How does one know God without religion?

Better: God is inthe heart of everyone.

When one of us is at the bottom of their life, you could say they have "lost their mind." But, no, it's that their mind has dropped into their heart. They then speak and live, from the heart. Have you never seen or listened to such a person?

How does one know God without religion?

So the only way you know that the Bible is the word of God comes from the Holy Spirit? But, if I may be so bold, is not the Holy Spirit, God? So in this case you are saying that God gave you this knowledge? Is this not begging the question precisely because I asked you to prove that God exists, and yet you are assuming that, well, God exists? You do realize that is fallacious correct?

This is of course assuming that you think that Jesus, the Holy Spirit, and God the Father are all three distinct entities and yet identical (which might I add makes no sense whatsoever. If two, three, four, or n amount of things are identical to each other, then there is really only one thing).

So at this juncture you have to either A) Come up with a new argument as to how you know the Bible is the Word of God B) Ditch the Trinity or C) Some other recourse of action that requires something nonsensical (or perhaps not-so nonsensical).

Good day.

Ding an Sich

thanks for the reply

Though I understand that the trinity doesn’t make sense to you, but consider.

Don’t you have to be present in the world, for your will to be heard in the world? Then why would God who is Spirit be Present in Spirit for His Will, the Father (Creator of all things, hence father of all things) to be heard, His Word, be so nonsensical? When it’s like one’s own presence in the world.

Quote:

How does one know God without religion?

It can not be done very well.....God is a creation of the collective mind as much as we are created by God. Without Religion (linking back to the spirit of our ancestors) we can not know God. We can have an individual spiritualism, and many do these day, and these people often call something God, but being detached from the past this can not be the God.

Why consider something that is epistemologically unsound? I accept the logical, as well as metaphysical, assertion that a=a. Why would I accept in addition to this the axiom a=~a? Why would I even consider this?

Well that all depends on whether or not there is a "will" which is something you would have to prove.

And what on earth is "Spirit"? I feel as though I am reading Hegel all over again.

The reason why it is nonsensical is due to the fact that Jesus is God and yet they have different properties. God the Father never took on human form, and yet His son, who happened to be himself (assuming that Christ is all God and all man) took on human form. So he took on human form and did not take on human form, which is a contradiction. Regardless of the Word, regardless of His Presence on earth, the Trinity has to be dealt with, because it implies so many absurdities.

Further, how can a being who is outside the world speak in the world?

Logic and reason has it’s place in our society among men, and is valuable to say the least. But is it the physical result of satisfaction? Logic and reason is used in the service of decision making to accomplish a will, an expectation, a desired result. However, logic and reason is not the result that satisfies, nor the will it serves. Some understand logic and reason, but all understand the satisfaction in eating, and breathing. We are all born into need and want, and know that it is our own will, to be satisfied therein. To eat and be satisfied is a knowledge experienced, which does not require contemplation to be true. Though the digestion thereof, is a part of the process, which allows one to eat again.

It’s not rocket surgery, nor brain science. Not all things that exist, require man’s logic and reasoning in order to exist.

There is such a thing as mind over matter, but it is only over what it can take charge of. And there is much more in existence then the mind, or what is in the mind, that the mind can not take charge of. And if it is true that just because some one thinks something doesn’t make it true. Then the mind can’t prove nothing is true, it can only realize something is true. The mind can’t control, or prove what is, it can only come to the realization of what is.

Since the result of God’s Will is Life everlasting in His Presence, why is that a problem for you? If the logic and reasoning you are using comes for those who do not know the Living God, then how could that logic and reasoning ever reveal the Living God to you? I can not offer you what is not mine to offer. Which would be the proof that there is the Living God, or that Jesus is the Christ or the Presence of God is truly knowable. Only God has that to offer, the Knowledge of His Presence in the world. And His Judgement is the result. That’s why that word “repent” is always there.

Truth is agreed to, and Mercy is asked for.

That is true. But what does it have to with you trying to prove the existence of God which might I add you still have not done?

Ding an Sich wrote:

That is true. But what does it have to with you trying to prove the existence of God which might I add you still have not done?

Ding an Sich
thanks for the reply

That is true, I can’t prove the Presence of God with words, nor am I, nor anyone else is required to, that’s your requirement, not God’s. God proves the Presence of God with His Presence. I might try to persuade you to consider the possibility, that God is no farther then one’s own heart, but to find out whether that is true or not is on you. I am not in control of you. I can't make you do, what you refuse to do.

The only validity your ever going to find that God is, is to call upon the name of the Lord Jesus yourself. It ain’t true until you know, that you know, that you know. (As some try to explain it) It ain’t on me to prove that there is a God, as some believe should be. Man doesn’t prove God, God proves man.

It is a delusion to think that the mind can prove what made it. When what made it proves it to be, what it is made to be.

I never said you were in control of me; such a notion is abusrd.

What I want is a proof for the existence of God.

You keep talking about Him and presupposing Him even though you have yet to prove His existence.

And furthermore, man does have to prove God to others; this where Apologetics, a defense of the faith, arises.

God does not have to prove man. Assuming that God (the Judeo-Christian one) created the world, He would not need to prove to himself what He created.

Assuming that God is all-knowing, the question of certainty would never be raised, nor doubt for that matter. God does not ask himself, "How do I prove man?" Conversely, man does have to prove God, either from a deductive or inductive method.

And even if God could show himself, could we ever really speak of it?

Pemerson wrote:

Better: God is inthe heart of everyone.

When one of us is at the bottom of their life, you could say they have "lost their mind." But, no, it's that their mind has dropped into their heart. They then speak and live, from the heart. Have you never seen or listened to such a person?

So how does any of this prove that God "is in the heart of everyone"? Are you trying to make a connection between God and Mind? Are you trying to make some appeal to experience to show that God "is in the heart of everyone"? Really, what are you trying to say? :-/

Ding an sich,
It seems that to require proof of the existence of God is to lack faith in His existence. I do not have such a faith, but, then, I do not need to believe in God. Indeed, if there is some ultimate divinity I must actually experience it directly rather than believe IN it.