this is what Jesus taught. But yet it is the cycle that is rampant in our society. Try Be better than someone else and be like others but be yourself and be unique. This is what they should teach in school as it breeds heart and builds character. We need to have good character to handle things in life for good or for bad.

Inspiring Awe
My goal in life is to inspire awe in people not of me but of GOD and his Son. It's not wholly me that speaks it may be part of GOD too. I want to give people something to remember about being accepted and being free. I am like a bird I want to fly away my heart drifting me so softly my memory guiding me ever so tenderly. I just want to be loved I want to love and the greatest part I thought about Love is simply being loved in return it's more than enough. I want a pure heart a good heart a heart in union with the Lamb of GOD. I am tired of hurting I am tired of getting angry I just want to grow into my ture form the self I put on the shelf when I was a child. When I think about growing old I have to remember being young because that's where the heart is a child who sees the world for what they want to see not what the world tells them. I want to release the demons in me and just be at the mercy of the One who reigns Supreme. God has given me a gift a gift to see the world the way I want to see not for what they tell me. I want to see the good in people and salvage the hearts and minds of those I love. I want to give them something to remember something tender. How on earth do I urge to surge in life abundance of wealth in love and rich in faith on a journey to trust and sharing a plus. I just want to be the Man GOD made me I am not a self-made man. I have a dream in the day to be free from the confines of everyday life and sore to the heights of GOD's great light. I have a vision to no longer be running scared but being flying aware. The soul longs to fly high and that's why I try to reach the sky even though i have no wings and cry.

Whew! That's intense folks I hope it was for you all too. I am just trying to be earthly honest and mindfully human it's got the best of me this need to be complete. how much do I thirst for the water Jesus promised. Oh do I hunger for a meal of truth and mercy above all i need mercy. I am breaking apart to only be put back together again.

Wheels of Conception & Reception
On to the meat of the topic right? What do I have to say about you folks comments and concerns...Well here comes the floodgates so open up wide for the onslaught of agression! Just kidding ha ha see I can be funny. Okay okay on to what I have to say.

dpmartin::excellant point bringing up the two things that made Jesus mad. I never heard any1 put it like that that Jesus referred to himself as the Temple and I never thought of that either. Thanks for pointing that out! And like you said dealing with the religious is very trivial. I don't think GOD ever meant us to be Tribal in our beliefs I think GOD intended us to be free and share that freedom with every1. The more I see religion dictate to us who or what we should be the more we become separate and indifferent. We should celebrate diversity and be gratify the community of believers into oneness or unity. I like where you are going on this I would like to see more of that. thanks for the wonderfull prayer

Justin::Well what do I have to say about you my friend? Good gosh you hit so many smooth strokes you make me like look a rookie on the field of life. Thank you for your keen insight overall I am really second guessing myself a lot with you around thanks for your continued inspired and remarkable answers. Good stuff! A couple of things I wanted to touch on.

Oneness
It sounds like you are really into the oneness with GOD and surroundings which I share with you friend I do also believe we are all connected and everything I do effects me even if I hate someone else I am only hurting myself I know this yet sometimes my thoughts allude to another story I have to keep in check with thise so thanks for the reminder there! I do believe like you say we are an extension of GOD and LOVE how you say we are co-creators with GOD. I think that does carry a lot of truth because we can create our own hell in the sense if we choose to be sad depressed defeated and upset or conversly create our own heaven in the sense with happiness love joy.

Something Supernatural
I really like where you are going just keep traveling on traveling on and on. However I don't fully understand what you mean in a literal hell or a literal heaven. My friend I can't say for sure whether there is a literal heaven or a literal hell as I have never been there. Still I have experienced supernatural events completely awake and completely sober for over 3 years so extreme I had to share a bed with a gay man and I am not not no definitely not gay. I would never share a bed with a gay man unless I was hearing demons and actually experienced body disturbances which I was sometimes getting knocked around my bed. Never got hurt thankfully. I have always thought GOD existed but didn't know GOD enlisted I do I will post my testimony in creative writin hopefully you take a peek. Anyways what I wish I could say is I have complete faith in GOD with no history of supernatural activity however I have experienced a ton of supernatural events. I have seen a scripture on my wall that said Isaiah 10 I have seen a blue flash that lite up the sky at 5am december last year that I thought was a missle attack I have heard demonic voices I have seen demonic spirits (under influence) i have seen a spiral of angels (under influence). So really the evidence is clear there is a literal spiritual realm there is a literal enemy and there is a living God. This is my personal reality I am just saying I am not sure I fully understand your reasoning is all. As far as heaven and hell I don't know I haven't been there but I no whereever GOD is in the supernatural universe that is heaven to me and wherever GOD is not that is hell to me that much I can say for sure but my faith is that they do both exist.

Concept of Creation
I like your ideas of creation and would like to build on this concept how we can co-create with GOD however I think like you said GOD is about Love and Balance we can create yes but don't we have limits? we cannot possibly create heaven or satan we cannot even create a human from dust or make a single hair on our head grow we are really limited as far as power. When GOD is in our lives that's when things change that's when we can co-create only because he has the power not us. We can co-create a human through pro-creation we can co-create love in it's true form through relationship with GOD we can create our realities and perception of life and how we respond to it is ultimately our creation. However how can we can create a universe, a heaven, or hell can we not only play a part in them? I do like the idea that we can create but really I think our creativity is our form of creation (technology, art, music, writing) Maybe I am off base here?

Serving God--what you said on this really impressed me so I qoute
I do hope you believe in a living GOD not sure if you meant this or not.


I do think we can still serve GOD though through prayer, obediance, and love. I think this is the only way I can walk away from life by serving others through love and we can serve GOD through prayer, obediance, and faith and action thus resulting in good fruit. Like someone here said Jesus is tree and we are the branches, when we spring leaves that's when we reach our potential.

Thanks for the reality check with some annoyances that i have I need to rise above this not be weighed down and let the Lamb take my yoke so I can continue to learn to walk.

You mentioned a guy named Richard said this

This is huge. It inspired me to remember a scene from the movie the Matrix. Neo was talking to a young boy he was a potential and he was bending a spoon with his mind. Neo grabbed the spoon and the boy said "Don't try to bend the spoon that's impossible." This is almost exactly as your friend Richard says and reminded me immediately of the boy. I think this means that we cannot change anything like that spoon. then the boy goes on "Only try to realize the truth." Neo "What truth?" Boy "There is no spoon. it's only yourself that moves." This is pivotal to our discussion and for sake of relevancy I wanted to mention it because I am trying to see the light.

As you were closing you said something sensational it was

Wow wow and wow! I can't tell you how profound that really is! I ran away 7 times I was a run away for 7years I came back in 2007 on the 6-7th day of April (came back to GOD) on good friday. That's how I thought of 007 since I just took the 2 out of this year since that is when I returned. I have trouble letting go of my past it's really really bad. I sometimes thought a was unforgiveable but that's wrong i know. check out my testimony if you want in creative writing

Overall Justin I would like to see more from you so I welcome you to go deeper deeper still. Thank you friend.

twighlight::haven't heard from you in a while so hope you are still around your conecpt of the burning mirror has helped me a lot I have to think if I am causing fear or pressure in people when I want to reveal truth or show love. you tell a lot of good stories and would like to hear what your storytelling tells us this time.

Thanks folks keep um coming I appreciate your continued insight, advice, and kind words I hope we can connect further.
Today's Moral
Life~~you can only be yourself everyone else is already taken

I know you're saying much more than this, but for myself, I can be Jewish despite Rabbinic "authorities" claiming I'm not, because Hashem and the Prophets are the authority. I can be Christian despite Church authorities, for the same reason. I can be Muslim, and no man can stop me or say I must jump thru hoops. No person gets between me and GOD.

the main problem with religion is that religion is lead by an imperfect leader, man, the pope is suppossed to tell every chathlic on earth the true way to follow God but despite his claims of infallibility and being the mouthpiece of God he is only a man and every time a pope has screwed up or misinterpreted every chathlic on earth has screwed up with him and it has become as Jesus said "the blind leading the blind" how are we supposed to trust an imperfect leader like man to expound perfection to us? how can we put faith in somthing identical to ourselves when they are in exactly the same position? each person must develop that personal relationship with God by reading the bible and deciding how to act in order to please our creator.