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Random thoughts from the moose cave.

 
 
Butrflynet
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Jun, 2010 03:57 pm
Looks like we're going to have us some good t'mater growing weather next week here in Albuquerque. I can not wait for the plants to start producing tomatoes. Yesterday, the tasteless ones I bought in the grocery store were $3 a pound!

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_z2t3-2ANqrg/TAl1ldtr9aI/AAAAAAAABYQ/Zob8QzFcMNU/s800/ABQweather.jpg
Rockhead
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Jun, 2010 06:31 pm
@Butrflynet,
i got cabbage worms.

and my natural mosquito spray is flippin worthless.

gonna buy some off.

and the mower threw a belt as I was de-seated by a big tree limb.

came home and took a cold shower.

making dirty rice and watching some baseball. (we are 7 for 9 so far...)
Butrflynet
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Jun, 2010 07:23 pm
@Rockhead,
I'm having the same problem with my brussels sprouts and eggplants.

What I did today was make a blend of cayenne pepper flakes, a few drops of olive oil, a few drops of mild dish soap and a lot of water. Blended it up, put it in a spray bottle and sprayed the stuff all over the foliage on top and bottom of the leaves and stems.

Then I sat back and watched the garden for awhile and the same 3 white moths came back. This time they didn't land on the plants, they quickly moved away. They tried coming back 2 more times and went away again.

That will be enough to repel them for a few days. Tomorrow I'm going to go to Home Depot and see if I can find some Neem oil. I checked the underside of the leaves and they are covered in little white specks which will probably hatch into cabbage worms in a few days.


When I went back in the house, the dogs wouldn't come near me until I changed clothes and washed off the smell from my arms and legs. I'm thinking of spraying the stuff in the areas of the garden where they love to dig...and maybe on their favorite pee spot on the carpet.
Rockhead
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Jun, 2010 07:26 pm
@Butrflynet,
got lotsa butterflies. some white.

no eggs that I could readily see, but i'm notoriously not well sighted anymore...

only one plant really severely munched on. (the one i found the worms on.)

i don't seem to have anything else growing that they want to eat.

lotsa blooms this week, and the cukes and squash are popping.
0 Replies
 
dadpad
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Jun, 2010 07:37 pm
Quote:
i got little holes all over the leaves.

cabbage moths.
juvenile form of white butterflies.

User dipel* HG bio insecticide (baccillus thuringensis). Dipel is a yates product. there may be others on the market.

Quote:

Dipel only affects caterpillars in the moth and butterfly family. It won’t harm any other organism and has long been a favourite of organic gardeners and commercial growers. And better still, when applied to food crops Dipel has no withholding period: vegies, fruit and salad ingredients can be washed and eaten immediately after spraying.


similar product spinosad (marketed as "Success").

http://extoxnet.orst.edu/pips/bacillus.htm
Rockhead
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Jun, 2010 07:42 pm
@dadpad,
yeah.

up on our side of the planet we (me) are trying not to use chemistry unless we gotta...

natural alternatives, roo-by?
0 Replies
 
dadpad
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Jun, 2010 07:49 pm
(baccillus thuringensis) is a naturaly occoring soil borne bacteria.
I've updated my post above
Rockhead
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Jun, 2010 07:51 pm
@dadpad,
i dunno.

"(baccillus thuringensis)" sounds like my privates should itch...
dadpad
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Jun, 2010 07:52 pm
I think you can make your own. but you need to start with the commercial culture.
Something like...
add one sachet of dipel to a pint of milk warm the milg to blood temperature for a few hours. This encorages the culture to multiply. spray the milk on to your vegetables.
save a little milk to make the next batch with.
0 Replies
 
dadpad
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Jun, 2010 07:53 pm
@Rockhead,
wiki says it is gram positive... so give her a dose to test it out
0 Replies
 
dadpad
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Jun, 2010 07:56 pm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacillus_thuringiensis
Health and safety

Overall, Bt-modified crops appear to be safe for farmers and consumers.[18] The proteins produced by Bt have been used in sprays for agricultural weed control in France since 1938 and the USA since 1958 with seemingly no ill effects on the environment or human health.[19]

Bt toxins are considered environmentally friendly by many farmers[who?] and may be a potential alternative to broad spectrum insecticides. The toxicity of each Bt type is limited to one or two insect orders, and is nontoxic to vertebrates and many beneficial arthropods. The reason is that Bt works by binding to the appropriate receptor on the surface of midgut epithelial cells. Any organism that lacks the appropriate receptors in its gut cannot be affected by Bt.[20][21]

There is clear evidence from laboratory settings that Bt toxins can affect non-target organisms. Usually, but not always, affected organisms are closely related to intended targets [22]. Typically, exposure occurs through the consumption of plant parts such as pollen or plant debris, or through Bt ingested by their predatory food choices. Nevertheless, due to significant data gaps, the real-world consequences of Bt transgenics remains unclear.

Not all scientific reports on Bt safety have been positive. A 2007 study funded by the European arm of Greenpeace, suggested the possibility of a slight but statistically meaningful risk of liver damage in rats.[23] While small statistically significant changes may have been observed, statistical differences are both probable and predictable in animal studies of this kind,(known as Type I errors), that is, the probability of finding a false-positive due to chance alone. In this case, the number of positive results was within the statistically predicted range for Type I errors.

The observed changes have been found to be of no biological significance by the European Food Safety Authority.[24] A 2008 Austrian study investigating the usefulness of a long-term reproduction mouse model for GM crop safety reported that Bt-treated corn consumption in mice appeared to be correlated with reduced fertility via an unknown biochemical mechanism.[25]
Rockhead
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Jun, 2010 08:10 pm
@dadpad,
I feel better that they tested it on the French first.

that only seems logical...
Butrflynet
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Jun, 2010 10:21 pm
@Rockhead,
I'm planning on going to a local food festival here on Sunday. Besides the farmer's market booths, they're supposed to have free workshops on many gardening topics and have master gardeners in a booth available to answer questions.

I'll ask 'em about an organic solution to cabbage worms and post what I learn.
0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Jun, 2010 12:15 am
Table salt.

Cabbage moths hate it. The plants wont absorb it.
Rockhead
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Jun, 2010 11:21 am
@JPB,
did that firstly. (you were my unnamed source earlier)

just fishing for a B plan in case.

my A plans have a rather poor history...
0 Replies
 
tsarstepan
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Jun, 2010 11:36 am
@JPB,
JPB wrote:

Table salt.

Cabbage moths hate it. The plants wont absorb it.

Nah. Tabasco sauce.

Sponateous combustion!!
Rockhead
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Jun, 2010 11:39 am
@tsarstepan,
I wanna eat it when it's done...

holy firey broccoli, batman
0 Replies
 
Butrflynet
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Jun, 2010 03:49 pm
Rocky, I have a couple car questions for ya.

A few weeks ago, I took my car in for a 4-wheel alignment, oil change and a/c servicing. My car is a '93 Mercury Cougar and has never had the a/c serviced so I figured it was time for it, especially since it wasn't cooling as efficiently as it used to in California. I just had all the front end stuff replaced and the neighborhood mechanic recommended the wheel alignment.

The service manager told me that my car still uses the old pre-1993 refrigerant that was banned by the EPA. He said that there are still some cans of the old refrigerant available, but they cost as much as $150 a can now because they are so limited in supply. He says that the a/c system can be converted over to the newer versions of refrigerant but it would cost about $500 to do so. I said I didn't want to spend the $150 for the whole can of old refrigerant and asked if he could just top off the system and charge me for what was used. He did so and charged me $50. The a/c worked great for about three weeks (with the car being driven maybe 4 times during that time). Yesterday I noticed it isn't cooling as well now. I am now wondering if there is a coolant leak.

Today, when I went out to start the car to do an errand, as soon as the engine kicked over I felt and heard this WHOOSH! from under the car. It was strong enough that it jolted the car a bit. I had the air conditioning fan on and turned it off so I could listen to the engine better, but heard nothing wrong. I then backed down the driveway to see if there was anything leaking onto the driveway and saw nothing. I then popped the hood to see if I could see anything wrong. Didn't see any loose hoses, belts or anything else abnormal to my novice eyes so I took off on the errand with the air conditioning on and everything seemed fine except that the air conditioning wasn't working as well as it did a couple weeks ago.

When I came out of the store and started the car, (I had the fan on at the time) there was a sound like a buzz saw. When I turned the air conditioning fan off to hear better, the sound went away. I popped the hood again and still didn't see anything out of the ordinary. I drove home with the windows down and air conditioning off and noticed a smell I can only relate to the smell of some nail polishes, sort of a acetone, chemically smell, not very strong but enough to notice. Is that the smell of the refrigerant?

Any ideas as to what might be wrong? Also, do you recommend I go to the expense of converting the refrigerant or keep paying for the high-priced old stuff until the a/c needs repair?

FYI, the 1993 car has less than 49,000 miles on it and is in very good condition otherwise.

I'm reading about a/c repair here and nothing sounds like what I encountered today:

http://www.wikihow.com/Fix-Your-Car%27s-Air-Conditioner
Butrflynet
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Jun, 2010 04:25 pm
@dadpad,
Back to the cabbage worms and bacillus thuringiensis, I went to Home Depot to see if they carried anything with the BT as the active ingredient and they did not. So, I'll definitely look for some tomorrow at that food festival I mentioned earlier.

Meanwhile, here's some more info about it:

http://www.ext.colostate.edu/pubs/insect/05556.html

* Bacillus thuringiensis (Bt) is a naturally occurring bacterial disease of insects. These bacteria are the active ingredient in some insecticides.
* Bt insecticides are most commonly used against some leaf- and needle-feeding caterpillars. Recently, strains have been produced that affect certain fly larvae, such as mosquitoes, and larvae of leaf beetles.
* Bt is considered safe to people and nontarget species, such as wildlife. Some formulations can be used on essentially all food Crops.

Bacillus thuringiensis (Bt) is an insecticide with unusual properties that make it useful for pest control in certain situations. Bt is a naturally occurring bacterium common in soils throughout the world. Several strains can infect and kill insects. Because of this property, Bt has been developed for insect control. At present, Bt is the only "microbial insecticide" in widespread use.

The insecticidal activity of Bt was first discovered in 1911. However, it was not commercially available until the 1950s. In recent years, there has been tremendous renewed interest in Bt. Several new products have been developed, largely because of the safety associated with Bt-based insecticides.
Properties

Unlike typical nerve-poison insecticides, Bt acts by producing proteins (delta-endotoxin, the "toxic crystal") that reacts with the cells of the gut lining of susceptible insects. These Bt proteins paralyze the digestive system, and the infected insect stops feeding within hours. Bt-affected insects generally die from starvation, which can take several days.

Occasionally, the bacteria enter the insect's blood and reproduce within the insect. However, in most insects it is the reaction of the protein crystal that is lethal to the insect. Even dead bacteria containing the proteins are effective insecticides.

The most commonly used strain of Bt (kurstaki strain) will kill only leaf- and needle-feeding caterpillars. In the past decade, Bt strains have been developed that control certain types of fly larvae (israelensis strain, or Bti). These are widely used against larvae of mosquitoes, black flies and fungus gnats.

More recently, strains have been developed with activity against some leaf beetles, such as the Colorado potato beetle and elm leaf beetle (san diego strain, tenebrionis strain). Among the various Bt strains, insecticidal activity is specific. That is, Bt strains developed for mosquito larvae do not affect caterpillars. Development of Bt products is an active area and many manufacturers produce a variety of products. Effectiveness of the various formulations may differ.
Disadvantages

Bt is susceptible to degradation by sunlight. Most formulations persist on foliage less than a week following application. Some of the newer strains developed for leaf beetle control become ineffective in about 24 hours.

Manufacturers are experimenting with several techniques to increase its persistence. One involves inserting Bt toxic crystal genes into other species of bacteria that can better survive on leaf surfaces (e.g., the M-Trak formulation of san diego strain).

The highly specific activity of Bt insecticides might limit their use on Crops where problems with several pests occur, including nonsusceptible insects (aphids, grasshoppers, etc.). As strictly a stomach poison insecticide, Bt must be eaten to be effective, and application coverage must be thorough. This further limits its usefulness against pests that are susceptible to Bt but rarely have an opportunity to eat it in field use, such as codling moth or corn earworm that tunnel into plants. Additives (sticking or wetting agents) often are useful in a Bt application to improve performance, allowing it to cover and resist washing.

Since Bt does not kill rapidly, users may incorrectly assume that it is ineffective a day or two after treatment. This, however, is merely a perceptual problem, because Bt-affected insects eat little or nothing before they die.

Bt-based products tend to have a shorter shelf life than other insecticides. Manufacturers generally indicate reduced effectiveness after two to three years of storage. Liquid formulations are more perishable than dry formulations. Shelf life is greatest when storage conditions are cool, dry and out of direct sunlight.
Advantages

The specific activity of Bt generally is considered highly beneficial. Unlike most insecticides, Bt insecticides do not have a broad spectrum of activity, so they do not kill beneficial insects. This includes the natural enemies of insects (predators and parasites), as well as beneficial pollinators, such as honeybees. Therefore, Bt integrates well with other natural controls. For example, in Colorado, Bt to control corn borers in field corn has been stimulated by its ability to often avoid later spider mite problems. Mite outbreaks commonly result following destruction of their natural enemies by less selective treatments.

Perhaps the major advantage is that Bt is essentially nontoxic to people, pets and wildlife. This high margin of safety recommends its use on food Crops or in other sensitive sites where pesticide use can cause adverse effects.
Application

The greatest use of Bt involves the kurstaki strain used as a spray to control caterpillars on vegetable Crops. In addition, Bt is used in agriculture as a liquid applied through overhead irrigation systems or in a granular form for control of European corn borer. The treatments funnel down the corn whorl to where the feeding larvae occur.

Many formulations (but not all) are exempt from pesticide tolerance restrictions and may be used up to harvest on a wide variety of Crops. This also makes Bt useful in applications where pesticide drift onto Gardens is likely to occur, such as treating trees and shrubs. The exceptional safety of Bt products also makes them useful where exposure to pesticides is likely during mixing and application.

To control mosquito larvae, formulations containing the israelensis strain are placed into the standing water of mosquito breeding sites. For these applications, Bt usually is formulated as granules or solid, slow-release rings or brickettes to increase persistence. Rates of use are determined by the size of the water body. Make applications shortly after insect eggs are expected to hatch, such as after flooding due to rain or irrigation. Bt persistence in water is longer than on sun-exposed leaf surfaces, but reapply if favorable mosquito breeding conditions last for several weeks. Although the israelensis strain is quite specific in its activity, some types of nonbiting midges, which serve as food for fish and wildlife, also are susceptible and may be affected. For information on mosquito control, see fact sheet 5.526, Mosquito Management.

Use of Bt (israelensis) for control of fungus gnat larvae involves drenching the soil. Bt applied for control of elm leaf beetle or Colorado potato beetle (san diego/tenebrionis strain) is sprayed onto leaves in a manner similar to the formulations used for caterpillars. Bt does not control shore flies, another common fly found in greenhouses.
Insects Controlled by Bt

Kurstaki strain (Biobit, Dipel, MVP, Steward, Thuricide, etc.):

* Vegetable insects

o Cabbage worm (cabbage looper, imported cabbageworm, diamondback moth, etc.).
o Tomato and tobacco hornworm.

* Field and forage crop insects

o European corn borer (granular formulations have given good control of first generation corn borers).
o Alfalfa caterpillar, alfalfa webworm.

* Fruit crop insects

o Leafroller.
o Achemon sphinx.

* Tree and shrub insects

o Tent caterpillar.
o Fall webworm.
o Leafroller.
o Red-humped caterpillar.
o Spiny elm caterpillar.
o Western spruce budworm.
o Pine budworm.
o Pine butterfly.

Israelensis strains (Vectobac, Mosquito Dunks, Gnatrol, Bactimos, etc.)

* Mosquito.
* Black fly.
* Fungus gnat.

San diego/tenebrionis strains (Trident, M-One, M-Trak, Foil, Novodor, etc.)

* Colorado potato beetle.
* Elm leaf beetle.
* Cottonwood leaf beetle.

Butrflynet
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Jun, 2010 04:29 pm
@Butrflynet,
Here's a list of B/T products from Amazon.com if you want to order it off the internet.

I'll be doing that if I don't find anything useful at the food festival tomorrow:

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=Bacillus+thuringiensis&x=17&y=19
0 Replies
 
 

 
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