is make up the burka of western society?

Do you honestly think that everyone hates to wear burkas? That everyone is against it? Just because some people hate it doesn't mean that everyone does; that is a very crude generalization.

Some people are proud to wear burkas.

There are countless people in other parts of the world that are not forced to wear burkas but do so because it is what they believe. They want to.

The point that I'm trying to make is: Not everyone who wears a burka in the east is doing so by force, just as not everyone who wears make-up is doing so by force. But some people are pressured into it, just under different circumstances. Actors and models for example. Their natural beauty is not enough, so they must improve themselves. They choose to wear it, but choosing not to would mean finding a different career. Some of the people in the east have a much more difficult choice, though. Instead of choosing whether or not to work, they must choose whether or not to survive.

There are differences, I'm not denying that. But there are also many commonalities. It's a great concept, makes me think. Isn't that why we're here?

Hi everyone... Intresting thread. I spent last winter in Kyrgyzstan living with an Uzbek family (muslim, former soviet union). I don't have a whole lot to comment on the interpretation of this info at the moment, but I figured I'd add it to the discussion...

While burkas are not commonly worn where I was living, head scarves and covering were very common. At the same time, there were mulitple cultures living in the same area, and of course there had been a heavy athiest (soviet) influence for many years, which ended in the early 90s. A lot women there (though no all) have a lot of choice as to how or what they are going to "cover up" with. There are different styles of ramuls (scarves), and different ways of wearing them. As far as I can tell, many of them take a lot of pride in being religious (by wearing the "right" one the "right" way. At the same time I know that they have imense social and family pressure to wear them. There is also a difficult balance to find for the young women as well, who want to be "good" and wear the scarves in very conservative styles, while at the same time wanting to be fashionable, and for at least some of them, the choice was up to them. Until they got married that is, then the husband (and his family) would have a lot of power...

Just some first hand experiences to add to the discussion.


I also have a bit of information that I had heard from those who had recently been, or had friends in, neighboring Uzbekistan. Apperently when the Soviet Union took control many years ago, the women were extremely exited to be rid of the burkas that they had been forced to wear, for a while there were big "burka burning" parties. Now, 15 years or so after the collapse of the Soviet Union, the general populace is returning quickly to more traditional Islam, and apparently the women are in some cases leading the way by voluntarily wearing burkas... This of course was second hand information, but it was believable because I sensed some of the same attitudes where I was.

I hate to dig up old threads, but I had this conversation at work today with a
friend who is engaged to a man who comes from a Muslim family.
She says she never thought of it before, but she does believe that yes, make-up is the Burka of Western society, because it defines women as who they are according to their geography and their chosen lifestyles.

Kinda makes sense to me, but I only wish we had more time to discuss it.

I really don't know how you can call call a burka the same as make up.

Make up can be applied by free will and has nothing to do with religion. If it someone finds make up to define their identity it is fine with me. I always have seen identity based upon character and less on looks.

The burka however is something i detest and find the most awful things ever a religion imposed upon woman. A burka is used to hide a womans face (and body) from other males. I don't understand why woman want to hobble around in a body bag all day (sorry for calling burka's body bags, but that what they are to me). The burka limits woman, and should be forbidden by every (non Islamic) country if you ask me. I say non Islamic for most Islamic countries have gone nuts over the last few years and won't normalize for a very long time. I don't have anything against the Islam, but this disrespect for woman is just to much. It even saddens me more that many woman are brainwashed by this male dominance over woman.

I am male but i have always found woman to be equal to man for the simple reason that we are all human. We differ on many levels (biological, reasoning etc) but i'm happy we do for it defines the fine line and makes life more interesting.

Vasska, did you read the rest of the thread?

Guess it was not your answer that had to be quoted. My bad. I probably skipped to fast through the topic and did not see some of the other people who also questioned the question. So my bad again. However i still find my answer even tough it might be written in a slightly angry tone than necessary to be the answer i will stand by.

I have read all the responses and comments in this thread and I am still trying to understand the whole point of make-up being the Westernized burka. Personally, as a woman, I wear make-up to bring up the features of my face that I believe to be my best assets. It has nothing to do with my hiding who I am or what image I want to project, and definitely no religious statements are expressed through my wearing mascara...

As for women wearing the burka, whether it be by choice or imposed by the religious beliefs of their peers, I do think it could be a very interesting point to discuss but only if a woman wearing the burka would be a participant in this discussion.

But that's just my opinion...

i'm new but i would say this eems to me a totally a valid and interesting topic for discussion.
i get really pumped about women's studies so i'll chime in and say i can definitely see the connection you are trying to make between burkas and make-up. there are some key differences in the purpose between the two but they have in common that they are a result of social conditions that socially construct women as inferior and sexual objects for men. the difference being that with the burkas we are talking about a husband not wanting anyone else to see even a hint of his wife's beauty, while with make-up (talking western culture here) women seek to gain more worth by attempting to enhance their looks with make-up. which in my opinion the need for women to wear make-up shows an underlying problem of how much importance is placed on a woman's appearance. this fuels the objectification and sexual discimination they already face a lot of as it is.
its clear that make-up and burkas are also things that limit the freedom of women to be appreciated in their natural state. of course make-up isn't a super extreme limitation but it does take a lot of time out of a woman's day and is something she constantly has to worry about in the back of her mind. and even though make-up isn't a mandatory thing there is definitely a lot of social pressure and conditioning starting in childhood, that make women feel like wearing make-up is a part of what it takes to successfully be a woman.

Something to do with vanity? Then sure burka and make-up are perhaps relevant. Maybe the vanity of being 'good' or the vanity of proffering up the face as the focal point of a woman, both seem quite vain in a way, but then Islam is very much obsessed with vanity, in fact religion in an objective sense is just like make-up for the mind - vanity meeting providence.