10
   

Accept it: Terrorists Will Strike Again.

 
 
Reply Thu 21 Jan, 2010 02:30 am
I found this opinion piece to be very thought provoking. Much of it articulated some of the thoughts I've had in the last decade. I thought I'd share it here with the A2K community and get some feedback.

L.A. Times wrote:
Terrorists will strike America again
Americans should understand that preventing every attack is simply an unattainable goal.


By Gregory F. Treverton
January 19, 2010

The Obama administration's mea culpa over the failure to prevent the attempted bombing of a U.S. airliner bound for Detroit on Christmas Day is understandable but misses the point. Yes, the United States can do better at catching would-be attackers; that will always be the case. But the truth is that there is no absolute security -- short of conceding victory to the terrorists by making it impossible for foreigners to visit the U.S., hellish for Americans to fly and difficult for all to live normal lives.

America's tolerance for terrorism cannot be zero. Although we obviously aim to do as much as possible, preventing every attack is an unattainable goal. The country needs to steel itself for the near-certainty that there will at some point be another major strike on U.S. territory.

Even if the U.S. curtailed civil liberties to a degree most citizens would find intolerable, sooner or later some suicidal terrorist would find a way to manage a successful attack. The greatest threat may come from lone wolves with scanty records, as is apparently the case with the accused Ft. Hood shooter, or from someone who acts alone even if trained and equipped by one of Al Qaeda's offshoots, as the would-be Detroit bomber allegedly did.

The Christmas Day episode highlights three critical points.

First is how much progress U.S. intelligence has made. The 9/11 attacks were blamed on a failure to "connect the dots." But foiling that plot would have required not just creative leaps of foresight by intelligence analysts, but also the political will to take draconian actions to prevent a large-scale attack organized from abroad on U.S. soil (something that hadn't happened since Pearl Harbor and was therefore almost unthinkable).

By contrast, Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab and his alleged Yemeni helpers were on the U.S. radar screen. Simply singling him out for a body search might have done the job. The intelligence community certainly failed to connect the dots, but at least this time it had the dots.

Second, the Christmas Day plot demonstrates that much of what passes for security is a waste of time and money. It often seems designed more to bother people than to prevent terrorism. The mass screening of departing passengers in Amsterdam was, almost by definition, too little to catch the "underwear bomber" and probably too much for his innocent fellow passengers.

Finding the right balance is terribly difficult, but what's needed is less mass screening of all those proverbial grandmothers. Racial and ethnic profiling is not only provocative, it is also ineffective, because it produces far too many "false positives" -- people subjected to secondary screening without cause. Rather, what we need is more screening and profiling based on intelligence to provide grounds for suspicion (which should have included the would-be Detroit bomber) or on suspicious behavior (like having no luggage or paying cash for the ticket).

Third, the public furor over the foiled plot shows that more perspective on terrorism is essential. Terrorism frightens Americans because it seems so random. But it does not kill many. In the five years after 2001, the number of Americans killed per year in terrorist attacks worldwide was never more than 100, and the toll some years was barely in double figures. Compare that with an average of 63 by tornadoes, 692 in bicycle accidents and 41,616 in motor-vehicle-related accidents.

Calling another attack "intolerable" is wishful thinking, not making policy. Some honest talk would be useful, so that when the next major attack comes -- as it surely will -- we can respond rationally and not just emotionally.

Soon after 9/11, I was seated at dinner next to former Defense Secretary Harold Brown. I asked him how much of a threat to the U.S. the attacks represented. His answer surprised me at the time, but he was right: On a scale of 1 to 10, the Cuban missile crisis of 1962 was an 8, he said; 9/11 was a 3. Those who lost their lives and their loved ones suffered mightily, and, as with any disaster, the psychological effect was magnified by the number of people who were killed at the same time. But for the nation, it was a blow, not a mortal threat.

When it comes to weathering terror attacks, the reaction of Israelis is instructive. After every bombing, they clean up as fast as possible. Thus, life can go on and the terrorists won't be given a victory. By contrast, Americans let fear of terrorism stop life. So the terrorists win.

America's security and intelligence apparatus can always do better. But it will never be able to stop every terrorist plot -- a grim reality Americans need to grasp.

Gregory F. Treverton, a former vice chairman of the National Intelligence Council, directs the Rand Corp.'s Center for Global Risk and Security and is the author of "Intelligence for an Age of Terror."


Source: http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-treverton19-2010jan19,0,1320040.story

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Type: Discussion • Score: 10 • Views: 8,539 • Replies: 119

 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Jan, 2010 02:39 am
I don't want to get into cheap responses, Diest ... but my response to this is: Accept it: the US Will Strike Again.

That's how many alienated countries/cultures would see the situation.

Something to do with cause & effect & ongoing hostilities.

Maybe the US has some part to play in limiting the farce of ongoing "retaliations"?
Diest TKO
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Jan, 2010 02:55 am
@msolga,
I think Treverton kind of hinted at that by suggesting that less money go into the Pentagon and more into things like energy.

I'm reminded of something I used to tell others when we inevitably never found WMDs in Iraq. I said that a weapon of mass destruction isn't a bomb hidden in a bunker, it's a bomb that falls out of our plane. The point being of course that the threat of a bomb going off pales to that of a bomb actually going off. Those were (still are) frustrating days for me.

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msolga
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Jan, 2010 03:14 am
@Diest TKO,
Quote:
I'm reminded of something I used to tell others when we inevitably never found WMDs in Iraq. I said that a weapon of mass destruction isn't a bomb hidden in a bunker, it's a bomb that falls out of our plane


Well (& I don't need to tell you, I'm sure) most of the planet didn't ever believe that weapons of mass destruction was the reason for the US invading Iraq. The Iraq invasion was a major war crime, in the eyes of many, including myself.

But that was just one example. But you can't be at all surprised, surely, that extreme folk on the other side of the ideological debate, might feel a desire to retaliate to this & other US "interferences" in other countries, in the interests of the US?

Early in his presidency Obama made quite a show of his intention to repair the US's seriously damaged relations with Islamic nations. It gave many of us great hope that the insane tit for tat retaliations might actually soon come to an end. Whatever happened to that noble goal? Why on earth is this craziness still going on in 2010?

msolga
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Jan, 2010 03:30 am
@msolga,
Sorry, Diest. I don't expect you to have the answers to my questions. I fully understand your concerns about internal US safety. But I also understand why crazy extremists feel the desire to undermine US security in this way. It shouldn't surprise anyone that they'd feel this way. I just feel extremely frustrated that we appear to be living through yet more Bush politics in 2010, that's all.
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Jan, 2010 05:20 am
Well, here is something the US won't do - deliberately aim a strike at civilians as the primary, intended target, as the terrorists did in 9/11 or in any of the other plane centered terrorist plots. What an absolute crock to compare our attack on an army with an attempt to blow up a civilian airliner or detonate a suicide bomb in a marketplace.

As for the rest of it, it's blatantly obviously correct. We cannot protect every conceivable target against every conceivable form of attack 24 x 7 forever. Like that's hard to figure out? Of course one cannot fight this battle purely defensively. We have to go where the terrorists live and kill them while they're still plotting.
Diest TKO
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Jan, 2010 06:49 am
@Brandon9000,
Brandon9000 wrote:

Well, here is something the US won't do - deliberately aim a strike at civilians as the primary, intended target, as the terrorists did in 9/11 or in any of the other plane centered terrorist plots.

What is the relevance of this statement? The article is about accepting that attacks will happen, not about what the difference is between the tactics of states and terrorist cells.

Brandon9000 wrote:

What an absolute crock to compare our attack on an army with an attempt to blow up a civilian airliner or detonate a suicide bomb in a marketplace.

Given the context of the question, I don't understand your objection. He asked him in terms of disturbance to the country. Any two things are comparable in that sense.

Brandon9000 wrote:

As for the rest of it, it's blatantly obviously correct. We cannot protect every conceivable target against every conceivable form of attack 24 x 7 forever. Like that's hard to figure out? Of course one cannot fight this battle purely defensively. We have to go where the terrorists live and kill them while they're still plotting.

So can we ever kill all of the terrorists Brandon? Does the world ever run out of them? The thesis is simple, attacks will happen. Go ahead and kill every terrorist in the world right now. give it time, there will be new terrorists and they will eventually have a successful attack. The point he leverages is that it is madness to operate under any illusion that things like terrorism can be prevented forever.

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Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Jan, 2010 07:00 am
@Diest TKO,
Diest TKO wrote:

Brandon9000 wrote:

Well, here is something the US won't do - deliberately aim a strike at civilians as the primary, intended target, as the terrorists did in 9/11 or in any of the other plane centered terrorist plots.

What is the relevance of this statement? The article is about accepting that attacks will happen, not about what the difference is between the tactics of states and terrorist cells.

The relevance is that the opening post was followed by the statement, "Accept it: the US Will Strike Again," as though to say that the US and the terrorists are similar and it's all a matter of point of view, which is nonsense.

Diest TKO wrote:

Brandon9000 wrote:

What an absolute crock to compare our attack on an army with an attempt to blow up a civilian airliner or detonate a suicide bomb in a marketplace.

Given the context of the question, I don't understand your objection. He asked him in terms of disturbance to the country. Any two things are comparable in that sense.

The same as my comment above. Any two things can be compared, but by "comparable," I meant "similar."

Diest TKO wrote:

Brandon9000 wrote:

As for the rest of it, it's blatantly obviously correct. We cannot protect every conceivable target against every conceivable form of attack 24 x 7 forever. Like that's hard to figure out? Of course one cannot fight this battle purely defensively. We have to go where the terrorists live and kill them while they're still plotting.

So can we ever kill all of the terrorists Brandon? Does the world ever run out of them? The thesis is simple, attacks will happen. Go ahead and kill every terrorist in the world right now. give it time, there will be new terrorists and they will eventually have a successful attack. The point he leverages is that it is madness to operate under any illusion that things like terrorism can be prevented forever.

T
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Nor could we have killed all the Nazis in WW2, but there are effective tactics and ineffective tactics, and, as your opening post points out, fighting people intent on murdering you and your countrymen by defense with no offense is ineffective.
Thomas
 
  2  
Reply Thu 21 Jan, 2010 07:19 am
@Diest TKO,
Diest TKO wrote:
Accept it: Terrorists Will Strike Again.

Well, duh. What more is there to say?
Diest TKO
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Jan, 2010 07:27 am
@Brandon9000,
Go ahead And go on the offensive. Terrorist attacks will still happen. You're still falling in the mental trap here Brandon.

T
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0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  5  
Reply Thu 21 Jan, 2010 07:35 am
@Brandon9000,
Brandon wrote:
Well, here is something the US won't do - deliberately aim a strike at civilians as the primary, intended target,

What about the Blackwater incident in Iraq two years ago: Does Blackwater count as part of "the US"? If so, then you're wrong -- that's precisely what the US did there. Blackwater employees machine-gunned a crowd of civilians for no identifiable military reason at all. There is no evidence that Blackwater ever disciplined their employees for the incident. Instead, Blackwater shielded them from being prosecuted under US military law. It also didn't help that, far from punishing them, US courts threw out their case a few weeks ago.
Brandon9000
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 21 Jan, 2010 07:53 am
@Thomas,
Thomas wrote:

Brandon wrote:
Well, here is something the US won't do - deliberately aim a strike at civilians as the primary, intended target,

What about the Blackwater incident in Iraq two years ago: Does Blackwater count as part of "the US"? If so, then you're wrong -- that's precisely what the US did there. Blackwater employees machine-gunned a crowd of civilians for no identifiable military reason at all. There is no evidence that Blackwater ever disciplined their employees for it. Instead, Blackwater shielded them from being prosecuted under US military law. It also didn't help that, far from punishing them, US courts threw out their case a few weeks ago.

The answer is so obvious, it's astounding you'd even ask the question. There is a difference between an isolated representative of a group doing something terrible which is absolutely contrary to policy, and a group doing something as it's standard MO. You're comparing terrosists who bomb airliners or show up in marketplaces with bombs strapped to their waists as their standard policy to the US just because we have the standard societal percentage of criminals in or associated with our military who act against national policy? In the Blackwater case, the government attempted to prosecute, although a judge ultimately dismissed the case. Have the Islamic radical leaders tried to prosecute Osama bin Laden for 9/11?
Thomas
 
  5  
Reply Thu 21 Jan, 2010 08:00 am
@Brandon9000,
Brandon9000 wrote:
In the Blackwater case, the government attempted to prosecute, although a judge ultimately dismissed the case. Have the Islamic radical leaders tried to prosecute Osama bin Laden for 9/11?

No they haven't. But now you're moving your goalposts. Your original claim had been:

Earlier, Brandon wrote:
Well, here is something the US won't do - deliberately aim a strike at civilians as the primary, intended target,

... and it's a simple fact that they have.
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 21 Jan, 2010 08:43 am
@Brandon9000,
Brandon9000 wrote:
Well, here is something the US won't do - deliberately aim a strike at civilians as the primary, intended target, as the terrorists did in 9/11 or in any of the other plane centered terrorist plots. What an absolute crock to compare our attack on an army with an attempt to blow up a civilian airliner or detonate a suicide bomb in a marketplace.

Absolutely right, Brandon.
msolga
 
  3  
Reply Thu 21 Jan, 2010 08:51 am
@Ticomaya,
Yeah, well you know, there where people inside some of those buildings when Bagdad was "shocked & awed"! Some of those buildings we even their homes! Wink

Remember?:

dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Jan, 2010 08:54 am
@Thomas,
Thomas wrote:

Diest TKO wrote:
Accept it: Terrorists Will Strike Again.

Well, duh. What more is there to say?
well, doh.
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  0  
Reply Thu 21 Jan, 2010 08:58 am
@Thomas,
Thomas wrote:

Brandon wrote:
Well, here is something the US won't do - deliberately aim a strike at civilians as the primary, intended target,

What about the Blackwater incident in Iraq two years ago: Does Blackwater count as part of "the US"? If so, then you're wrong -- that's precisely what the US did there. Blackwater employees machine-gunned a crowd of civilians for no identifiable military reason at all. There is no evidence that Blackwater ever disciplined their employees for the incident. Instead, Blackwater shielded them from being prosecuted under US military law. It also didn't help that, far from punishing them, US courts threw out their case a few weeks ago.

Your continued insistence that the "Blackwater incident" constitutes terrorism is ludicrous. The situation appears to have been initially an attempt at self-defense, or defense of comrades, and in opposition to an earlier attack. Heavy-handed? It appears so, but Baghdad's a war-zone, and it's easy to reflect on the incident and assert they should have used greater restraint. But even if they over-reacted to the situation -- which it certainly appears they did -- the alleged facts do not constitute terrorism.

As the witness said, they appeared "nervous." There had been a bombing moment earlier in the area of a US diplomat they were guarding. They fired rounds to "attempt" to "scare people away" -- does that sound like they intentionally attacked these people? They did not roll out that day looking to gun down civilians -- they evidently (and plausibly) reacted to what they thought was a continued attack, having just been attacked moments earlier. I'm not defending their actions, and I'm certainly not saying theirs was a measured response to the threat they faced -- but again, I was not there, and don't have all the facts. What I am suggesting is this is not terrorism. It is, at worst, a heavy-handed, criminal, overreaction.
Joe Nation
 
  5  
Reply Thu 21 Jan, 2010 09:31 am
@msolga,
Nope, Msolga, they do not remember, or if they do, they say something about 9/11 until they are reminded that the war in Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 at which point they fallback into denialism, i.e. "'twas a military attack which didn't specifically target civilians".

I'm sure all the dead civilian's families were very glad to have heard that their relatives were not specifically maimed or killed in the Baghdad and that they just were especially shocked and awed.
==
Stand by for some grumbling about how we are blaming ourselves instead of who's really to blame.

Then there will be some statements full of faulty memories about things past.

Joe(yup, we's as innocent as newborn lambs, fluffy and faultless.)Nation
Thomas
 
  8  
Reply Thu 21 Jan, 2010 10:02 am
@Ticomaya,
Ticomaya wrote:
Your continued insistence that the "Blackwater incident" constitutes terrorism is ludicrous.

... if you say so.

Ticomaya wrote:
It appears so, but Baghdad's a war-zone, and it's easy to reflect on the incident and assert they should have used greater restraint.

Somebody on A2K once taught me the definition of chuzpah: It's when you kill your parents, and then beg the jury for mercy because you're an orphan. In this case, the US started a war in Iraq, US-hired mercenaries arbitrarily fired into a crowd of civilians, and US courts let them get away with it. Your defense of these events is that Iraq is a war zone. How's that for chuzpah?
Irishk
 
  0  
Reply Thu 21 Jan, 2010 10:33 am
@msolga,
Quote:
I don't want to get into cheap responses, Diest ... but my response to this is: Accept it: the US Will Strike Again.


Er, are you calling Obama a ............................. war-monger?????

Oh, my.
0 Replies
 
 

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