40
   

Congrats USA! Health care for all!! ??

 
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Mar, 2010 10:12 am
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:


It remains possible that it will be thrown out by the USSC.
We shall see what we shall see.

David


Don't bet on it. And even if the SC did go after certain parts of the legislation - say the individual mandate - it wouldn't invalidate the rest.

This actually may work out much, much worse for you guys if you don't watch out.

Cycloptichorn
Thomas
 
  2  
Reply Tue 23 Mar, 2010 05:01 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
You better hope they don't sack the individual mandate. Without it, the system wouldn't be financially sustainable, because people would stay out until they got sick.
parados
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Mar, 2010 05:17 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
I think I heard one of those AG's admit that there would be less of a constitutional argument against the public option.
0 Replies
 
Philis
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Mar, 2010 11:24 pm
@Thomas,
Who gets the pens, Will they be on ebay? How much would a citizen spend on a pen held by Obama.
sozobe
 
  2  
Reply Wed 24 Mar, 2010 09:35 am
@Philis,
Various people who had a lot to do with the passage got it. I know Pelosi did, it seemed like everyone on the stage behind him got one.

*****

I was going to start a new thread on this but there already several on the same basic topic, so I'm gonna put it here instead...

I disagree with Maureen Dowd's conclusion in her column today.

Dowd wrote:
The Chicago pol in the Oval has had to learn one of the great American truths: You’ve got to slap the bully in the face.


http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/24/opinion/24dowd.html

I think that this whole thing was constructed quite deliberately.

First came the non-Obama plan to draw out and clarify objections. Then a whole lot (!) of attempts at bi-partisanship to fulfill campaign promises (indeed, one of the main elements of the campaign) and to genuinely see if that got anywhere. Then when it became abundantly clear -- to everyone -- that the Republicans would have none of this bipartisan crap and were just going to throw up roadblocks and "kill the bill," then step in and with a show of power and political savvy, make it happen anyway.

That bipartisan interval had to happen, and had to last long enough to make it clear that it wasn't an empty gesture.
auroreII
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Mar, 2010 09:47 am
Congrats USA! Health care for all!! ??
We're only getting half of the provisions, the rest aren't set to start until four years from now.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Mar, 2010 10:07 am
@sozobe,
Oh, so the failing pens were deliberate? Reminds me of all those catholic churches storing a bone of some apostle or other, sugesting that the average apostle's body weight was multiple tons in bones alone. The 20 pens Obama needed to sign that bill are remarkably similar holy relics
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Mar, 2010 10:22 am
@Thomas,
Thomas wrote:

You better hope they don't sack the individual mandate. Without it, the system wouldn't be financially sustainable, because people would stay out until they got sick.


That just forces us to create a new way to address the problem, is all - such as expanding medicare for everyone.

Besides - that would then be the health insurance industry's problem, not the government's problem. If the insurance agencies go out of business, it only hastens my preferred situation.

Cycloptichorn
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Mar, 2010 10:30 am
@sozobe,
sozobe wrote:
Various people who had a lot to do with the passage got it. I know Pelosi did


Ms. Pelosi certainly deserved it for cranking that thing through. I agree with those that think it would have been a big old doorknob without her.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Mar, 2010 10:33 am
@ehBeth,
ehBeth wrote:

sozobe wrote:
Various people who had a lot to do with the passage got it. I know Pelosi did


Ms. Pelosi certainly deserved it for cranking that thing through. I agree with those that think it would have been a big old doorknob without her.


Indubitably. She is now officially the most powerful woman in American political history. She is the most effective Speaker of the House in my lifetime.

I also give huge credit to blogger Steve Benen of the Washington Monthly. In January after Brown got elected, his strategy memo - entitled 'pass the damn bill - and fix it in reconciliation' - was very influential in getting the House back on track to do what had to be done.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Mar, 2010 11:57 am
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:

Thomas wrote:

You better hope they don't sack the individual mandate. Without it, the system wouldn't


That just forces us to create a new way to address the problem, is all - such as expanding medicare for everyone.

... And mandating that everyone pays into the Medicare-for-all system. Sure, that would work. My only point is that without a mandate, holdouts will break the system's bank. Even a public system's bank.
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Mar, 2010 12:01 pm
Does forcing someone to get health insurance basically force them to get a job (to either get insurance through their employer or pay for insurance in the private system)?

Is it legal to force someone to work?
MontereyJack
 
  2  
Reply Wed 24 Mar, 2010 12:13 pm
no, subsidies for people who can't afford it. given the state of the economy Bush left us, a lot of people can't find jobs.
maporsche
 
  2  
Reply Wed 24 Mar, 2010 12:14 pm
@MontereyJack,
ok...do they have to apply or sign up or is it just implied.

For example, a homeless person, no income, no address, etc. How would this work for them?
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Wed 24 Mar, 2010 12:36 pm
@maporsche,
maporsche wrote:

ok...do they have to apply or sign up or is it just implied.

For example, a homeless person, no income, no address, etc. How would this work for them?


My guess is that people like this aren't paying taxes to begin with - no taxes, no implementation of any penalty for not carrying insurance.

Cycloptichorn
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Mar, 2010 12:40 pm
@maporsche,
No, you're not forced to work, and no, forcing someone to work wouldn't be legal. If you don't get health insurance through your employer, you buy it through something called a health insurance exchange. To buy that insurance, the federal government may give you a subsidy, depending on your income. If you don't have an income, your entire premium would be paid out of the federal subsidy.
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Mar, 2010 12:46 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Well sure...but will they be covered? And how?
Irishk
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Mar, 2010 12:56 pm
@maporsche,
I think it's covered in the bill...by providing adequate funds to ...

http://homelessness.samhsa.gov/About.aspx
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Mar, 2010 12:59 pm
@Irishk,
That's good then. It'd be too bad of homeless people weren't covered because they didn't have an address or something.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Mar, 2010 01:41 pm
@Thomas,
Oh that's what you meant about his good humor! OK that would've been way funnier. ("Maybe this pen will work... dammit. How about this one? Dammit.")

Yeah it's intentional so there are multiple souvenirs instead of the one.

That's what the "had to practice this" thing I lipread (dunno if it was audible) was about too, I presume (how to sign one's name with 20 pens).
0 Replies
 
 

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