@boagie,
boagie wrote:Irish,
Your a real cop!O'Well you have just taken a very large leap up in my estimation,I have the deepest respect for the boys blue.You are of course right about the nature of conflict,you have my apology if I got a bit testy,though I thought I sensed a little testy on your end as well.
You seemed to have difficult with the idea that in the presence of knowledge there is no need for faith,it is only logical if you think a moment.If I know something to be true,why would I need the help of faith.Knowledge and faith create an oxy moron.You are the better man if you do not take things personally,I,I am afraid to often do,character flaw no doubt,and in the passion of the moment sometimes say regetable things.Indeed as a police officer I could see where discipline would prove the virtue and carry over into other realms.
I am a little amused at your wrap up though,my life long friend is a retired police officer and a born again Christian,you get the **** he is spared.I have often heard that logic from my friend,if I am wrong there will be no consequences,if you are wrong your ass will burn in hell.The diffirence in approach is this,I do not will myself to believe in what is most pleaseing to me,and have never understood this process in others.My friend has to ignore a great deal and avoid learning a good deal to stay on his straight and narrow path.In some respects his faith seems to strengthen him for life's struggle but certainly does not do much for the intellect,so many books to avoid.
I am aware however that there must be some very large differences between believers as my friend could never tolerate and intense dialogue, it simply would never get off the ground.I value his friendship more than being right, so the topic is avoided.My friend to understands his bible in the literal sense,he does not believe in evolution and until just a few years ago he thought slavery was alright as long as the slaves were black,the bible tells him so.Well I don't think either of us is going to change our positions but perhaps mellow out a bit.
Update:Religion seems to think it should be respected by all,even those who do not agree,and that it had for sometime,the degree to which it has become political has change all that.The church from my perspective should make up its mind whether its business is spiritual or political, if it choses political or even both,it then should be treated as a political organisation,political entity/possiable enemy--the American Taliban.
Yes sir, I am a Deputy Sheriff, but I was educated at Ohio University, with a major titled "An Astronomy Concentration in Physics" and a minor in Geology. I had to leave college in the third year for family problems. So you see, I don't shy away from knowledge, I seek it out.
In college, the majority of my professors did not meddle in the topic of religion, but I suspect they were agnostic or atheist.
One professor, a Geologist, spent the first week spewing forth atheistic sermons, which I felt was not only uncalled for, but a waste of everybody's tuition for the sole fact we were there to study
Geology, not his religious views. I would have felt similarly slighted if he had preached creationism. I can compartmentalize, and I see scientific knowledge as the way that God created this universe.
I had as much problem with clergy who dismisses science, as I have with professors who dismiss religion. Actually, I don't see where the two (science and the Bible) conflict, ....when taken in context. The Biblical account in Genesis is a very good way to express the Nebular Cloud theory and early Earth history, to an ancient readership. Chronologically, its order is perfect.
So yes, I disagree with your premise, from a personal point of view that knowledge will cancel faith. Science is what it is, a culmination of knowledge, which admittedly must be tweaked as we find new facts. And, Religion is what it is, a culmination of wisdom, which must be read in the context of which it was given. Then the two are not in conflict, I see them like a body and soul.
Its not a matter of
willing myself to believe, I simply see it differently than you, and have drawn a different conclusion than yours.
The only folk I have little tolerance for are Islamists. I have no respect for that cult, because of the barbaric nature of its canons, rape, slavery, and murder, rather than a message of forgiveness, not only layed out by its founder but also executed by him. Mohamed was a serial rapist, pedophile, and mass murderer. His legacy is a world tragedy, and has only brought horror to us all.
I seriously never felt testy with you, it could have just been my bluntness showing through. I have several atheist friends, they are good people, even if I think they are misguided. I'm used to receiving alot worse than what you were dishing, ....in fact, I do this to relax
"God* does not play dice with the universe" Einstein on the Uncertainty Principle.
*Spinoza's God
