A quote

@cjames phil,

Jesus' words in Matthew 10:32-39

"Whoever acknowledges me before men, I will also acknowledge him before my Father in heaven. But whoever disowns me before men, I will disown him before my Father in heaven.

"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to turn
" 'a man against his father,
a daughter against her mother,
a daughter-in-law against her motherinlaw-
a man's enemies will be the members of his own household.'

"Anyone who loves his father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me; and anyone who does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.

I think the person quoted did not understand the teachings of Christ.

1 Reply

@cjames phil,

Personally I don't think there is a line between us and God, but that we all are God (or have something of God in us.)

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@cjames phil,

cjames wrote:

Personally I don't think there is a line between us and God, but that we all are God (or have something of God in us.)

That's interesting. Why do you think that?

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@cjames phil,

I agree with CJames. The only line of separation is the line that is drawn by us. I've quoted what Jesus said in the Bible in John, so I won't do it again but he made it very clear. The problem is that it is difficult to explain this to someone who is involved in organized Christianity because they generally don't want to listen.

God is omnipotent. God is Creation. God is love. God just is, I AM. We are creation of God and how is it that God can create other than himself? There is no line, it's all about the spiritual communion with God and that is present all around us. However, most people don't even care or have time to consider it. There is only One source. God is as much present in us as he is in the stones in the sea. God is eternal and ONE.

Whatever it is that separates us from God is man made. Just like religions. We cannot find God in a church, we find God within ourselves and once that light is recognized, the journey towards enlightenment has just begun.

I will quote Jesus and this is not science, this is the words of Jesus

Quote:

John 17

20 "My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21 that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22 I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one: 23 I in them and you in me. May they be brought to complete unity to let the world know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me. 24 "Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world. 25 "Righteous Father, though the world does not know you, I know you, and they know that you have sent me. 26 I have made you known to them, and will continue to make you known in order that the love you have for me may be in them and that I myself may be in them."

So according to Jesus in this quote, the 2nd coming of Christ would be the Christ resurrection in heart of men.

Your Jesus doesn't talk of separation, on the contrary, your Jesus speaks of Unity and Oneness. So where is that line?

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@Justin,

Hello To Everybody.thinking Is The Most Important Thing In Life,

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@minaras,

Excellent post Justin! I now go to sleep in an even better mood Smile

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@cjames phil,

Question: Then why did Jesus have to die on the cross?

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@Katherine phil,

Let's go to the most common verses in all of Scripture: John 3:16

Quote:

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.

This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.

Question: If there is no separation, what do we need to be saved from?

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@cjames phil,

Ourselves... our thoughts... our minds... our own worst enemy. That Light you describe is the one single source of all of life. The only one ingredient that creates all is that Light you speak of. Mankind is not only surrounded by that light but that light is also present within him. If man doesn't tap into that light or recognize that light and seeks his answers from an organized religion, that light, while still there goes unnoticed.

Quote:

The verse occurs in a narrative in third chapter of John taking place in Jerusalem, when Nicodemus, a member of the ruling council, comes to talk with Jesus, whom he calls Rabbi. Jesus's "miraculous signs" have convinced him that Jesus is "...from God". In reply Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again" (5-6). Jesus John 3:16 summarizes Jesus' lesson to Nicodemus: that belief in Jesus is the path to eternal life. In this passage, Jesus proclaims himself the Messiah and lays out important aspects of Christian theology. This shows a contrast with the Mark, for instance, in which Jesus often tries to keep his divinity secret until his final trip to Jerusalem.

1 Reply

@cjames phil,

cjames wrote:

"My belief is that the truth is a truth until you organize it, and then becomes a lie. I don't think that Jesus was teaching Christianity, Jesus was teaching kindness, love, concern, and peace. What I tell people is don't be Christian, be Christ like. Don't be Buddhist, be Buddha like. " - Dr. Wayne W. Dyer

Discuss

To be Christian, is by definition; To be Christ-like.
All truths are the truth to you, until you make your own decision whether or not to believe it. Once you have decided to believe one thing, then the other becomes the lie.
Jesus taught people how to live a spiritually enhanced life through the teachings of his father, and to live by example to others in his dealings with mankind while he strode across the Earth showing us how to live our lives in the most fruitful way possible.
Even if you are Buddhist, Taoist, Atheist, or even completely ignorant of religion; if you live your life according to the teachings of the bible, then you will have a life worth living, and one that people will remember you for.
If you do not go to church every Sunday, you will not go to some eternal pit of damnation...a god of love and mercy would never inflict such torment on a person for such a minor misgiving. Especially if they are truthful in their dealings with others, and walk the way that was taught to us in the bible, then that is what he desired for us in the beginning, and there is no reason why that person would not benefit from it.

1 Reply

@Justin,

I asked why cjames why he said what he said because I agree, but only after we are saved in Christ. Until then we stand condemned. John 3 proves that is the undeniable council of Scripture.

What are we all saying here? Can we agree that it is the council of Scripture that whatever it is that we need saving from, we agree that it is through faith in Jesus Christ that we receive that salvation? And doesn't Scripture also state that we are condemned until we receive this salvation?

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@Aristoddler,

Aristoddler wrote:

To be Christian, is by definition; To be Christ-like.
All truths are the truth to you, until you make your own decision whether or not to believe it. Once you have decided to believe one thing, then the other becomes the lie.
Jesus taught people how to live a spiritually enhanced life through the teachings of his father, and to live by example to others in his dealings with mankind while he strode across the Earth showing us how to live our lives in the most fruitful way possible.
Even if you are Buddhist, Taoist, Atheist, or even completely ignorant of religion; if you live your life according to the teachings of the bible, then you will have a life worth living, and one that people will remember you for.
If you do not go to church every Sunday, you will not go to some eternal pit of damnation...a god of love and mercy would never inflict such torment on a person for such a minor misgiving. Especially if they are truthful in their dealings with others, and walk the way that was taught to us in the bible, then that is what he desired for us in the beginning, and there is no reason why that person would not benefit from it.

I am sorry, Aristoddler. But this is not correct according to Scripture. John 3:16 below says that we are already condemned. All of us. Not for missing church, but for denying the salvation that has been freely given at the highest cost. If you would like to believe otherwise, you do so out of your own imagination and projecting your own ideals on God, not by any reference we have to Jesus and His purpose.

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@cjames phil,

I think you're missing what I'm trying to say, Kat.
We are condemned to die, since that is the punishment that God gave Adam and Eve, since they left the Garden of Eden.
Therefore, we are born into a sinful world, and being children of Adam and Eve, we are born into sin.
The sins that we do to others and to ourselves during the course of our lives are forgiven by the act of us dying...unless we directly abandon the Holy Spirit until death.
However, a merciful god would not condemn someone past death for past transgressions if they were to live a life according to the bible's teachings, when it comes to living a healthy lifestyle, not lying, not stealing, being a clean person, and generally following all the rules.
If I choose to live my life without embracing religion, but remain a good person, why should God punish me for not being bad?

Aside from that, if I don't believe in God, then does that prevent me from following the non-religious teachings of Christ?

1 Reply

@Aristoddler,

Matthew 18:8
If your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life maimed or crippled than to have two hands or two feet and be thrown into eternal fire.
Matthew 18:7-9 (in Context) Matthew 18 (Whole Chapter)
Matthew 25:41
"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
Matthew 25:40-42 (in Context) Matthew 25 (Whole Chapter)
Matthew 25:46
"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."
Matthew 25:45-46 (in Context) Matthew 25 (Whole Chapter)
Mark 3:29
But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin."
Mark 3:28-30 (in Context) Mark 3 (Whole Chapter)
Mark 10:17
[ The Rich Young Man ] As Jesus started on his way, a man ran up to him and fell on his knees before him. "Good teacher," he asked, "what must I do to inherit eternal life?"
Mark 10:16-18 (in Context) Mark 10 (Whole Chapter)
Mark 10:30
will fail to receive a hundred times as much in this present age (homes, brothers, sisters, mothers, children and fields-and with them, persecutions) and in the age to come, eternal life.
Mark 10:29-31 (in Context) Mark 10 (Whole Chapter)
Luke 10:25
[ The Parable of the Good Samaritan ] On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. "Teacher," he asked, "what must I do to inherit eternal life?"
Luke 10:24-26 (in Context) Luke 10 (Whole Chapter)

The counsel of Scripture is an eternal death that we need saving from, not just the death of our mortal bodies. The eternal death was taught by Jesus.

The mercy of God is what God displayed when He sat on His hands while His Son was beaten beyond recognition and nailed to a Roman cross to purchase you back from eternal death. I'm not sure what else we can expect from Him once we wave an audacious hand of rejection toward that great sacrifice based on His mercy. If I buy a prisioner's freedom and that prisioner refuses to cash the check, MY mercy is not on the line, the prisoner's lack of good sense is.

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@cjames phil,

Quote:

The mercy of God is what God displayed when He sat on His hands while His Son was beaten beyond recognition and nailed to a Roman cross to purchase you back from eternal death. I'm not sure what else we can expect from Him once we wave an audacious hand of rejection toward that great sacrifice based on His mercy. If I buy a prisioner's freedom and that prisioner refuses to cash the check, MY mercy is not on the line, the prisoner's lack of good sense is.

I had no idea God displayed himself sitting on his hands while his son was beaten. We are all Sons of God and Jesus tried to explain that. When the disciples were going to part and seek God, Jesus stopped them.

Psalm 82:6
"I said, 'You are "gods"; you are all sons of the Most High.'
Psalm 82:5-7 (in Context) Psalm 82 (Whole Chapter)
John 10:34
Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your Law, 'I have said you are gods' ?
John 10:33-35 (in Context) John 10 (Whole Chapter)

We can go back and forth quoting the Bible and different interpretations of it or interpretations of it's parables. It's been changed so many times over the years and every time it is changed, the meanings and interpretations change. One person will see the glass half full, where they other will see it half empty... even though it is the exact same glass.

Everything that I've read from the Bible and the teachings of Jesus on top of the deep prayer and meditation on the content, my inner voice tells me that the only separation we have from God (I AM), is the separation each of us creates. My interpretation of the teachings of the Jesus are rather simple. His message was for unity. His message was that if we hurt another man, we hurt God as well as ourselves because God is. God is creation. God is omnipresent. Jesus discovered this truth, uncovered this truth, lived this truth and then proved it by his resurrection and ascension which solidified that truth. Jesus didn't seek the truth in a Church, Jesus sought that truth within and then goes on and describes how we too can find that truth and that Universal One Light which man didn't see.

So if the message of Jesus was Unity and Oneness and loving your neighbor just as he loved us, then who are we to say that there is separation when Jesus described differently. We also have to remember that back in the days when Jesus was teaching these things and saying the things he said, he was saying to a group of people that did not have the intellectual capacity that our children have today. As the clock keeps ticking, each generation is smarter and more capable than the last.

The things we do today... speaking on the internet, riding around in cars, talking on cell phones, flying in airplanes... these all would have been interpreted 2000 years ago as miracles of God and certainly if the technology present today would have been available to those thousands of years ago, the miracles of today would far outweigh the miracles demonstrated by Jesus. That technology wasn't present and didn't all of the sudden become present, it was created by the genius within man that most of us are unwilling to uncover. All of it is a miracle and all of it is creating daily and evolving daily. We co-create our own existence because we have the light of God within us and as each century passes, we get closer and closer to the knowing we are One.

If we are separate from the God that created us in his image as mind, body and spirit (God creates what he is, just like we create what we are), in the form of energy that empowers us, then we are separate because we've been led to believe we are. So we proceed throughout our lives with that belief. Not knowing that all the resources in the Universe are available to to each and every one of us equally. We are the Creation and we are Creating and always will. God created himself when he created mankind... I don't believe he could create other than himself.

My God is not some broad shouldered deity that floats down from a place called heaven every once in a while to see what's going on. My God is always present and My God exists in all things. How do I know this? Because I pray and because Jesus made it perfectly clear.

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@cjames phil,

Then you're decision is made. I enjoyed this discussion! Thank you!

1 Reply

@Katherine phil,

Justin, I share your beliefe. God is pure love, creativity, devotion and beauty. And God is everywhere, and forever. And therefore I know, that this is not life, because I am God, and God is forever and life is forever. Death does not exist. I am a spiritual being in a human body.

I know this body of mine will one day die. But does this mean that I will die? No! God is shapeless. God is energy, formed on love, beauty, creativity and goodness. God is shapeless therefore eternal. I can never be divorced from God, because I am God.

My body is not me, but I use it. I am eternal and in one with God. Therefore I don't fear death, because I know it is not the end. This cognition makes me feel the security, and relief, I get from knowing I am forever.

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@cjames phil,

Katherine - My decision? I'm not seeking to make my own decision I'm seeking truth and God. It's not something as simple as a decision. Your response could have been worded it like this and it may have been more accurate:
[INDENT]My decision is made. I enjoyed this discussion! Thank you!
[/INDENT]
By the way, I really appreciate you sharing your testimony. I think everyone has a story that can touch the lives of others. Thank you for sharing.
_______________________
Cjames, you are right. For those who truly seek the Light of God, we don't have to look very far to find it. It surrounds us with all those things you said.

Great discussions. And, I'm not trying to impose my beliefs on anyone here. That's what Religions do. I'm only trying to explain that there is nothing that separates us from God other than us. If there's a line, we've drawn it. If there's an obstacle, we've placed it. If there's a doubt, we've created it.

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@cjames phil,

Quoting scripture is quoting what other men and women say God said; how can we be sure these are the true sayings of God? Each religion and branch takes what they want to bolster the belief system of that group. Many books of the Bible were forbidden or just plain left out for political reasons of the time.

There is so much mystery about our very existence and what it may mean to us and to the planet, but the devout do not seem to want to find facts. Something as simple as the fact the names have been changed; the people of the Bible are supposed to be Jews, yet their names have been anglecized. How many people named Jesus were alive at the time of Jesus? Perhaps we don't even know his real name? Do you know a lot of Jewish people names Mary and Joseph, Matthew and Mark? These are not the names of that time historically, as near as I can tell. These may seem like trivial questions, but belief on faith alone in some other mortal's interpretation of God's word must be suspect.

To me, this is the struggle of the seeker/believer to winnow out the wheat from the chaff. No religion should dissuade their followers from seeking the truth as best we can determine it, but a scientific endeavor to attempt to do that usually meets with stern resistance from those who wish to accept the truth as delivered to them by other men/women. Just my opinion.

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