Stradee
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Nov, 2003 10:33 pm
Education is only the beginning, Cav. With legislation, advocacy groups, and strong opposition aimed at companies buying from questionable suppliers, we've made significant progress. However, much works yet to be done before we can place restrictions on existing factory farms, or close them permenently.

There are farms in operation today that capture water, using large holding tanks, recycle, then carry the clean water back to streams and rivers through piped systems.

Factory farms are out of enviornmental controls for most communities.
How that happened is anyone's guess (could be the 20 billion dollar a year beef industry), or the fact that a company could buy property, and add a feed lot before any sort of impact study by the community could be undertaken. Plus, no community wants a factory farm as a neighbor. Can't say I blame them.

McDonald's, Burger King, and some large grocery chains have refused buying from suppliers that debeak chickens, use forced molting, or keep animals in electrically wired cages, or feed animals growth hormones. Plus, they offer customers a vegan burger. Florida has banned the use of gestation crates (a huge victory against factory farms).

Consumers have the power.
0 Replies
 
cavfancier
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Nov, 2003 10:46 pm
Incidentally, the price of wild salmon was up about 30% this year, which indicates the supplies were low. This is why I am in favour of responsible aquaculture. Part of the problem, I think, is letting huge international fishing companies fish in our waters, in Canada, France and Japan come to mind. This loose protection of our waters and 'turn our backs' attitude is devestating the cod industry on the East Coast.
0 Replies
 
husker
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Nov, 2003 10:47 pm
bookmarked
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Nov, 2003 07:05 am
sTradee salmon farming is not gm. Its specifically listed 9at least on the east coast0 The pens dont have ANY blood or feces on the surface. The pens are open to the water flow. the area around salmon pens are usually the best sport fishing areas for other, non farmed species.
MAybe you have different set ups out west but here they have open pens with mesh sides set in bays with maybe 8 or 10 2 acre ponds per set. The water is monitored for clarity and in line gC testing for water quality. The feed is composewd of fish and grain meal, and the growers list their feeds because the consumers demand it. The only problem i see that has to be addressed is how dense should the stock be. they use tv cameras . ive heard that some outfit near sT andrews nB is experimenting with sunken pens in the open waters so only 5 or 6 bouys with lights and sondes keep ships away.

Im going to keep you locked to this point of my topic cause youre wandering afield.
However, the biggest study of endocrine disruptors began as a forensic study in the chesapeake to determine the stresses on wildlife and fishstock (lesions, deformities)
they keyed in on specific loading of a number of chemicals and still found that, what they expected , (they expected huuge loadings of pharma compounds and complex organics)that wasnt the case. instead, they found a huge loading of very simple compound that are classed as surfactants(soaps and detergent) It wasnt so much of a surprise except for the amounts. detergents shoot right through treatment plants and because they show up in vast loadings in a bay the size of the chesapeake, it is assumed they need to be addressed all over. same thing with pCBs, they rain down on us, and we dont even use them anymore.

so we agree that we should do both

try to make fish farming more eco friendly and more natural

Try to make wild stocks come back so that wild fishing can be sustainable

I like fish, but Ill be damn if Im only gonna eat telapia or catfish.

The next crisis is gonna be lobster. In maritime Canada and in the S Maine and n mass areas, the lobsters are starting to show "shell disease" This is felt to be a response to the compromiswed immune systems from endocrine disrupters in the Gulf of mauine

As far as the caretinoids for color, if the consumer demands it, the market can supply it. We buy salmon from a fish farm near sT andrews NB where theyve been doing an in-bay set of pens. the fish is a very light pink, just from the algae . These pens have been going for years in rotation and theyve never had any disease spot or ISA and their water quality shows HQ results. most of that fish doesnt make it out of the St johns market . Now the US has cleaned out its pens and is resetting smolts this winter in new deeper water higher velocity areas. Im anxious to see what will happen.
Rather than quietly not eating farmed salmon because of your convictions, why not let your fishmongers know that you want a certain kind of product and you dont want wild stocks pressured more. So you would be, in effect , telling your suppliers to re-invent their farming techniques
0 Replies
 
cavfancier
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Nov, 2003 07:51 am
Chilean sea bass is already in trouble as well, as it is being over-fished. A lot of consumers don't even realize that the bulk of this over-rated but popular restaurant staple is frozen at sea, not fresh.
0 Replies
 
Stradee
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Nov, 2003 02:39 pm
Farmerman. links you may find interesting regarding genetically altered seafood -

http://www.tao.ca/~ban/300MSfisheggs.htm

http://www.mercola.com/2003/feb/1/gm_fish.htm

The following link pics provided by Grace Factory Farm Project depicts feed lot pollution in varies areas.

http://www.factoryfarm.org/resources/photos/

farmerman, I don't buy fish or meat, however, I totally agree that people have a say in the products they purchase, and where the food is grown and processed. I also believe our eco system at a higher risk when companies devise plans that genetically alter food as a quick fix, instead of finding ways to rebalance the enviornment.

Everything you ever wanted to know about Endocrine Disruptors

http://dmoz.org/Science/Environment/Environmental_Health/Endocrine_Disruptors/
0 Replies
 
Stradee
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Nov, 2003 02:48 pm
cav, I agree, overfishing and loss of habitat (there's the eco system again) causing havoc with the enviornment endangering both plant and sealife.

http://usinfo.state.gov/journals/ites/0103/ijee/ijee0103.htm
0 Replies
 
patiodog
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Nov, 2003 03:12 pm
Odd. Most of the complaints about aquaculture I heard in Seattle -- where it's obviously a touchy issue -- had to do with excaped farm fish breeding with wild salmon and altering the wild stocks there -- which, if it has the effect some people (including a couple of sport fishermen I knew) seemed to think it did represents a far more singular threat to wild species than the introduction of chemicals to the water, which is already done by dozens of industries out there.
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Nov, 2003 03:44 pm
Book mark
0 Replies
 
Stradee
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Nov, 2003 04:17 pm
Patiodog, the following link talks about the Northwest Salmon Recovery Program and also provides links to other recovery areas.

http://www.nwfsc.noaa.gov/trt/
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Nov, 2003 06:44 pm
strADEE , im already an editor on dmoz, so thanks for the links on the endocrine disruptors.
however, If the first 2 links are imminent, i will be on the line to protest against GM salmon. As the articles said, it isnt done yet. it seems that Canada will be drawing GM salmon eggs for a small distribution to pens. I feel that , based upon , Mandelbrot expressions and the orders of chaos , no aberrant codon genes should be inserted into any marketed food until the consequences are well understood. We agree completely on that issue. cant tell the next sequential effect per successive generation. Usually they say, well these fish will be sterile. it only takes one getting out and attaining a deferred sexual maturity. However, laws in Maine right now prohibit any GM foods and livestock enhancement9including fish farming)


Pollution of salmon isnt a hog farm issue. If you dont know, I am a stock farmer. We run about 500 to 700 sheep (corriedale and southdown) We abhor confinement programs, but, having said that, Im not in it for my only income source. I dont know what Id do if i were in the business as a single income source sheep farmer 9or cattle for that matter)
Most states are wising up to nutrient management practices and runoff. Some states , like N Carolina and some southern states turn their heads and have no environmental rules worth spit.
In Pa we have very tough dEP and dept Ag rules. So locally grown meats .ilike mine, can only be sold as custom cuts and kosher products. If we were to use the cattle auctions for sales, we would go broke. In Pa a farm is averaging 200 acres. Out west , a cattle or sheep operation can be 20000 acres free range and much of the range is provided by the taxpayer.

So the comparison of swine and salmon is not valid. The salmon farming isnt a mature operational thing yet. weve only learned our mistakes in the last 5 years. salmopn farming will improve. Ill accept your vegetarian style if you dont impose your dietary choices on me by way of panicking all the customers

As cav or dog said, PCBs are in the total environment. we dont feed pCBs to farmed salmon, they get it like all fish and their levels are, in fact, somewhat less than sessile benthic feeders like cod, and less than natural salmon, who feed on live catches going up the food chain. Prey that sequesters PCBs from their food . wild salmon magnify PCBs in the fatty tissue like stripers in the Hudson River. The NY DEC did some experiments in the early 80s re depuration rates of PCBs from fish flesh. They found that stripers could actually purge pCBs by cage feeding for a period of time. not so low , however, that no health advisory was possibl;e. they still showed PCBs and their fatty tissue was the major site.

The salmon recovery links are a statement of a goal and a mission statement . They tell me that research into salmon farming should not be terminated. the eastern salmon fisheries are even in a worse shape. like many of the tribes in the west, the Micmacs and Passamaquoddies fish for wild salmon and dont really GAS to the governments directives. also, the tribes , when they break the law by fishing for wild salmon, are given a wrist slap and meanwhile an entire genus is disappearing.
0 Replies
 
Stradee
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Nov, 2003 10:08 pm
LOL Farmerman, cool! Very Happy

I agree, without the proper data, aquafarming seems risky.

Posted feed lot data because of enviornmental hazzards. The animals fed mass doses of antibiotics to counter disease and health issues caused by to many animals forced to live in confined spaces. Animal advocates protested factory farming, but not until the human immune system was affected did lawmakers begin enacting laws protecting the consumer. (we're still fighting for the welfare of factory farmed animals)

Farmerman, even though I've chosen a vegan diet, there's always been support for small family farmers in conversation as well as postings at Power Steer thread. Without you guys, animals as well as consumers would certainly not benefit.

My protest has always been against confined, crowded, feedlots. (CAFO's)

Today, more and more consumers purchase products from organic farms, and also small family farms. Hang in there! Your farm could be famous some day Very Happy
0 Replies
 
Stradee
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Nov, 2003 10:53 pm
Pertaining to Ocean Conservaton and fisheries, we're now fighting to keep conservation laws currently on the books

http://actionnetwork.org/campaign/title9/explanation
0 Replies
 
Stradee
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Nov, 2003 03:54 pm
Monterey Bay Aquarium Seafood Watch Program - A seafood-watch site for consumers ~

http://www.mbayaq.org/cr/seafoodwatch.asp
0 Replies
 
mikey
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Nov, 2003 06:08 pm
bookmarking,
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

Quiznos - Discussion by cjhsa
Should We Eat Our American Neighbours? - Question by mark noble
Favorite Italian Food? - Discussion by cjhsa
The Last Thing You Put In Your Mouth.... - Discussion by Dorothy Parker
Dessert suggestions, please? - Discussion by msolga
 
  1. Forums
  2. » FARMED SALMON
  3. » Page 2
Copyright © 2019 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.03 seconds on 10/18/2019 at 08:20:40