Adam and Eve

I see your point about taking a cousin for a wife, that is plausible. And I see your point about the Jewish ancestry. Even though I can state that Cain said to God, "they will kill me", when he is sent to wanderer, why would he think of others when there is only 4. I can also state that having the name "Jewish" added in the future does not mean they are not of the same linage. But that is all semantics. The old testament is perfectly designed for endless arguments in its favor and can never be successfully argued.
I should have not said certain, because that is against my religion.
But I will say after studying most of the belief systems on Earth, they all are told with their ancestors as the main characters. And there is nothing wrong with that in my mind.

And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew.

It clearly shows that Seth was born after Cain slew Able. Cain was apparently banished soon after he slew Able judging by the way the tale is told. Therefore, if he married in the land of Nod and it was a relative it would have had to have been a neice through Able or a sister through Adam.

I personally do not believe either of those as I firmly believe the Adam and Eve story is the story of the first humans with modern level consiousness. I believe there were many post modern humans in the world just as archeology indicates that the human race has been here for far longer than the lineage in the bible would indicate IF the bible was indeed talking about the actual creation of the physical form of humans and it's close predecessors.

Also, the fact that it refers to Cain building a "city" would also indicate that it isn't relatives that Cain married and found in the land of Nod. Even an ancient city would have to be far more people than could have been generated in a few hundred years, even by multiple wives with huge families.

DP, than you as well for your reply and I apologize for taking so long to get back but this week I'm a roofer. So many posts to respond to and so little time to do it. I want to respond though and not leave this hanging.


Sure, man looks up to and loves many things and I agree with you. Churches have done the exact same thing for centuries and look at what it's created. All one has to do is look at the world around him and the results of Religious dogma can be found everywhere.



Do you know how many people were chosen by God in those days, (or claim to have been)? Do you have any idea how many submissions there were when it came time to form the Bible? Not all was accepted and it was the ego of man who decided what was to go into the Bible and what was not. Man decided which words were from God. Everyone wanted a piece of the action at the time because they had the exact same questions that we have now.

From what Jesus taught, God has chosen us all.


The word of God is all around us DP.


If God is not creation, the please explain what God is to you. Is he a big guy with a mountain of clay and then he builds each one of us? How did God create us if it wasn't through his 'WORD'?

You say that of him and through Him, are all things... Wouldn't that provide indication that God is the omnipresent source of all creation? Sounds like he is one hand but on the other he isn't.


Are the weak blessed?... I don't see that at all. Jesus didn't teach us to be weak, he taught us to be ONE! One with our fellow man! The weak actually the idolatry of other men.

The weak create a God separate from themselves so that they may embrace a faith that makes them feel better... always questioning themselves but never letting anyone know. The weak follow the footsteps of other men that have traveled before them and worship rather than discover. They pray for forgiveness and mercy rather than display this in their actions with their fellow man. The weak don't claim any control and can therefore cast blame.

You say that we aren't in control... We aren't? This is a typical cop-out in Religion. Look at what we've controlled and what we've done to our world. God has given us enough rope to hang ourselves if we really want to do that and we control it.

Your thoughts and your decisions have control of your own self and the world in which you create around you. If you have no control, then Armageddon is just around the corner as it's been for thousands and thousands of years... The sky is going to fall and you have no control over this so why do anything about it?

On one hand, Jesus came to fulfill the law of the Old Testament and that is the focus for many. They are so heavily focused on what Jesus came here to do that they forget the message that Jesus actually brought with him.

We have the trinity which is God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. These are all one thing but it's easy for religion to divide this with disregards to the teachings of the very man they worship... Jesus!

Jesus spoke of eternity, what I'm understanding from above, in summary, is that you are here... you have no control over anything and it's time to repent and ask for forgiveness and mercy.

I beg to differ. The second coming of Christ is the resurrection of Christ consciousness within man. That will only happen when we pray and meditate in the way that we were taught by the same man who fulfilled the the prophecy of the old testament... whoa!

This is kind of... trailing off from Adam and Eve.... Sorry... back to it.

What difference does it make in your life today, what Adam and Eve did?

Whoa is right... took the words right out of my mouth. I am absolutely shocked and stunned to hear someone else say the same thing i have recently come to as a "revelation" in my own understanding of things. This is the first time i have heard anyone else speak of this...

P.s.- sorry as well for going off topic but i couldn't let this go by without addressing it.

PoPpAScience
Though I do have a tendency to want to fill in what may seem to be planks with preconceived notions and my own ideas. From where I have to see, if it says it, it says it, if it don't, it don't, I have to rely on this. When there is question or speculation of scripture.

If I may ask, why the study of religions on the earth? I admit, in some cases I wish I had done the same.
******************************
******************************
TwilightEyes
Just for the record, Cain was marked so no one would want to slay him for the curse, if anybody did so. That did not mean that Cain was restricted to the land of Nod, only that he lived there and built a city. He could have traveled anywhere and found a wife for the mark that was on him. And it never said, the land of Nod is where he found a wife.

Just for grins, what if the truth is the other side of the coin. If researchers classify mankind as primates, who is to say that what is found is not an extinct primate, which does not necessarily prove them to be mankind. Adam and Eve where made to live according to what God tells them, that is what makes them and us Man, not otherwise.

And the Lord's day is what He said and He did and He saw that it was good, not sunrise and sunset. According to Genesis there was no sun and moon and such until after the third day.

Let me throw this one at you. If the Lord says that a day is like a thousand years and a thousand years are like a day. It could be; There are 365,000 days in a thousand years. And each one of those 365,000 days are like a thousand years, so on and so forth. And of corse visa versa. That would mean any amount of time desired to accomplish what is said and done, and to see that it is good. A day of the Lord. Not our's, His.

******************************
******************************
Justin
roofing is not one my favorite jobs, hope it went well.
(Once again I apologize for posting scripture)

On religion and or dogma, you have seen my postings on the " in the Kingdom of God there is no religion" so you can be assured that we agree on that. I myself, will do my best to refrain from bad mouthing the church, but I don't dispute your sentiment toward the church, or those who proclaim themselves christians and have no Truth in Spirit in them. However, God gives to man, and what man does with that God gives him, he must answer to God for. Which is true in all cases of mankind's relationship to, or with, God, man's Maker.

I don't have to answer to God for what they may do and say but I do have to answer to God for that which I do or say. There are times when that is liberating, and there are times when one feels like a red faced 5 yr old setting in corner for a time out.

Give it some thought, all is given, though still owned by the giver (God). All is the property of God. No one can take anything from Him. All power is given by God though it is still God's power, even the power to think or love or feel or do or say are God's power given. And for what purpose? God's will be done. Why should it be for any other will? If man loves after what makes him feel good or feel good about himself more then what pleases his Maker, then what should the Maker do about it? If man lives to please himself then surly he does not please his Creator.

Unless he loves his Creator more then himself. And that Love even has to come from God for all is from God. The mercy of God is to allow repentance. Angels can't repent, if they rebel they are cast down into outer darkness with extreme prejudice. But unto man He gives mercy. Why, because He Loves mankind, and has given mankind the capacity to Love Him as Father.
What is born of flesh is condemned only because that which it is born of is condemned by the Word of God to Adam and Eve. But that which is born of God's Spirit lives for ever. Therefore in reference to "as Jesus taught"
(I am only making ref. so you see for yourself that I am not feeding you a bunch of horse dump.)
***************************
In reference to repentance :
****************************
Mt:4:17: From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
Mt:9:13: But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
Lk:13:3: I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.(this one should be read in context)
see John Chapter 3
*************************************
God the Father is only known through and in Jesus.
*************************************
Jn:14:6: Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Jn:4:23: But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
Jn:6:44: No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Jn:6:45: It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
Jn:10:15: As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
Jn:14:10: Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
Jn:15:26: But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
*********
and otherwise
*********
John 10
7: Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.
8: All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.
9: I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.
10: The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
11: I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.


Amongst other things, These are the things Jesus taught, and I refer to John as much as possible because he was considered a beloved of the Lord which the others attested to, and he was there with the Lord, from John the Baptist on.

Man is made to do God's will in the earth by hearing His Word, therefore responsible to God. For the earth is God's possession, and the power to do God's will, is also God's power. If man does his own will with that which is intrusted to him by God then wouldn't that be considered treasonous? I mean man does agree to live on the face of the earth, does he not? Then if so, then repentance is required. And said by God to man that man can receive His Mercy.

Note: what I meant by weak was weak in the sense of the world as in powerless or handicapped.
What I understand your referring to is, ones who seek to feel good or be self righteous, rather than seek the Truth no matter what the Truth is.

Resentment toward anybody or anything can blind you to the Truth. For resentment fosters self justifying wrath, which is usually based on blame, rather then understanding mercy through repentance. Me know this.

And yes I know this is all off subject, sorry about that. you can shoot me later.

I don't believe there's anything wrong with posting scripture. Some forums don't allow it, but sometimes it's necessary to explain something and that's not an issue here.

Do want to get back to this... but I've roofed all day plus 2 hours into the night... I'm beat. FYI, no roofing job is a good roofing job and this is going to be the last roof I ever talk about, because I'm not doing another one in my life! can hardly bend my knees to sit down...

You asked why I studied all the religions. Being immersed in a culture where Christianity was all around me, in Movies, Sunday school in the summer when I'd spend the time as a kid visiting my aunt, Jehovah witness, ect... , I was still an Atheist till I was 23.
At this time I got into martial art training, and being a student of Bruce Lee, who studied the power of Ying and Yang, I also started to read about this force. Studying Ying and Yang lead me into Buddhism. Well, after studying Buddhism and seeing such incredible incites into being human, I needed more. Now I became an Agnostic.
This lead to Vedic traditions, with lead me to thinking more about Being Spirit in nature. This lead me to study the Beliefs of the tribes of the world, who where so entrenched in spirit realms. Especially the fact that no matter how isolated they were, they all believed all most the same things. Now I was a Spiritualist.
This lead back to studying Christianity and Islam to find out why they where so different. This lead me to study Cults, Guru's, Jones town, ect..., in order to understand what leads to the corruption of the mind from teachings of Love and Goodness. This lead to the latest study I did over the last 7 years, Conservatism (right wing) and Liberalism (left wing).
Now there was other studies I did of other teachings like Transcendental Meditation, The Science of mind, ect... . But now, I have started the study of Philosophy, that is why I am here.

I never disputed the reason for the mark. I did say that due to the fact that the bible says that Seth, (Adam and Eves 3rd son) was conceived after the slaying of Able and hence Cains banishment, that if he married a relative (as someone else had suggested) that it would have to be a sister from Adams line or a neice from Ables line (obviously conceived prior to Ables death).

As far as where he took a wife and had a son (Enoch) and then founded the city of Enoch (named after his son) it is fairly clear that it was in the land of Nod. The Bible is fair at listing the comings and goings of people and it doesn't state that he left the land of Nod. However, it is very conceivable that the Land of Nod is an extremely large expanse and possibly even considered ALL the land east of eden at that time.

But the main point i was making was completely missed which was that he founded a city and I find that extremely improbable based on the numbers of people there wouild have been available if all the city dwellers were of Adam and Eve lineage.

This is along the lines of what i was suggesting. That adam and eve is the story of the first sentient humanoids (or some other mental /spiritual benchmark) that could be classified as modern humans and those that Cain encountered were not of the same "kind".

Not sure what version you are quoting but i only use king james version as i like to read as close to original version as possible and interpret the words into modern meaning myself... unless you are paraphrasing yourself. If that's a quote then it seems a bit off from the original.

Now i think i know what you are getting at here... correct me if i'm wrong. That god said "let there be light and there was light" which was on day one. Yet it wasn't until day 4 that he created the lightsa in the sky for day, seasons and so on. So, what was the "light" he created and seperated from the darkness on the first day?

I personally don't buy this extrapolation on the biblical passage that says a thousand human years = 1 day to god. (paraphrased) I would need to see another referrence to back up your calculation. However, I know it is commonly accepted that "creation days" are longer than the 1000 year days mentioned in peter.

I would like to point out that it says "and the evening and the morning were the first Day" (and so forth). This seems to indicate that creation days were actually 24 hours unless we can justify with scipture or an interpretation that has another meaning for evening and morning. The 1000 year day IS what makes gods statement that if you eat the fruit you will die this day correct and not a contradiction.
******************************
******************************

I know this wasn't directed at me so i hope you don't mind me jumping in on this one.

The way i see it, god was lonely. How would you like to be the only sentient being in the universe. Make a beautiful piece of art or whatever and you want to show it to someone who can appreciate it right?

Are you satisfied showing that art to a computer programed to respond with oohs and ahhs at everything you show it?

Would you be satisfied with a sentient yes man that ohhs and ahhhs out of fear?

Would you be satified to show it to an obsessive lover who will ooh and ahh out of fanatical love?

Or would you only be satisfied if you could show it to many sentients, some of which will appreciate it and some that will hate it. Some will create art you never even thought of and you can love or hate it. In the end i think that is the reason for the creation of good, evil and free will. God may even go as far as to appreciate some of "evils" qualities... or art, if for no other reason than for the sake of variety.

Justin
I see the body is in full scale protest. I can relate to that.
************
PoPpAScience

I was raise catholic (father's side) and the other side was mormon came to know Jesus as Lord and Savior in a southern baptist church learned there for a while. Went in to the Army and never attended since, other than off and on lately. I have always believed there was and is a God.
I am afraid that the arena of philosophy may be the last true open conversation in the search for the Truth in the western culture.


You mention tribal, since I have moved out here in the west there are reservations and I run across some of there beliefs of old and what they think now. They still, as far as I can tell, believe that man is a spiritual being in the human experience, as they say. The Navaho in there reservation seem to be a friendly and peaceful type of people.
**************

TwilightEyes
Sorry if I misunderstood you.

"Sentient humanoids" (different) if it is possible that Cain lived in the neighborhood of 700 yr's why the insistence that Cain had a wife other than descendants of Adam and Eve. I mean from my point of view, that and a buck fifty will get you a cup of coffee. (No offence).


"So, what was the "light" he created and seperated from the darkness on the first day?"
The first revelation of His Word to creation.

My later comments were more of on a lighter note. I don't think Peter was implying that a day to the Lord is exactly 1000 yr's. More of a day can be as long as He sees fit. I honestly believe that all of this from the fall of Adam and Eve until Rev 21 is simply the 8th day.

And yes I would agree that God would desire to share that which He is and has with those who love Him. There are some, in their reading recognize that the Lord likes to amaze His people.

This here tread is the perfect example of why Humanity is so far behind in its evaluational path. 90 percent of the people on earth support and argue for one religion or Ideology or another. And it boggles my mind why they can never see that they believe in their religion/ideology because they were born in it's environment. If you born in Egypt you be a muslim, born in China a Buddhist or atheist, born in India a Hindu, ect... . and because you are the type of person you are you would promote and argue for your religion with the same intensity.
Being one of the very small percentage of Humans that got to live with out becoming trapped in a box of one religion/ideology or another. I have a very hard time rapping my brain around what it must be like to be terrified to lift the lid of the box and look out around at the other religion/ideology's around me.
I guess being a rebel of sorts helps. A long time ago when I tried to justify, the what if I am wrong, and the old testament is true, what should I do. Well I made the decision that if God is what is implied in the old testament, then I would rather burn in the hottest of hells, before I would bow down and worship a God that is a "petty dictator". We are humanity, and over half the people on this planet believe we are "spirits in a material world", and have the right to live freely as "Good" and "Logical" people.
The biggest question is how in Gods name do we free those that are trapped in the box of their birth place, so that we can become one people of free will.

PoPpAScience

Ok then what's true free will?

Would it be do say think feel whatever, and if so would it also be to do what ever comes to mind? You have that free will to do what ever comes to your mind and you feel like doing that is within your reach. So why aren't you unloading assault weapons into anyone that's ticking you off? Why aren't out breaking laws? Doing as you please to whom ever for what ever might please you?

Don't mean to jump in DP, but what kind of question is this?

Why would someone want to assault another and break laws, just because they have the free will to do so? Maybe a little clarification.

...trailing off of Adam and Eve.

Mr Justin--- hope the grunts and groans are subsiding by now.

If your concerned that I might be advocating such things, the answer is absolutely not. But it is my contention that the dogma of "free will" (which usually comes up in the subject of Adam and Eve) is not all it's cracked up to be. Many reject, reason for value, with free will (the excuse for not valuing anything more then one's own want) so if some one wants to stay in the box of free will, then the lets open it. But I am hoping for a reply first.

The worshiping (or loving) of "free will" more than anything else, destroys families, people, ways of life, nations, so on and so forth. And I believe, the foundation of what would be considered, the criminal mind. Though I could be wrong, but I am willing to prove it out, starting with a pure (or extreme) example of free will.

DP, I guess the topic of free will was not something I was prepared to discuss. I don't ponder on it much to tell you the truth because it's not something that concerns me... Just not a part of my everyday thoughts. So for me to jump from Adam and Eve and belief in the story to Free Will... Well, I haven't studied up on it enough and not topic I'm interested in.

All I know is there's a cause and effect and the cause comes from a single source. I know that I have the ability, (or free will) to make choices as my thoughts and perceptions of life. We could argue about whether or not it's free will but I'd surrender before we got started because to me, it doesn't matter much. Maybe this is because I've never really took the time to study it and what it all means... at this point in my life, I don't seen any need to either.

Most certainly I didn't see advocation of anything in your post, just wanted clarification.

Thank you for your participation in this Adam and Eve discussion, I don't have much time to respond further and hopefully soon I will.

dpmartin... Now that I am back from my once a week, 60 hr, 2800 mile round trip drive that my wife and I do to make the MONEY, I will try to answer your question. During this trip I probably spent 30 to 40 hours contemplating about the subject matter in the post that I wrote, that you reacted to.

Now my first impression to your question and remarks, seem to be just a religious tirate on your part. You know, with out God telling you how to be good, you will turn to free will and do bad. My quick answer to your question would be, if it was a religious tirate, God telling people to be good has never stopped them from being bad, and it has nothing to with free will.

But, I will answer your question in the context that it was a philosophical question your were asking. Let me start by saying that all the statements you made about, thinking what ever one wants, doing what ever one wants, that leads one to doing violent (unloading assault weapons) or destructive acts (destroying families, people, ect...), is the OPPOSITE of free will. The list you gave are all acts of one giving into the "animistic nature" of the human we exist in. True Free Will is when one goes against ones "animistic nature", or ones programed religion/ideology, and acts from the heart and inner mind. When one acts from their inner mind and heart they tend to do good. Both Jesus and Buddha teach this.

Look into your own life Dpmartin, and dare try and tell me, that there has not been times in your life, when the Ego fueled by Emotion was leading you down the path of Badness. But instead you used your Free Will to stop yourself from giving into your "animistic nature". To give into ones animistic nature is an act of weakness. Strength is using Free Will to fight the Ego that is ruled by the Emotions of the Animal. That is why every day animals act on instinct and not free will. dpmartin, do not confuse running wild like and animal, with the act of Free Will.

With out Free Will we would still be just pure Caveman/Sasquatch animal. Free Will is slowly pulling us a way from the animal, to Being, "Spirits in a material world". I feel we are only children when it comes to our Free Will Evolution. We have a long way to go.

Now hopefully you we use Free will to contemplate what I have written here, and not your Animistic Nature (Ego ruled by Emotion) to shut the lid of your box tight, so as to not see any possible worth in my reply.

Thanks for your question dpmartin, it was absolutely perfect. Especially after I just spent so many hours on the road contemplating Free Will.

Back to Adam and Eve. I tried to make a point earlier in this tread, that when studying other cultures and tribes past and present, there is a tendency to use family lineage in their stories on how creation was formed. And that I strongly feel that Adam and Eve where the oldest family members of the people who came to be know as the Jewish people.

PoPpAScience
thanks for the reply, hope I have written this in a understandable fashion.

I can see how you get that point of view especially when the lineage is from Adam to Jesus that is recorded(amongst others). That I will not dispute (in staying with Adam and Eve). But on the other point posted.

I disagree completely, that which is considered free will is not. Because we are bound to that which we love trust and hope in(value most). Be it your family, yourself, your God (if you have one) ones want and desire, so on and so forth. In the example shown you value to survive without incarceration and without the visitation of swat team, more than that which would offend you to think such things, therefore you do not entertain unloading assault weapons no matter what. but if what you love, trust and hope in most was under the threat of violent harm for example your family you would have justification in your heart to us assault weapons, for their sake, because you love trust and hope in them more than anything else,(the value presumed of corse) and would not care about the consequence.

If your working for some corporation and it is to their benefit that you remain employed so that you came feed you loved ones and make the mortgage fine. But if the board/CEO decides that the stock and bonuses they receive are more valuable then your employment. Your out their money is in. But if the board / CEO valued the Truth of God more than their personal profit seeing that there is consequence and would value those who got them there more then cashing in. But since they see no value in God's Word and value their own desire more.

If a young gangster what to be. Values that which he desires more than answering to God. Then yes he will do a drive-by shooting of innocent people just to prove his worth to that which he values which he is bound to for his love trust and hope in. Which is his desire, not the Creator's.

Free will is only in what to love trust and hope in. After that choice you are bound unless you come to the realization of, that which you love trust and hope in requires change. And it is always on your part to do the changing. I will disregard the religious ego stuff, I don't tell you what you are no matter what I may or may not think, but you seems to be obligated to say such at me. Why? Did I call you some thing offensive? Or could it be free will is your faith. ( I do not intent to offend)

The free will so miss conceived dose not realize that the only choices that are available are ones given by the powers that be. If one is to choose to join the Army then they tell you when to sleep were to go when to stop when to pee. Rebel and the consequence is there, so free will is what you value more, to pee when you want because you have free will, or pee when they want you to pee. Therefore you are bound to that which you value (love trust and hope in) valuing ones own want (how it makes you feel) more than anything else is the fall of man.

They, Adam and Eve had the free will to value God's Word or something else. They valued their own desire (how it made them feel) more than the Truth from God. To choose to say no to every thing but the Truth, because you value it the most, will never lead you astray. But to choose to say no to the Truth, and insist on free will, for the love of free will, because it makes one feel good, has its consequence.

In the story of Adam and Eve we see the perfect example of the use of Animal Nature, and not True Free Will.

Genesis 3:

6. When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it.

7 Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they realized they were naked; so they sewed fig leaves together and made coverings for themselves.


Here we see Eve giving in to the Manipulative words of the serpent, and her own desires. Adam with no Free Will to stand up to Eve, and say no I will not eat the Apple no matter how much I desire to, succumbed to the whims of Eve, and ate upon the apple.
Yes, being in absolute servitude to the Word of God kept Adam and Eve in a state of pure animal hood. Yes, disobeying The Word lead them to becoming human. Or, can we actually say, that they learned that they where human all along. "And the eyes of both of them were opened". Now if they could have found away to fend of the desires of the animal, and the manipulative words of others, humanity could have turned out different. I say, it is through the Act of Free Will that they could have started a better world for all to live in.

Now, you can argue that Being like a Bear in the woods (like Adam and Eve in the garden) is what God intended. But, to say that by obeying the Word of god absolutely, we will get back to the garden of Eden, is to miss the lesson of Genesis 3:7. There is no turning back, only moving forward. And I say, it is through the Act of True Free Will, and not Animal desires, that we must use to move forward.

PoPpAScience
************
I use King James Version it is with stood almost 400 yr's of open debate and scrutiny.
Gen 3
6: And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.
7: And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.

Nay, she had the free will and the reason to not entertain what was said in the tree by the serpent. Nothing was stopping her from saying no and walk away. They fell in love with themselves and how it made them feel in response to the lies they where being told, and there went the neighborhood. Also she miss quoted the Word of God.

Gen 3
2: And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
3: But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

What God said:
Gen 2
16: And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
17: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

And Adam was there and did not intervene with a correction, nor did he attempt to get her and him away. But he could have.

God does not wonder about mankind, for He is wonder He did not wonder what they did, nor did He wonder what they would do. It is we who wonder about Him and His wonders. I would not say they ask for forgiveness it is possible that they where not aware until he let them continue in the flesh though according to His Word, He could have destroyed them at that moment but they were ashamed, and were aware that they were up poop creek without and paddle "naked" and helpless. But God's mercy supercedes His commandment. For what wisdom of God would it be to destroy them on the spot when in there repentance they could be redeemed. This the first place in scripture were the Lord tells of His coming.

Gen
15: And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Adam and Eve lived in the presents of God shameless already given the will of God through His Word(note mankind made to know the will of God through His Word) to multiply and replenish the earth and dominate it. How you see that as a lesser state, then men are in now, I have no idea. The eyes that where opened were shame and nakedness. A knowledge they had not before then. Now mankind must be proved in man's own repentance and calling upon the name of the Lord, that he Loves God.
Gen 4
26: And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then began men to call upon the name of the LORD.

It is the knowledge of the Mercy of God ( or the experience of), in the world that brings people to Him. Undeniable, of God only. And who shall come to receive this mercy of God it is those who call upon the name of Jesus in there repentance to Him(God). To be redeemed (restored to walking in the presents of God with out shame.)

Hello all! Sorry I haven't been able to post for such a long time. School and life have me tied up most of the time. I hope no one minds me just jumping in here. . .

I see free will as the ability to act on desires. I like the analogy of the army and being able to pee when you want to. That is the way I see free will. We all have the ability to do, well, whatever is within our ability of doing at any given time. We will ourselves to do something and we are free to do that, whether it is following our inner man, following instructions, or following an animalistic nature (which I believe is the same as our inner man, but that's a whole different discussion).

I'm just going to throw another idea out there about the whole Adam and Eve topic: What is everyone's take on the story as a parable?