Reply Wed 19 May, 2010 07:37 pm
As yet, no sign of any firm commitment toward a manned mission to mars from president Obama.
 
Ragman
 
  3  
Reply Wed 19 May, 2010 08:00 pm
@startrooper177,
So?

I'd much rather see all the money it would take to get a manned mission to Mars earmarked for low-income housing or child nutritional program...or something more useful domestically. What is gained by going to Mars that makes the avg American's life any richer?
startrooper177
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 May, 2010 08:52 pm
It probably will make the 'average householder' a least a bit richer in the long - run. A manned mission to the red planet will accelerate the slowly developing ( at present ) space technology into becoming a 'multy - trillion dollar' industry within 2 decades of a human landing.
kuvasz
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 May, 2010 08:56 pm
@Ragman,
Quote:
What is gained by going to Mars that makes the avg American's life any richer?


What is the purpose of a new born child?

I recognize that analogy can be a poor tool, but NASA created the following technologies that certainly made the average American's life richer.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NASA_Spinoff

1 NASA spin-off technologies

2 Twenty-four products NASA claims as spin-offs

2.1 Health and medicine
2.1.1 Light-emitting diodes (LEDs)
2.1.2 Infrared ear thermometers
2.1.3 Ventricular assist device
2.1.4 Artificial limbs

2.2 Transportation
2.2.1 Aircraft anti-icing systems
2.2.2 Highway safety
2.2.3 Improved radial tires
2.2.4 Chemical detection

2.3 Public safety
2.3.1 Video enhancing and analysis systems
2.3.2 Fire-resistant reinforcement
2.3.3 Firefighting equipment

2.4 Consumer, home, and recreation
2.4.1 Tempur foam
2.4.2 Enriched baby food
2.4.3 Portable cordless vacuums
2.4.4 Freeze drying

2.5 Environmental and agricultural resources
2.5.1 Water purification
2.5.2 Solar energy
2.5.3 Pollution remediation

2.6 Computer technology
2.6.1 Virtual reality research
2.6.2 Structural analysis software
2.6.3 Remotely controlled ovens

2.7 Industrial productivity
2.7.1 Powdered lubricants
2.7.2 Improved mine safety
2.7.3 Food safety

So one could logically expect even greater technological advances directly from programs which goal is to get humans to Mars and returning. And I would rather my tax dollars go towards such programs as opposed to paying multinational agrabusinesses to not plant crops.

Besides;
Quote:
"Ah, but a man's reach should exceed his grasp - or what's a heaven for?" Robert Browning


I believe the future of humanity rests in the stars. I think the faster we learn how to get off the Earth and colonize other places the greater the odds for survival of the species.
0 Replies
 
engineer
 
  2  
Reply Wed 19 May, 2010 09:00 pm
@startrooper177,
We landed on the moon four decades ago. Where is the multi-trillion dollar industry?
kuvasz
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 May, 2010 09:48 pm
@engineer,
Quote:
We landed on the moon four decades ago. Where is the multi-trillion dollar industry?


Whoa, dude, they sell a hell of a lotta' Tang.
0 Replies
 
startrooper177
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 May, 2010 04:21 am
@engineer,
Great! So let's start the process of extraterrestrial inhabitation with the colonisation of the 'red planet'.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Thu 20 May, 2010 05:19 am
@engineer,
engineer wrote:
We landed on the moon four decades ago. Where is the multi-trillion dollar industry?


This is rather unfair. I'm no cheerleader for a Mars mission, but as for "multi-trillion dollar industry," if you are an engineer, do you use an electronic calculator, or do you use a slide rule? Do you have any relatives with arrythmic tachycardia? Do they have a pacemaker implanted? Do you use non-stick cookware in the kitchen? Do you own and use a cell phone? Obviously, you use a computer, whether or not you have a personal computer in the home.

I don't think you've really thought about the extent to which developments of the first decade of the space program has permeated our lives.
engineer
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 May, 2010 06:36 am
@Setanta,
I'm aware of how the spending on technology for the first space program trickled down into numerous industries. If you spend some serious R&D money, you are going to see advancements and that's great. What I find silly is the hyperbole. Multi-trillion dollar space industry? The moon is much more accessible than Mars, has much to offer and we've landed there before, but we haven't been back since 1972. If we go through the extraordinary effort of landing someone on Mars, what's the incentive to do it twice? Mars isn't just a little harder than the moon, it's a couple of orders of magnitude harder. Months of travel each way instead of days, very significant radiation exposure during flight, a deeper gravity well, weather conditions, etc. Solving those problems would undoubtably have numerous spin off technologies, but if there is going to be huge space industry, I doubt it's going to be aimed at Mars when nothing has materialized for moon exploitation over four decades.

What if you took the same amount of R&D money and put it into stem cell research or solar energy development or near space orbital manufacturing or robotic space exploration? Since you don't have to buy interplanetary spaceships, you'd probably get more research for your dollar and similar technology advancements. I'm not saying government shouldn't drive technology research, I just think that manned space travel is a dubious goal, a solution without a problem. We have real, well defined problems we can spend the same money on with real potential to generate new industries and jobs. Mars is heroic but not practical.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 May, 2010 06:52 am
Yes, multi-trillion dollar pay-offs for a Mars mission is certainly hyperbole. Orders of magnitude does not really describe it either--many orders of magnitude. The necessity to shield for cosmic radiation alone puts the cost and the degree of difficulty through the roof. On several threads, i have expressed my doubts about a Mars mission. People who fervently believe in space exploration, and who long to see it in their lifetimes have incredibly unrealistic views about this. Frankly, absent a commercial pay-off which would be "realizable" in a short term, i don't see any value to a Mars mission. You're not going to set up a colony there without enormous expense. The gravity of Mars is probably just sufficient to obviate the micro-gravity problems, but without a magnetic field around the planet, shielding from cosmic radiation continues to be a problem even after you get there. I do think there would be pay-offs, but i doubt they'd be that great, and i doubt they'd justify the expense of such a mission.
0 Replies
 
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 May, 2010 07:31 am
Well, the US could end the "War on Drugs" and probably save enough money in a decade to fund both Mars and Moon missions. And the inner-city youth and third-world suppliers currently involved in the black market could be paid to learn physics instead. That might have a small socio-economic benefit.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 May, 2010 07:33 am
Oh sure . . . propose something sensible . . . sheesh . . .
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 May, 2010 07:34 am
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:
Oh sure . . . propose something sensible . . . sheesh . . .

Sorry, you're right. I don't know what came over me.
0 Replies
 
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 May, 2010 07:43 am
The other option is to have scientists proclaim that the soil and radiation on Mars is good for growing giant Poppies and Coca plants. Then the drug cartels will fund the missions for us.
0 Replies
 
talk72000
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Dec, 2010 08:56 pm
I just saw a dvd Origins by Neil deGrasse Tyson and was surprised by what he noted. Mars interior is not molten so there is no magnetic pole to protect an atmosphere. Mars lost its water probably from the sun storms.

It would be extremely expensive if not impossible to melt Mars' interior to create a magnetic pole. Any way in 2 billion years the Milky Way is going to collide with another galaxy Andromeda.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andromeda%E2%80%93Milky_Way_collision

0 Replies
 
talk72000
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Dec, 2010 03:43 pm
Quote:
Mars does not presently have a global magnetic field but had one early in its life, similar to that of Earth. However, Mars does have very strong crustal magnetic fields, more than 30 times stronger than those of Earth.




http://mgs-mager.gsfc.nasa.gov/

http://www.planetary.org/blog/article/00001710/

http://www.universetoday.com/30538/was-mars-magnetic-field-blasted-away/
0 Replies
 
talk72000
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Jan, 2011 06:43 pm
Thanks for the info. I guess more robotic flights would be the thing to do right now till a more efficient and faster mode of transportation can be invented.
0 Replies
 
talk72000
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Jan, 2011 07:49 pm
After watching all the dvds on the Universe by History Channel I guess the Red Planet would also need a moon to stabilize the climate, install a magnetic pole and a couple of hits from asteroids to up the mass of the Red Planet to give it an Earth-like gravity and also guide a comet for the water. Got to make sure the Earth's orbit and that of the Red Planet don't collide at some point after all the planetary moves.
0 Replies
 
hater
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Jul, 2013 10:24 pm
@startrooper177,
there's no american commitment for a simple reason. we do not belong on mars, there is no food, no water and no air.

no one in their right mind would waste the time sending people to mars. theres nothing there for us!!!!!
0 Replies
 
 

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