18
   

Controvertial "Proof" of Multiverse!

 
 
Rickoshay75
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Dec, 2014 03:48 pm
@littlek,
littlek wrote:

Wowsa!

A massive river of galaxies is headed from well within the boundaries of the universe towards one edge of it. It is flowing faster (or in a more unified direction, at least) than the general expansion of the universe. The theory is that the flow is headed towards something which was pushed outside of the universe, perhaps at the time of the big bang.

Quote:
.... In 2008 scientists reported the discovery of hundreds of galaxy clusters streaming in the same direction at more than 2.2 million miles (3.6 million kilometers) an hour.

This mysterious motion can't be explained by current models for distribution of mass in the universe. So the researchers made the controversial suggestion that the clusters are being tugged on by the gravity of matter outside the known universe.

Now the same team has found that the dark flow extends even deeper into the universe than previously reported: out to at least 2.5 billion light-years from Earth.

After using two additional years' worth of data and tracking twice the number of galaxy clusters, "we clearly see the flow, we clearly see it pointing in the same direction," said study leader Alexander Kashlinsky, an astrophysicist at NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center in Maryland.

"It looks like a very coherent flow."

The find adds to the case that chunks of matter got pushed outside the known universe shortly after the big bang"which in turn hints that our universe is part of something larger: a multiverse....
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2010/03/100322-dark-flow-matter-outside-universe-multiverse/?source=link_fb03232010


And they came to that conclusion from they saw through a single dimension telescope - Amazing!!
0 Replies
 
HesDeltanCaptain
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Aug, 2015 07:36 am
@littlek,
Have this linked and have written about it as well. It's definitely a Mr. Spock raised eyebrow thing. Smile
0 Replies
 
brianjakub
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Apr, 2016 05:34 pm
@littlek,
We can't observe the space inside of atoms as well as the space that might be outside our universe that this river is flowing to. Could that mean the inside of each atom is a universe of its own, thus providing us with embedded multiverses?
astral
 
  0  
Reply Wed 6 Apr, 2016 05:51 pm
@littlek,
Multiverse is a mistake. Quantum physics need to realize, that behavior of electrons depends on the act of observation, which requires the CONCIOUSNESS. Universe is a fractal, which generate itself in real-time, using the endless process of information exchange...
0 Replies
 
astral
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Apr, 2016 05:55 pm
@brianjakub,
As Above, So Below - ancient civilisations knew, that Universe is a FRACTAL. Everything depends on the scale - for example time dilation. From the perspective of a human, insects move very fast - but from perspective of an insect we move very slow From the perspective of atom, 'our' time doesn't matter at all...
Universe is an assembly of fields within fields, within fields, within fields... into infinty
brianjakub
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Apr, 2016 10:37 pm
@astral,
How do you know this especially going to infinity? I didn't think infinities are possible in physics.
0 Replies
 
Goliathus
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Nov, 2016 05:28 pm
It can mean anything though
brianjakub
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Dec, 2017 08:32 am
@Goliathus,
It can mean only one thing, we just have to figure out what that one thing is.
0 Replies
 
kadenpradhan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Jan, 2018 02:20 am
@rosborne979,
@rosborne979,
I agree with you. Probably the author
0 Replies
 
Love2Love
 
  1  
Reply Fri 1 Jun, 2018 08:56 pm
How can a multiverse exist? It's all the universe, hence the name.
brianjakub
 
  1  
Reply Sun 3 Jun, 2018 05:42 pm
@Love2Love,
Any space that is contained with boundaries where the particles contained inside those boundaries cannot tell the particles on the other side of those boundaries exist is by definition a universe as stated in definition 2 in the following.

Quote:



Definition of universe
1 : the whole body of things and phenomena observed or postulated : cosmos: such as
a : a systematic whole held to arise by and persist through the direct intervention of divine power
b : the world of human experience
c (1) : the entire celestial cosmos (2) : milky way galaxy (3) : an aggregate of stars comparable to the Milky Way galaxy
2 : a distinct field or province of thought or reality that forms a closed system or self-inclusive and independent organization
3 : population 4
4 : a set that contains all elements relevant to a particular discussion or problem
5 : a great number or quantity
a large enough universe of stocks … to choose from —G. B. Clairmont


By that definition an atom could be a universe since we can only detect the boundary of the atom (electron cloud) and cannot observe the interior of the atom because inside that boundary is a separate universe. Some postulate that space can be broken down into smaller universes that are two particle (antiparticle-particle strings that are one dimensional universes) called string theory. The higgs mechanism is how the universe inside the atom interacts with the universe outside the atom if all of space is made up of these multiple unverses constructed of strings.

I would suggest that a higgs boson is made up of two of these strings and is a four particle universe containing two intertwined two particle universes. But, that would require a lot of order and, the initiation of such universal order is hard to explain by purely natural causes (even though it solves a lot of problems by creating while creating that initiation problem).

0 Replies
 
Jewels Vern
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Mar, 2019 09:20 am
It's not a theory. A theory is based on an observation. If you haven't observed something, it's fiction.

Proposing an alternate universe is the same as proposing creation: it is unscientific by definition.
tsarstepan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Mar, 2019 09:50 am
@Jewels Vern,
Jewels Vern wrote:

It's not a theory. A theory is based on an observation. If you haven't observed something, it's fiction.

Proposing an alternate universe is the same as proposing creation: it is unscientific by definition.

Wouldn't it be a hypothesis?
Quote:

hypothesis noun
hy·​poth·​e·​sis | \ hī-ˈpä-thə-səs
\
plural hypotheses\ hī-​ˈpä-​thə-​ˌsēz
\
1a : an assumption or concession made for the sake of argument

b : an interpretation of a practical situation or condition taken as the ground for action

2 : a tentative assumption made in order to draw out and test its logical or empirical consequences

3 : the antecedent clause of a conditional statement
0 Replies
 
Jewels Vern
 
  0  
Reply Fri 28 Jun, 2019 11:09 pm
"At it's most basic level, science is supposed to represent the investigation of the unexplained, not the explanation of the uninvestigated."
~ Hunt for the Skinwalker (2018)
0 Replies
 
bobsal u1553115
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Nov, 2021 09:25 am




I love ancient history.
0 Replies
 
The Anointed
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 29 Nov, 2021 05:42 pm
@JLNobody,
To say that the totality of existence has a beginning and end, is meaningless. The only things that have a beginning and an end, are things within the totality of all that exists, which is, and has been, in the constant state of flux/change from the everlasting into the everlasting, without beginning or end.

And this particular universe is but one of a genetic line of universal bodies that stretch back into the everlasting, each generation occupying it own position in Space-time.
0 Replies
 
The Anointed
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 29 Nov, 2021 08:45 pm
@littlek,
Quote:
A massive river of galaxies is headed from well within the boundaries of the universe towards one edge of it. It is flowing faster (or in a more unified direction, at least) than the general expansion of the universe. The theory is that the flow is headed towards something which was pushed outside of the universe, perhaps at the time of the big bang.


Our Milky Way galaxy is said to be anchored in space by a super Black hole, which has a mass of some three to four million suns, and if you think that’s a big black hole, consider this; “In December of 2019, astronomers announced the discovery of one of the biggest black holes ever measured in the nearby universe.

That black hole is at the center of an elliptical galaxy in galaxy cluster Abel 85, and has been calculated to be 40 billion times the mass of our sun, which is equivalent to two-thirds the mass of the 100-billion stars in the Milky Way and is roughly the size of our entire solar system.”

Our Milky Way and the nearby Andromeda Galaxy, which are two spiral galaxies are on a collision course, and when these two spiral galaxies collide, they can merge and form an elliptical galaxy, which elliptical galaxies can collide and merge again to form an even larger elliptical galaxy.

The central Black holes of those elliptical galaxies also merge and combine to make one massive Black Hole, and those Massive galaxies, which are called ‘core galaxies’ are believed to be the main attractive force at the center of galactic clusters, which clusters are being attracted to a super Duper gravitational anomaly within the Shapley Super Cluster, which is the largest concentration of galaxies in our nearby universe that forms a gravitational anomaly that is pulling itself together instead of expanding with the universe.

It is believed that pairs of spiral galaxies form elliptical galaxies, pairs of those elliptical galaxies form cored elliptical galaxies, and a pair of cored galaxies formed Holmberg 15A, and that this series of mergers also created the ultra-massive black hole in its center, a monster nearly as big as our solar system with the mass of around 40 billion suns.

When will this process end? Will there eventually end up being only one super galaxy orbiting an immeasurable monstrous Black Hole wherein the centre of which, will be crushed all our known universe into the singularity from which our universe began, where the volume of space is zero and its density is infinite? Are we looking at an eternal oscillating universe?

Around the Super Black Hole at the centre of our Milky Way Galaxy, orbits many other black holes, which were created from the collapse of Gigantic stars that had formed in the galaxy, or which were once at the centre of other lesser galactic bodies that have merged with ours. There are perhaps twenty small galaxies that orbit the Milky Way, like moths around a flame.

The larger Magellanic Cloud (Nebecula Major) and the smaller Magellanic Cloud (Nebecula Minor) are two galaxies that are orbiting our Milky Way galaxy which orbits the central Super Black Hole to which those Magellanic Clouds are being gathered and will one day merge with our galaxy.

The earlier explanations as to a mysterious stream of Gas, which appeared to stretch from them to our galaxy, was the result of gravitational interaction between the two Magellanic clouds, and so, was thought to be coming from them. But researchers from the Leibniz institute for Astrophysics in Germany, taking into account, the best understanding of the diffuse hot Gas that our Milky Way, [Its Corona], couldn’t get that stream of Gas to form, so they came to the conclusion that they simply don’t understand the Milky way’s corona very well. But another possible explanation put forward by them, is that, rather than originating from the Magellanic Clouds, that stream of Gas could be coming from a different Galaxy altogether, which is being devoured, as it plunges into our Milky Way.

Only recently in 2020, scientists witnessed two events ten days apart, of Black Holes devouring neutron stars.

The Super Black Hole at the centre of our being will continue to grow as it devours the other lesser black Holes, dying stars, and planets within this galaxy. And yet our galaxy is but one of billions of galaxies that are falling in toward the super gravitational anomaly that is called the ‘Great Attractor’.

And even that which is called the ‘GREAT ATTRACTOR’ is flowing toward the Shapley Supercluster? Is there something at the core of the ever-growing Shapley Supercluster that is pulling all the galaxies in our particular section of this boundless cosmos to itself? Or is it simply the gravitational attraction of the galaxies to each other that has caused the Shapley concentration to grow to the size it is today and continues to grow, as the other galactic clusters in our region are being gathered to it, while the more distant clusters appear to be accelerating away?

It is believed that the galaxies are gathered together by their own gravitational attraction and will one day become so condensed and concentrated that they too will begin to devour each other until only one remains.

Then the elements within that super massive body of unapproachable light, will become extremely excited, and will burn, and roll up as a scroll with a great hissing noise as it spirals into the centrally condensed system, from which nothing, absolutely nothing can escape, where that energised body will be torn to pieces molecule by molecule, atom by atom, sub-atomic particle by sub-atomic particle, and re-converted into the photons from which they were created, and in my opinion, accelerated along the dark worm hole, or Einstein Rosen bridge, to speeds far, far in excess of the speed of light, where that most infinitely dense, infinitely hot, infinitesimally small singularity trapped at the end of the worm hole, is spatially separated and the infinitely hot super lubricant liquid-plasma like Electromagnetic energy, it is spewed out of a WHITE HOLE (A tear in the membrane of space time) in the trillions and trillions of degrees, somewhere far beyond the visible horizon of the boundless cosmos, where, from the cooling quantum of that electromagnetic energy, that universe is resurrected, and the light from its new position in space-time, far beyond the visible cosmic horizon, would never be able to reach its old position in Space-Time.

As science is brought up in the religious section of this forum, I see no reason why religious statements cannot be put forward in the science section.

Enoch, from a previous age of man that was destroyed by water, is the only man recorded in the Scriptures to have been carried to the throne of the Most High in the creation, and was anointed as his successor, who was then escorted to the ends of time, where he witnessed the universe burn up and fall as massive columns of fire, beyond all measure in height and depth into the GREAT ABYSS, (Black Hole) which is described by Enoch, as the prison of all the stars and the host of heaven, (The entire universe) beyond which, there was nothing.

It was from the words of righteous Enoch and not the Hebrew or Christians bibles, from where Peter received the information as revealed in 2 Peter 3: 10; that the day of the lord will come like a thief. On that day the heavens will disappear with a shrill noise, and the heavenly bodies will burn up and be destroyed, and the earth and everything in it will vanish.

The Anointed
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 29 Nov, 2021 09:43 pm
@The Anointed,
Continued from previous post.

Russian physicist and mathematician Alexander Friedmann, in the early 1920s, became the first person to embrace the idea that the equations of Einstein’s general theory of relativity called for a universe in motion.

The Friedmann universe begins with a Big Bang and continues expanding for untold billions of years—that’s the stage we’re in now. But after a long enough period of time, the mutual gravitational attraction of all the matter slows the expansion to a stop. The universe then starts to fall in on itself, replaying the expansion in reverse. Eventually all the matter collapses back into a singularity, in what physicist John Wheeler likes to call the “Big Crunch.”

And just as we begin our walk to the grave from the day of our birth, from all appearances, the ‘GREAT UNIVERSAL GATHERING’ has already begun.

Our ancient ancestors expressed the belief that our scientists of today are just beginning to come to terms with, and that is, that following each “Big Bang” there comes the “Big Crunch,” when this universe is condensed once again, into the supposedly infinitely dense, infinitely hot, infinitesimally small singularity from which it originated, only to reappear at a later point in time.

According to the ancients, we live in an eternal oscillating universe that expands outward and contracts back to its beginning in space time, a living universal body, which is all that exists, and in which, all that is, exists. A universe that exists in the two states of seemingly visible matter and invisible energy.

“Universe after universe is like an interminable succession of wheels forever coming into view, forever rolling onwards, disappearing and reappearing; forever passing from being to non-being, and again from non-being to being. In short, the constant revolving of the wheel of life in one eternal cycle, according to fixed and immutable laws, is perhaps after all, the sum and substance of the philosophy of Buddhism. And this eternal wheel has so to speak, six spokes representing six forms of existence.” ---- Mon. Williams, Buddhism, pp. 229, 122.

Another universe may have preceded ours study finds. May 14th, 2006. Courtesy Penn State University and World Science staff.

Three physicists say they have done calculations suggesting that before the birth of our universe, which is expanding, there was an earlier universe that was shrinking. To arrive at their pre-existing universe finding, Ashtekar’s group used loop quantum gravity, a theory that seeks to reconcile General relativity with quantum physics.

These two seemingly fundamental theories are otherwise contradictory in some ways. Loop quantum gravity, which was pioneered at Ashtekar’s institute, proposes that spacetime has a discrete “atomic” structure, as opposed to being a continuous sheet, as Einstein, along with most us, assumed. In loop quantum gravity, space is thought of as woven from one-dimensional “threads.” The continuum picture remains mostly valid as an approximation. But near the Big Bang, this fabric is violently torn so that it’s discrete, or quantum, nature becomes important. One outcome of this is that gravity becomes repulsive instead of attractive, Ashetkar argued; the result is the 'BIG BOUNCE'.

Paul Steinhardt of Princeton University, a cosmologist who has explored some related concepts, wrote in an email that the new research “Supports, in a general way, the idea that the Big Bang need not be the beginning of space and time.” The universe “may have undergone one or more bangs in its past history,” he added. Steinhardt and colleagues have also proposed a bounce of sorts, but it’s different. It could turn out that the two scenarios are equivalent at some deep level, but that’s not known, he added. Steinhardt‘s scenario makes use of string theory, another attempt to reconcile General Relativity with quantum physics. Some versions of string theory portray our visible universe as a three -dimensional space embedded in an invisible space having more dimensions.

Our zone, called a braneworld [the word comes from its similarity to a sort of membrane] could periodically bounce into another parallel braneworld.
Such an event might look to us, stuck in a few dimensions as we are, as a Big Bang. “I don’t know if Ashetkar’s case translates into a bounce between braneworlds like we are describing,” Steinhardt wrote. But by his estimate, this cataclysm won’t take place for another roughly 300 billion years—so there is hopefully plenty of time to answer the question.

Just as the Big Bang theory has been evolving over the years and is continuing to evolve as new data becomes available, these Big Crunch theories that are just beginning to emerge are still in their infancy.

Because three-dimensional time as we know it, does not exist prior to the Big Bang: from the return of the universe to the supposedly infinitely hot, infinitely dense and infinitesimally small singularity of origin to the next Big Bang when three dimensional space and time would begin again, it would appear that no time had elapsed, thus [As I believe] the erroneous 'Big Bounce theory.'

According to the German theoretical physicist, Max Karl Ernst Ludwig Planck: One Planck time is the time it would take a photon travelling at the speed of light to cross a distance equal to one Planck length.

The Planck time, is the time it would take a photon travelling at the speed of light to cross a distance equal to the Planck length. This is the 'quantum of time', the smallest measurement of time that has any meaning, and is equal to 10-43 seconds. No smaller division of time has any meaning. Within the framework of the laws of physics as we understand them today, science can say only that the universe came into existence when it already had an age of 10-43 seconds.

A singularity is a region of space-time in which matter is crushed so closely together that the gravitational laws explained by general relativity break down. In a singularity, the volume of space is zero and its density is infinite. Scientists believe such a singularity exists at the core of a black hole, which occurs when a super-massive sun reaches the end of its life and implodes.

General relativity also demands such a singularity must exist at the beginning of an expanding universe, from which singularity our eternal oscillating and ever evolving universe is resurrected to continue on in that everlasting process.

If our generation of the universe originated from a Singularity, then the previous generation of the universe, must have ended as that singularity, and although 10-43 seconds is the smallest measurement of time that has any meaning to our scientific teams, and no smaller division of time has any meaning, this does not mean that ‘TIME, SPACE AND MOMENTUM’, do not continue beyond Planck’s ‘Quantum of time’.

The Planck length, is a ‘SPACE’ that is crossed by the ‘MOMENTUM’ of a photon travelling at the speed of light, in a Planck ‘TIME’. So, beyond Planck’s ‘Quantum of time’, the Big Crunch continues toward the Singularity in which, space, time and momentum ‘DO NOT EXIST’.

Science cannot determine if a Planck space can continue to be halved or how many times it could be halved, nor can they determine the TIME taken to cross each division of that Planck ‘SPACE’.

And all though the speed=’MOMENTUM,’ may remain the same, relative to each halved ‘SPACE’ the photon must cross. the momentum/speed would appear to double, as the ‘TIME’ taken to cross that diminishing space is halved also, until “BANG”, there is no more SPACE in which to move, and no more TIME, only the singularity of the origin of the next ‘BIG BANG” and expanding universe.

Such an event might look to Ashtekar’s group, as a 'BIG BOUNCE'.

The contracting universe hits the Planck ‘Quantum of time’, then after a time that no science can determine, the next generation of the universe emerges as the event we know as ‘THE BIG BANG’, which spews out of a WHITE HOLE, in the trillions upon trillions of degrees, or, according to scientific measurements (180 million trillion, trillion degrees Fahrenheit), the plasma liquid like electromagnetic energy from which the next generation of the universe would be created, which eternal energy, that can never be created, or ever destroyed, having neither beginning or end, came from the Pre-Big Bang scientifically dark unknown.



The Anointed
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 30 Nov, 2021 03:29 pm
@The Anointed,
Continued from previous post.

As said previously, “According to the ancients, we live in an eternal oscillating universe that expands outward and contracts back to its beginning in space time. A universe that exists in the two states of seemingly visible matter and invisible energy.”

“Universe after universe is like an interminable succession of wheels forever coming into view, forever rolling onwards, disappearing and reappearing; forever passing from being too non-being, and again from non-being to being. In short, the constant revolving of the wheel of life in one eternal cycle, according to fixed and immutable laws, is perhaps after all, the sum and substance of the philosophy of Buddhism. And this eternal wheel has so to speak, six spokes representing six forms of existence.” ---- Mon. Williams, Buddhism, pp. 229, 122.

The days and nights of Brahma are called Manvantara, or the cycle of manifestation, ‘The Great Day,’ which is a period of universal activity, that is preceded, and also followed by ‘Pralaya,’ a dark period, which to our finite minds would seem as an eternity, or but a moment in time.

‘Manvantara,’ is a creative day, a period of universal activity of light and life, as seen in the six days of creation in Genesis. ‘Pralaya,’ is the evening that proceeds the next creative day, and is seen as the period of rest for the “GREAT THOUGHT’.

Pioneering physicist Sir James Jeans wrote: “The stream of knowledge is heading toward a non-mechanical reality; the universe begins to look more like ‘A GREAT THOUGHT’ than like a great machine. Mind no longer appears to be an accidental intruder into the realm of matter, we ought rather hail it as the creator and governor of the realm of matter. (R. C. Henry, “The Mental Universe”; Nature 436:29, 2005)

The six periods of Creation and the seventh day of rest in which we now exist are referred to in the book of Genesis 2: 4; as the “GENERATIONS OF THE UNIVERSE.”

The English word “Generation,” is translated from the Hebrew “toledoth,” which is used in the Old Testament in every instance as ‘births,’ or ‘descendants,’ such as “These are the generations of Adam,” or “these are the generations of Abraham, and Genesis 2: 4; it is written concerning the six days of creation; “These are the generations of the Universe or the heavens and earth, etc.” And the ‘Great Day’ in which the seven generations of the universe are eternally repeated, is the eternal cosmic period, or the eighth eternal day in which those who attain to perfection, are allowed to enter, where they shall be surrounded by great light and they shall experience eternal peace, while those who do not attain to perfection are cast back into the refining fires of the seven physical cycles of endless rebirths that perpetually revolve within the eighth eternal cosmic cycle.

To the Hindu, Lord Krishnu, the ‘EIGHTH’ manifestation, or rather, the eighth descendant of Vishnu the savior, is the Supreme Personality of Godhead to have developed within Brahman.

Enoch the righteous, wrote that God created an ‘EIGHTH’ day also, so that it should be the first after his works, and it is a day eternal with neither hours, days, weeks, months or years, for all time is stuck together in one aeon, etc, etc, and all who enter into the generation of the Light beings, are able to visit all those worlds that still exist in Space-Time, but not in our time.

A series of worlds following one upon the other-- each world rising a step higher than the previous world, so that every later world brings to ripeness the seeds that were imbedded in the former, and itself then prepares the seed for the universe that will follow it.

Enoch, who, at the age of 365 (The number of days in a calendar year) was taken up and anointed as the heir and successor to the throne of our Father, (The Lord of Creatures) and the Most-High in the creation, and translated from a body of corruptible matter into a body of brilliant and blinding light in order that he should never die.

From the Book of Enoch the Prophet 108: 11-13; “And now I will summons the spirits of the good who belong to the generation of light, and I will transform those who were born in darkness, who, in the flesh were not recompensed with such honor as their faithfulness deserved. And I will bring forth in shining light those who have loved my Holy name, and I will seat each one on the throne of his honor, and they shall be resplendent for times without number.”

At what point in a contracting universe, do you suppose, the conditions for the sustainability of physical life forms becomes intolerable, and will life continue beyond that point, and if so, what form do you suppose it will take?
roger
 
  2  
Reply Tue 30 Nov, 2021 03:41 pm
@The Anointed,
Thank you. I never would have believd I had cause to ignore a thread by little k.
 

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