@JTT,
JTT wrote:
What could possibly be a more important educational issue?
I'll start with math, science, English, social studies and history. I'm all for educating students on the risks of cancer but I don't think breast cancer trumps every educational priority.
@dyslexia,
Thanks for the clarification. I thought you were suggesting a grammar failure and I was stumped.
@engineer,
engineer wrote:
Thanks for the clarification. I thought you were suggesting a grammar failure and I was stumped.
ok, I'll start looking for grammar failures in your posts.
@engineer,
All important subjects, E, but education is much much more than that. Education is life.
Not to derail the main issue but English, for one, has been badly badly badly mistaught for centuries. What kind of education is that?
@dyslexia,
Quote:engineer wrote:
At the risk of making a fool of myself, what do you think it should be?
I'm thinking that increasing awareness/knowledge of breast cancer should be considered "learning".
I agree with you Dyslexia.
My point is the way that this is being taught.
Any 14 year old kid is going to take this bracelet as a little sexual joke. The result is that some kids are going to be distracted, and others may be made uncomfortable (in a way that has nothing to do with the educational goal).
I am skeptical with the idea that this bracelet constitutes education about breast cancer in any way for a middle school student.
There are so many better ways, and more appropriate ways, to raise the issue of breast cancer. Embarrassing kids or making employees uncomfortable serves no purpose.
@dyslexia,
Thanks, every little bit helps.
@ebrown p,
You're being disingenuous, EBrown, and I don't think that you realize it.
It isn't/wasn't being taught. This important issue was likely raised by some kids. Instead of taking a golden opportunity, the principal chose to make it a sexual joke. He, or other teachers will likely do their preaching in front of the kids then make their own jokes later.
It is a joke, a purposeful joke, as you noted.
Gee, you think that kids are going to be distracted, like that never happens.
A teachable moment to show kids that they do not have to be embarrassed, a teachable moment for those "adults" who are still, at their age, embarrassed by such a benign idea.
If this was "I love a good brain. Let's stop brain cancer/tumors", you'd not be making any complaint whatsoever.
ebrown wrote:Embarrassing kids or making employees uncomfortable serves no purpose.
At least, it should serve a purpose.
Teach the kids what really matters in life and get rid of these dumb, puritanical notions attached to everything sexually connoted..
@JTT,
Quote:You're being disingenuous, EBrown, and I don't think that you realize it.
First, it is impossible (by definition) to be disingenuous without realizing it.
Quote:This important issue was likely raised by some kids. Instead of taking a golden opportunity, the principal chose to make it a sexual joke.
You have obviously not been around 14 year old kids recently.
Quote:
If this was "I love a good brain. Let's stop brain cancer/tumors", you'd not be making any complaint whatsoever.
The point is the use of what will doubtlessly be interpreted by the target audience as a sexual joke. How far would you take this? Should the Humane society be advocating shelter pets with the slogan "Get some free pussy". Or, should some British anti-smoking organization make "Get rid of fags" t-shirts?
The point is that these "jokes" don't add anything to the message. In an educational institution, they are a distraction.
Why can't a serious issue be promoted with serious messaging?
@ebrown p,
Quote:First, it is impossible (by definition) to be disingenuous without realizing it.
Allow me: You're being disingenuous, EBrown, and I don't think that you fully consciously realize it.
I've been around kids of all ages most of my life. I remember well the hypocrisy of my own teachers, the adults around me and I remembered being puzzled as to why.
Quote:The point is the use of what will doubtlessly be interpreted by the target audience as a sexual joke. How far would you take this? Should the Humane society be advocating shelter pets with the slogan "Get some free pussy". Or, should some British anti-smoking organization make "Get rid of fags" t-shirts?
Why should we be worried that the audience should interpret it for what it is? That's the whole point. You keep raising this as if it's some bad idea. It grabs attention in a way that a dull stolid teacher never could. Is the whole point of advertising lost on you?
This slogan is so bloody innocuous and actually so incredible effective; the double meaning of 'keep-a-breast' is a beautiful and meaningful use of language and I doubt that it would take very long at all for kids to move past the jokes onto a real meaningful, deep educational experience.
@JTT,
Quote:Why should we be worried that the audience should interpret it for what it is?
Because...
1) Sexual jokes are inappropriate in an educational environment.
2) This "advertising" doesn't do any good since the people who think these bracelets are funny enough to wear are almost certainly not mature enough to understand why breast cancer is important as an issue.
3) It is needlessly upsetting to some students and to some employees.
4) This has nothing to do with any "meaningful educational experience".
A meaningful educational experience would be to having kids to listen to the stories of breast cancer survivors. Or, you could have them study the reach of the disease or teach about the science of cancer and the research being done.
A juvenile "advertising" slogan is a far reach from meaningful educational experience.
How about real educational experiences without silly jokes that some people find offensive.
I see the banning as unnecessary. But I see the teachers point.
Kids are easily distracted. If a teacher cannot get a student to focus in class because of playing with the bracelet or being unable to keep from wise cracking about them for the time he or she is in that class then I don't see a problem with the teacher asking them to leave them at home. The teacher should be able to expect the student to control themselves while in class. Who cares what they say in the hall?
Banning it just causes more hoopla. That's not such a bad thing in this case - as far as breast cancer awareness is concerned. I just think the choice to ban as a whole was over-reacting. Certainly it does not put the school in a favorable light.
Skimming over posts, I find I agree with ebrown (oh, no, not twice in one year!)
Or I thought I did.. started to explain why and realize I have to back up on that as I think banning the bands is silly stuff. The tittering will pass. I can imagine proscriptions against all bracelets, all political tee shirts, sexist tattoos, whatever - am not sure if I'm for that or against it, will give that more thought. (I'm a product of catholic schools and strict uniform rules, and the University of California system, sometimes a realm of strong causes and protests, another whole subject).
I am breast cancer survivor, so-called, and am not precisely offended by the bracelets; mini-second annoyed would be the better description. As we all know, many of us survivors have no or altered breasts, which virtually always takes some psychological dealing with unless the woman is made of stone, and none are. My first reaction on reading the theme, keep a breast, was a slight repulsion, as so many have not, and some friends haven't 'kept a life'. My second was that they're trying to be cute with a slogan. My third was, maybe it is cute. Fourth, no. Next, maybe it will make one or more of those middle schoolers aware of the disease (one of many, of course), though since many middle schoolers have mothers, some may already be aware. And finally, it's a tempest in a teapot. The science of cancer research, the social aspects of the impacts of disease, all good to talk about - maybe this will impel some talk.
I've also have previous somewhat negative feelings about all the pink ribbon stuff, for various complicated reasons having to do with funding issues. But then I get into questions about the current state of medical research and its manner of funding and that can get me all worked up.
@ebrown p,
Quote:2) This "advertising" doesn't do any good since the people who think these bracelets are funny enough to wear are almost certainly not mature enough to understand why breast cancer is important as an issue.
hmmph... I have worked the Race for the Cure for several years. It isn't uncommon to see teams in memoriam or support of survivors that have similar messages printed on T-shirts or carrying signs.
"A bunch of boobs in support of ______"
"Titters need saving!"
Are you saying 40-70 year old women aren't mature enough to understand breast cancer because they find humor in the slogan they have chosen? Finding humor has little to do with taking it seriously. Sometimes it is so serious humor is the best response.
Maybe you like the administration at the school needs to spend time with people that have survived breast cancer before you judge their slogans.
@parados,
Quote:
Maybe you like the administration at the school needs to spend time with people that have survived breast cancer before you judge their slogans.
It is a little presumptuous of you to assume that either me, or the administration of the schools have not spent time with breast cancer survivors.
The original Article wrote:
Principal Ryan Stevens told The Kitsap Sun the "boobies" reference causes problems in classrooms when some students made inappropriate gestures. He also says some staff members who are breast cancer survivors find the bracelets offensive.
Quote:
Are you saying 40-70 year old women aren't mature enough to understand breast cancer because they find humor in the slogan they have chosen? Finding humor has little to do with taking it seriously. Sometimes it is so serious humor is the best response.
I am saying there is a big difference between 40-70 year old women at a rally and 14 year old kids in school.
Could you understand why a teacher who is a breast cancer survivor might have a problem with these slogans from kids in the classroom accompanied by immature gestures, even though she might appreciate them coming from a supportive adult crowd at a rally?
Context is important... and we are talking about 14 year old kids in an educational environment-- and the teachers (some of whom are cancer survivors themselves) who might not appreciate the tittering.
@ebrown p,
Just to clarify... I am saying keep the education. This is certainly an issue that should be discussed in school. I am just saying to cut out jokes that will almost certainly be misinterpreted as sexual innuendo by middle school students.
@ebrown p,
ebrown p wrote:
2) This "advertising" doesn't do any good since the people who think these bracelets are funny enough to wear are almost certainly not mature enough to understand why breast cancer is important as an issue.
Your statement speaks for itself ebrown. If you want to back off it, then don't attack me for pointing out your statement is asinine. Just back off it it.
@ebrown p,
Quote:I am saying there is a big difference between 40-70 year old women at a rally and 14 year old kids in school.
I agree. We all want 40-70 year old women not still reacting to such a situation like 14 year old kids. That won't happen when we have principals and other adults acting like 14 year old kids.
Quote:Could you understand why a teacher who is a breast cancer survivor might have a problem with these slogans from kids in the classroom accompanied by immature gestures, even though she might appreciate them coming from a supportive adult crowd at a rally?
Context is important... and we are talking about 14 year old kids in an educational environment-- and the teachers (some of whom are cancer survivors themselves) who might not appreciate the tittering.
No doubt about it, EBrown, "might". I think that there are likely teachers who are of Black ancestry or Chinese or Japanese who would feel uncomfortable talking of the past.
Life presents us with many potential uncomfortable situations but education isn't something that should run from those; education isn't something that should react in the same old puritanical fashion to such important events.
Education should take those moments and times to educate, not have "principals" and other knee jerkers think it is their duty to stand up for, really, when you think about it, nothing at all.
@parados,
Quote:then don't attack me for pointing out your statement is asinine.
Huh? Where did I attack you?
