2
   

How law works and why it does not.

 
 
vikorr
 
  2  
Reply Wed 20 Jul, 2011 05:04 pm
@Fido,
Quote:
Well look at Nazi Germany where the leaders were the law, and the law the law the law had to be obeyed down to the last letter... Who stood up against the law??? It was the Catholics who as a group are most responsible for the rule of law that cast the deciding vote for the enabling act that made the will of hitler law.
Hmmm...If I remember right, there were those who did stand up against the law...called ‘The Allies’, and most of the Allies were Catholic. You are also looking at a law system that was ultimately short lived and self defeating. Does it not say something that you that you chose a law system reviled by most other law systems, and one that failed, as your example? And this you are using to justify your position of how ALL law systems don’t work?

Does it not say something that you tried to avoid looking at “places with large populations were law and order has broken down, or barely functions”
Quote:
Law is the destruction of commuities

In the current democratic system - Laws functioned quite well with community spirit for many centuries, so this is incorrect, even though the present system is breaking down communities...but that is not about laws per se (although they are used), but about a corrupted system of government joined with a people willing to be bought.
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Jul, 2011 05:08 pm
@vikorr,
What you said in there, your reply, comes to me as the difference between understanding and not understanding...it defines the fringe frontier, the boundary between confusion and clarity...

(...also it very much clarify´s two different genotypes in this world, those for order and those for anarchy...)
0 Replies
 
Fido
 
  2  
Reply Wed 20 Jul, 2011 07:58 pm
@joefromchicago,
joefromchicago wrote:

Fido wrote:

We have more people per capita in the system than ever before in history.

I think the ratio of people per capita has remained remarkably steady at 1:1.
In the system, meaning in the legal system, and a huge part of the population involved in enforcing the laws, and in defending against undue prosecution, and yet to mention all the people involved in civil actions even with class actions all but entirely prohibited because to injure great numbers deserves greater protections.... It used to be that only the Soviet Union had a greater percentage of its population behind bars... Well what are they teaching of useful skills... They teach people only to grow old with a minimum of trouble and a maximum of grace...
0 Replies
 
Fido
 
  2  
Reply Wed 20 Jul, 2011 08:07 pm
@vikorr,
vikorr wrote:

Quote:
Well look at Nazi Germany where the leaders were the law, and the law the law the law had to be obeyed down to the last letter... Who stood up against the law??? It was the Catholics who as a group are most responsible for the rule of law that cast the deciding vote for the enabling act that made the will of hitler law.
Hmmm...If I remember right, there were those who did stand up against the law...called ‘The Allies’, and most of the Allies were Catholic. You are also looking at a law system that was ultimately short lived and self defeating. Does it not say something that you that you chose a law system reviled by most other law systems, and one that failed, as your example? And this you are using to justify your position of how ALL law systems don’t work?

Does it not say something that you tried to avoid looking at “places with large populations were law and order has broken down, or barely functions”
Quote:
Law is the destruction of commuities

In the current democratic system - Laws functioned quite well with community spirit for many centuries, so this is incorrect, even though the present system is breaking down communities...but that is not about laws per se (although they are used), but about a corrupted system of government joined with a people willing to be bought.

Not really short lived... Hitler was simply the end rather than the begining of anything... All the roads of the former reiches, and the family, arts and religion all pointed toward him, and even, god forbid, their science and philosophy... He was not unnatural, and what he called for was to them, no unusual... He touched a common chord with them...

Look... Civilization is not alone synonymous with sin, but also with law, and while no civilization could exist without law, it has been law that has been their destruction... When a person may have what they want without justice only by control of the law, they take peace through law and order for granted when it is not, and while they may continue on for a while in that fashion, forcing good behavior rather than having social behavior as a relationship growing out of justice, then, They first weaken their society and then destroy it unless people can renew their society with revolution, which is rare... The stories of destroyed civilizations are many, and the stories of revolutions are rare...
0 Replies
 
CalamityJane
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Jul, 2011 08:47 pm
Quote:
Not really short lived... Hitler was simply the end rather than the begining of anything... All the roads of the former reiches, and the family, arts and religion all pointed toward him, and even, god forbid, their science and philosophy... He was not unnatural, and what he called for was to them, no unusual... He touched a common chord with them...


What the heck are you talking about? Hitler was not unnatural?
He was crazy and sadly enough only towards the end did his followers realize how insane he really was. He touched a common cord with whom and who are "them"?
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Jul, 2011 09:00 pm
@CalamityJane,
yeah... Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
Fido
 
  2  
Reply Thu 21 Jul, 2011 05:10 am
@CalamityJane,
By today's standards and with what we know of borderline personalities; Hitler would certainly be considered mentally ill... Understanding Hitler in the light of German History, he seems quite the norm, and it is for that reason that he so appealed to the people... His racial theories were not new, and were put forward by many respected people in Germany... The notion of expansion to the East for living space was nothing new there... As every family was a dictatorship where violence was common and expected, so the whole people was bred to expect control and relish in violence... Spengler prepared people for hitler... Luther prepared people for hitler... Nietzsche prepared people for hitler... Bismark, and even Napoleon prepared people for hitler...The anti democratic element was huge and included even people like Martin Heidegger, and the behavior of the West in regard to the first great war sabotaged the Weimar Republic which for the benefit of the business class and Junkers held the very emergancy powers that allowed hitler to become dictator and trash the constitution...
CalamityJane
 
  2  
Reply Thu 21 Jul, 2011 09:04 am
@Fido,
Fido, I am German so I know our history very well. Whatever you have spun
together in that little mind of yours, is so far removed from reality, I don't even know where to begin .....
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Jul, 2011 10:08 am
@CalamityJane,
Begin with a book called: The Psychopatic God... It does not in the least deny that Hitler was Ill... It simply makes the case that what he asked from the people and what he promised them was not out of line with their history, past or present... I agree, and I have many books on the subject... In addition, I am certain the little mind you refer to must be the result of my three quarters German heritage... I had them in my own family as well, men who would brutalize their own children and thinking all the while they were doing them good... I have heard my own grandmother disregard every moral argument and say the will of the government was law... It is a wonderful thing that Hitler slaughtered so many of his own best... Those people who followed him were incapable of life in the modern world... They were incapable of democracy... They were fit only for the horse collar or a leash... It surprises me they did no more damage than they did... Thank God I am part Irish and all American... I have a touch of humanity to temper my savagery...
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Jul, 2011 10:20 am
@Fido,
So in your narrow minded view Germans invented the empire concept, is it ?
How about the Romans ? or the "Frenchy" with Napoleon ? and so on and on for Christ sake...

(My heritage is also partially German Kreiseler and Stokler by the way...)
CalamityJane
 
  2  
Reply Thu 21 Jul, 2011 10:45 am
@Fil Albuquerque,
Fil, there is no use to further get into Fido's rambling...first he's 3/4 German
and in the end he is "thank god" only Irish and American. Math isn't his specialty either, among other things of course Wink
0 Replies
 
CalamityJane
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Jul, 2011 10:54 am
@Fido,
Fido said
Quote:
I had them in my own family as well, men who would brutalize their own children and thinking all the while they were doing them good... I have heard my own grandmother disregard every moral argument and say the will of the government was law... It is a wonderful thing that Hitler slaughtered so many of his own best...


Fido, I am sorry that you come from a twisted genetic line like this, however, brutalizing their own children and thinking how wonderful Hitler was, seems to be strictly part of your own family tree. Please do not think that what is happening in your own family history is also happening in Germany. Your genetic predisposition is as sick as you are, I am afraid to say!



Fido
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Jul, 2011 12:29 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
Fil Albuquerque wrote:

So in your narrow minded view Germans invented the empire concept, is it ?
How about the Romans ? or the "Frenchy" with Napoleon ? and so on and on for Christ sake...

(My heritage is also partially German Kreiseler and Stokler by the way...)
The German Empire was very much the racial state... Caesar for wanting to expand Roman citizenship to all the peoples of the empire was killed... Hitler may have extended equality to a few select peoples, and for the most part would have enslaved the world's nations... What they said should be done with the slavs, for example, and what they did to all who fell under their control is a terrible lesson for those inclined to racial explanations of history... But it was nothing new to those people... German Romanticism following close on the heels of German Politics and intellectualism set that course for the German people long before hitler was born..
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Jul, 2011 12:36 pm
@CalamityJane,
CalamityJane wrote:

Fido said
Quote:
I had them in my own family as well, men who would brutalize their own children and thinking all the while they were doing them good... I have heard my own grandmother disregard every moral argument and say the will of the government was law... It is a wonderful thing that Hitler slaughtered so many of his own best...


Fido, I am sorry that you come from a twisted genetic line like this, however, brutalizing their own children and thinking how wonderful Hitler was, seems to be strictly part of your own family tree. Please do not think that what is happening in your own family history is also happening in Germany. Your genetic predisposition is as sick as you are, I am afraid to say!




No one in my family supported hitler, but if they had remained in Germany I am certain they would have... They were authoritarian, and cruel, but were slavish in regard to their loyalty to authority.... There is a lot of that sort of thought that could be laid off on Luther, but my people were Catholic, and just as bad...I know about the swing kids... I know about the twilight war against hitler... The fact is that no serious wide spread opposition to hitler ever developed in Germany... Even the generals had sold themselves to that idiot for the dream of conquest, and when they realized what a fool he was, it was way to late to fix the mess they had helped to make...
0 Replies
 
Fil Albuquerque
 
  3  
Reply Thu 21 Jul, 2011 12:51 pm
@Fido,
First of all, and let me tell you straight away that I am not willing to stretch this topic very further, we have concerning nature at large a "racial theory" a species theory to be precise in Darwin s Evolution, and one which is about success and failure through competition in between species, so the same principle could well be applied to races, to culture, to aesthetics etc etc...of course when it comes to us humans we drop it because it turns out inconvenient and we are far better off on diplomatic affairs and trade to leave it aside...but your very own statements in the previous posts above end up reminding us all how racist we all can be concerning the evaluation of the "other" those ones who are different from us, be it racially or simply culturally, or on whatever other layer you want to look at...
...nevertheless and bottom line the point was about Germany being a special case in History regarding its expansive Empire like attitude, and that of course is just silly plain wrong assumption to anyone who actually pay´s attention to the "Historical algorithm loops", lets put it that way, regarding the nations development and dominance processes all over the world throughout History...
vikorr
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Jul, 2011 01:37 pm
@Fido,
I wonder if Fido enjoys a peaceful, orderly journey to work each morning (or whereve r he chooses to travel on our roads)
CalamityJane
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Jul, 2011 02:16 pm
@vikorr,
I don't think he gets out much!
reasoning logic
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 21 Jul, 2011 03:22 pm
@CalamityJane,
I just do not know how to start off!

Please do not take this as an insult because that is not how it is intended!
If you think that Fido is not a great thinker then you have not taken the time to research much of what he has posted or you just have not thought hard about what he has to say!

If you think something that he says is incorrect then please point out the specific sentence and point out as empirically as you can how it is wrong.

Sometimes we just misunderstand what others are meaning! Do you honestly think that Fido thinks that every German is evil?

I myself think that all of us get it wrong and that Hitler's behavior was normal and is normal for some people today not that I agree with it but we being the fifth ape have allot more evolving to do!
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Jul, 2011 04:18 pm
I would like to see those who have thumbed down my reply use the scientific method or the best of their abilities rather than their emotional opinions.
0 Replies
 
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Jul, 2011 06:33 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
You seem to make sense to me about what you said but I see no problem bringing up such topics because it is these topics that help us to understand things like the success and failure through competition in between species!
0 Replies
 
 

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