The Flip Side of an Armed Public

@OmSigDAVID,

dave,

i'm not disputing your story. yet.

I wanna ask a question.

how do you know the slug was 3 inches in front of your face?

(remember, i am an expert on car windows...)

2 Replies

@engineer,

You'll never get a satisfying answer out of David on this issue, because you are challenging one of the core pillars of his persona. He can't admit the validity of any point you make in this conversation without specifically invalidating his life ethos; that is to say, he relies upon firearms for his feelings of safety and security, and you'll no more snatch that from him without a fight then a baby's blanket.

Cycloptichorn

0 Replies

@Joe Nation,

Joe Nation wrote:

With all due respect, I have never believe Omsigdavid's story.
It doesn't make sense. If someone had already shot out a window
and then sees a gun, the response would be to squeeze off
enough lead to make the gun go away.

In this forum, we r free to mention life experiences; we do not have to convince anyone.
Your reasoning (?) is defective. The perps panicked when resistance was forthcoming
and thay saw that thay were in possibly severe, maybe mortal danger of returned gunfire.

Apparently, u believe that it is impossible or implausible for criminals to panic
and that no one can panic in the face of a gunfight.
Of course, we know that no one has ever panicked in a military situation, either; right ?
U are free to believe what u wish.

I am reminded of someone who posted a few days ago
that in his experience, bullies always backed down.
I agree that this if ofen the case; in any event, when it occurred,
I did what I coud to defend myself.

Joe Nation wrote:

Ask yourself, if you were writing a script and the action happened as David told it, (gunshot, window implodes, gets out gun .....prep drives off????) There is only one situation where that would make sense and that would be if the weapon David pulled out was a lot more lethal. ---He pulls a gun, you pull a mac-10 or in the classic "A knife? That's not a knife. THIS is a knife.----

Didn't happen.

It didn 't happen because I don 't have a submachinegun, and it is for 2 handed use, anyway.

Joe Nation wrote:

I like and believe the story about NOT pulling a weapon despite the presence of a meathook,
too bad the others listed in the above stories weren't given large doses of restraint along with their carry licenses.

Note that too much restraint can have suicidally lethal effect.

Joe Nation wrote:

It's interesting, in the scenario wherein he would be justified
in returning fire, he merely showed the weapon, yet he gave no
warning peek to the meat hook carrier.

It was slung over his shoulder (curved blade) and we were both
engaged in writing driver's licenses, etc.
(He probably felt like a fool with that thing.)

I did not "merely showed the weapon" as u characterize it.
The target fled before I was able to DO anything about it,
thereby ending the threat and relieving the need.
U MISINTERPRET that I was only making a display.
I was preparing to fight for my life.
Because my piece was very reflective silver color,
it was visible as it was being brought to bear,
even in low light conditions.

Co-incidentally, about maybe 25 years before,
I had been counselled to keep a silver colored gun for that very reason.

0 Replies

@Rockhead,

Rockhead wrote:

dave,

i'm not disputing your story. yet.

I wanna ask a question.

how do you know the slug was 3 inches in front of your face?

(remember, i am an expert on car windows...)

Estimated distance between front of my face and bullethole.

2 Replies

@OmSigDAVID,

What happened to the bullet?

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@Rockhead,

U are aware that if I succeed in convincing u, I don 't get a prize.

0 Replies

@OmSigDAVID,

a side window?

they shatter. (designed that way...)

sure you do. it's called respect.

1 Reply

@Cycloptichorn,

Cycloptichorn wrote:

What happened to the bullet?
Cycloptichorn

I dunno; I did not go to look for it.
I did not stop the car.
I surmize that the criminals wanted me to pull over in meek surrender.

David

2 Replies

@OmSigDAVID,

So, if the bullet came in your window, why didn't it end up buried in some other part of your car? Did you never find the bullet?

Your story sounds rather fishy. I'm sure you understand our skepticism - this is the internet, after all, and there's no way to verify your account whatsoever. Therefore it is difficult to place any credence in the suggestion that you were saved by your handgun on that date.

Cycloptichorn

0 Replies

@OmSigDAVID,

Wait a minute....you didn't go look for it?

OmSigDAVID wrote:

Quote:

When I needed my gun, I was glad to have it handy, when a criminal shot out
my driver's door window, 3 inches in front of my face.

The bullet, and a considerable amount of shattered glass, would have ended up IN your car. How lucky you escaped any facial lacerations. (Just like in the movies)

Are we now to believe that the bullet somehow RICK_O'SHAYED or MEBBE shattered upon impact with the glass???

Lucky Duck....

Joe('wack,'wack)Nation

1 Reply

@Rockhead,

Rockhead wrote:

a side window?

they shatter. (designed that way...)

Not at the beginning; it began as a bullethole and with the car's vibration
of movement, shattering increased and the glass fell away.

Quote:

sure you do. it's called respect.

No; not on a liberal website; its called taunting the rightist,
and having fun, regardless of WHAT u believe.

Anyway, there is no reason
for "respect" I merely became a victim of an unfortunate situation
and dealt with it as well as I coud; so what ??

Its not as if I had any choices in the matter.
I was merely confronted with circumstances.

On another occasion, I slipped n fell in a supermarket,
sustaining some personal injuries; shoud I get "respect" for that too ?

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

depends on how you handled it, doesn't it?...

Ima ask one more question, then quit entirely here.

what year and make was the car dave? (don't care about model or color...)

1 Reply

@Joe Nation,

Joe Nation wrote:

Wait a minute....you didn't go look for it?

Joke, right?
I was going to turn the car around n go out with a flashlite ?
For a souvenir ?

OmSigDAVID wrote:

Quote:

When I needed my gun, I was glad to have it handy, when a criminal shot out
my driver's door window, 3 inches in front of my face.

Joe Nation wrote:

The bullet, and a considerable amount of shattered glass, would have ended up IN your car.

U are of the opinion that the slug woud STOP inside the car, for some reason ?

Joe Nation wrote:

How lucky you escaped any facial lacerations. (Just like in the movies)

Are we now to believe that the bullet somehow RICK_O'SHAYED or MEBBE shattered upon impact with the glass???

Lucky Duck....

U were luckier; no one shot at u.

Lemme explain the dynamics of the shattering:
it began with a small bullethole and a lot of cracks.
As I drove on, the shattering, the cracks, enlarged,
eventually falling away entirely. There were 100s of small
fragments of glass on the floor. I was not injured.
The particulate glass did not seem sharp, as I cleaned it out.

2 Replies

@OmSigDAVID,

Presumably the bullet created a 'bullethole' by passing through your window. If it passed through, it had to end up somewhere in the car. Are you claiming that the bullet did not in fact pass through the window, but instead ricocheted off?

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@Rockhead,

Rockhead wrote:

depends on how you handled it, doesn't it?...

It does not.
I just did the only thing that I coud in the circumstances,
the same as if u get a flat tire u go for your spare.
Its not as if I had been a great marksman.

Rockhead wrote:

Ima ask one more question, then quit entirely here.

what year and make was the car dave? (don't care about model or color...)

That was my 1975 Camaro. Y ?

0 Replies

@Cycloptichorn,

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Presumably the bullet created a 'bullethole' by passing through your window. If it passed through, it had to end up somewhere in the car. Are you claiming that the bullet did not in fact pass through the window, but instead ricocheted off?

Cycloptichorn

I know that it did not stop in the car from the fact that I did not find it.
Hence, it either went out the other window (open for ventilation)
or as u said, it was deflected by the (curved) glass.

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

OmSigDAVID wrote:

1. U assume, without proving, that disengagement was possible and safe.

OK, you were there. Could you have disengaged? I would think that if you were both moving, stepping on the brakes would have quickly opened up a several hundred foot gap.

OmSigDAVID wrote:

2. U assume that it is POSSIBLE to call police. This occurred long before I considered getting a cellfone.

My assumption is that you would call police after disengaging like one driver did in one of the articles I linked to. I'm not suggesting you call while under fire.

OmSigDAVID wrote:

3. U assume, in conflict with the known evidence, that a gunfight had NOT already started.
I 'm here to tell u that it HAD, indeed.

You've never stated that you got a shot off. It seems to me that from the time your gun was high enough to be seen (chest level) to the time that you would have returned fire would have been much faster than the ability of the other driver to realize you were armed and to speed away unless they were already driving off or unless you took evasive action. Just sitting in my car picturing the scenario is seems like less than a half second from gun coming up to bullet leaving the car. No way the other car sees and reacts in that time.

OmSigDAVID wrote:

4. U encourage me to ASSUME, with no predicate evidence,
that the NEXT gunshots (however many thay may be)
from said criminals will not inflict grievous, permanent personal injury or fatal wounds upon myself.
(I don't think that 's good advice.)

I cannot begin to guess HOW u 'd "disengage", Engineer,
with the predatory car driving abreast.

I would advise someone in the same situation to step on the brakes. With a 20 mph delta velocity between two cars, the distance between them opens up at 30 ft/sec. In very little time, you would be far enough apart to either turn and run or arm yourself. Attempting to return fire on the run would be the last thing I would advise, especially if the criminals involved already have their weapon out and aimed at you although if there are policemen out there in the A2K community, I would defer to their advice.

OmSigDAVID wrote:

Be advised that rather than waiting to find out how accurate the next gunshots were going to be,
I was preparing to DEFEND myself, when I heard a scream and noticed an abrupt departure of the car
that had been theretofore driving abreast of me.
That I "displayed" my gun was INCIDENTAL to my defense.
I was not about to just let them blast me whenever thay felt like it, and HOPE for the best.

Are you saying your gun did not play a role in them driving off? Was the shot fired into your car an accident? I guess it is not germane. My point is that because you had a gun, your first thought was to draw it instead of trying to pull away which would have afforded you more options. One of those options would be to use your weapon in self defense, but drawing it immediately seems like the worst possible choice and one you would not have considered if you didn't have a gun directly at hand. If your gun was in the glove compartment, I think you'd have made a more safe decision.

OmSigDAVID wrote:

Lemme get this straight: according to your vu of things,
my life was not in danger when the criminals' slug hit 3 inches in front of my face,
nor thereafter, UNLESS I began to defend myself ??
Is that your position ??

No, my position is that your life was in danger when that shot hit your window, but instead of taking the best course of action to preserve your life, you took the worst one and that you did that directly because you had a gun near at hand.

OmSigDAVID wrote:

engineer wrote:
Having a gun seems to encourage people to put themselves in harm's
way by distorting our sense of personal safety. Of course, that
doesn't apply to everyone and there are people who can carry
responsibly, but as the articles I linked to show, there are plenty of people who can't.
It is a fact that people have been KILLED
while changing flat tires on the road.
Perhaps u believe that is a reason not to carry a spare tire in your trunk;
I don't see it that way.

Having a spare tire does not give you the power to destroy other people's tires if you get angry. A gun is both an offensive and a defensive device unlike a spare tire. I've presented plenty of links above showing that people who have no criminal intent will spontaneously resort to using guns offensively at a much higher rate than they will use them defensively. That is the point I am trying to make.

2 Replies

@OmSigDAVID,

OmSigDAVID wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:
Presumably the bullet created a 'bullethole' by passing through your window. If it passed through, it had to end up somewhere in the car. Are you claiming that the bullet did not in fact pass through the window, but instead ricocheted off?

Cycloptichorn

I know that it did not stop in the car from the fact that I did not find it.
Hence, it either went out the other window (open for ventilation)
or as u said, it was deflected by the (curved) glass.

Interesting that as the driver, you had your window closed but the other open for ventilation. This is the opposite of what most people would do in the car.

Cycloptichorn

3 Replies

@OmSigDAVID,

OmSigDAVID wrote:

U are of the opinion that the slug woud STOP inside the car, for some reason ?

they call it physics

1 Reply

@ehBeth,

ehBeth wrote:

OmSigDAVID wrote:
U are of the opinion that the slug woud STOP inside the car, for some reason ?

they call it physics

How does the physics of that situation work?
What is the specific reason that the slug is supposed to stop inside the car ?

0 Replies

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