10
   

morbid view of Haiti

 
 
Green Witch
 
  2  
Reply Fri 15 Jan, 2010 02:53 pm
@georgeob1,
Quote:
Earthquakes such as this one have caused as much or more death and destruction in other parts of the world. We just didn't pay as much attention to them.


I think this just feels closer to home, but we also know these people have nothing. I remember feeling terrible about the earthquake in China but I also felt they had some on the ground resources to deal with the disaster.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jan, 2010 03:02 pm
I think of the infrastructure needs (just about endless) and the corruption in the way of those improvements happening; the housing needs (I like tinyhouses and similar too) that are complicated by the need to tie the houses down re events like hurricanes and earthquakes - quite expensive, even if just steel connectors to concrete; and, what I just read a bit about, now roving bands of thieves (etc) with machetes, which makes me remember the Sierra Leone of not all that long ago. All so impossible sounding.

But the land is fairly small, how can it be impossible? As many have said in this thread, it won't work unless some of the will for it comes from within, not just imposed. But that is pie-in-the-sky given what they are suffering.
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jan, 2010 03:06 pm
Haiti=population 8 1/2 million, 70,000 buried another 100,000 waiting to be buried, no water/food/housing.300,000 injured; conflict over supplies, Anyone for triage ?
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jan, 2010 03:29 pm
@dyslexia,
It must be hell.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  2  
Reply Fri 15 Jan, 2010 03:32 pm
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:
Earthquakes such as this one have caused as much or more death and destruction in other parts of the world. We just didn't pay as much attention to them.



http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/world/world_deaths_sort.php
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jan, 2010 03:37 pm
@sozobe,
Oh, man. I've read a bunch about the Messina earthquake.
0 Replies
 
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jan, 2010 04:51 pm
@Foofie,
Foofie wrote:

Green Witch wrote:

The Haitians made a pack the Devil and he threw the French out. True Story.


I do not believe that Haiti made a pact with the Devil. .....


That's the part of their history they're proudest of - though not referring to him as a "devil" but rather as one of their voodoo "gods" or "spirits". Btw, is this the French-bashing thread? Good, I also have a gripe, not related to any voodoo gods, but taking place at about the same time as the Haitian slave uprising:
Quote:
...when the French invented the metric system in 1795, two years after they changed the calendar, they decimalised everything except time. There were base units for length, area, volume, weight and even currency. But seconds and minutes, hours and days, weeks and months were left unscathed....That, along with the failure to decimalise the compass, was perhaps the metrication commission’s biggest setback. Its august president, the noted mathematician Joseph-Louis Lagrange, tried in vain to get the Republic to adopt the déci-jour and centi-jour...

http://www.economist.com/daily/columns/techview/displaystory.cfm?story_id=15311296

I know this is a sore point but WHEN are we going to go metric in the US? Already 2 satellites have been lost because they had code written in both metric and imperial units, and result of the calculations was so far off that the poor onboard computers decided to go into system shutdown.

ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jan, 2010 05:05 pm
Smiles..

I use both. Don't happen to hate the french.
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  3  
Reply Fri 15 Jan, 2010 05:08 pm
@High Seas,
Speaking of pacts with the devil ...:

Quote:
The White House has dismissed a comment by evangelical preacher Pat Robertson that Haiti's earthquake was retribution for the country swearing a "pact to the devil". ......

Mr Robertson weighed in on Haiti's history on his Christian Broadcasting Network show The 700 Club on Wednesday.

Haitians were originally "under the heel of the French. You know, Napoleon III, or whatever. And they got together and swore a pact to the devil," said the 80-year-old former presidential candidate.

"They said, we will serve you if you will get us free from the French. True story. And so, the devil said, 'OK it's a deal'.

"Ever since, they have been cursed by one thing after the other."

White House spokesman Robert Gibbs rejected those comments at his daily press briefing, hours after US President Barack Obama told Haitians they would not be forsaken or forgotten.

"It never ceases to amaze that in times of amazing human suffering, somebody says something that could be so utterly stupid," Mr Gibbs said.


White House condemns pastor's 'devil pact' comments
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/01/15/2792939.htm?site=news
ossobuco
 
  2  
Reply Fri 15 Jan, 2010 05:15 pm
@msolga,
It scares me how many people here in the US believe all this Pat Robinson stuff. I don't know Haitians at all.
Still, Haitian spiritual practices need to be understood by blundering helpers.
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jan, 2010 05:20 pm
@ossobuco,
I won't go into the reported horrors of US media evangelists, osso (yes, I've heard!) - it's such a breathtakingly insensitive & stupid comment to make at a time like this. But it really makes you wonder ...

Agreed on your second point.
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jan, 2010 05:28 pm
Quote:
People have started blocking roads with corpses in Haiti's capital Port-au-Prince to protest against the delay in emergency aid, an eyewitness says.

TIME magazine photographer Shaul Schwarz said he saw at least two downtown roadblocks formed with bodies of earthquake victims and rocks.

"They are starting to block the roads with bodies; it's getting ugly out there," he said. "People are fed up with getting no help."

Aid has not yet reached the shell-shocked residents of Port-au-Prince, who are wandering their broken streets searching for water, food and medical help as night falls for the third time since the earthquake.

The stench of death from decomposing bodies hung over Port-au-Prince as residents prepared for another night in the open. ...


Angry Haitians block roads with corpses: witness:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/01/15/2793056.htm
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  2  
Reply Fri 15 Jan, 2010 05:34 pm
@Green Witch,
Green Witch wrote:

Quote:
Earthquakes such as this one have caused as much or more death and destruction in other parts of the world. We just didn't pay as much attention to them.


I think this just feels closer to home, but we also know these people have nothing. I remember feeling terrible about the earthquake in China but I also felt they had some on the ground resources to deal with the disaster.



Isn't that closer to home thing pretty reasonable?

Haiti IS closer to your home, isn't it?

It seems to me, where a poor country suffers a terrible disaster, that the rich country near it takes the lead.

That certainly happened with the tsunami......countries from all over helped, of course, the US greatly so, but Australia (rightly in my view) considered the disaster to be fairly and squarely our job.

Other, smaller, storms and tsunamis near us have devastated some of our neighbours. I am not sure if they even registered on US radar? But they sure as hell did on ours, and were also kind of "ours."


I don't think you have to defend seeing Haiti as a major US responsibility.

It's not yours alone, of course...but what I see of the US response is cause for congratulations to you guys.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jan, 2010 05:35 pm
@msolga,
What on earth was this "pact" suppposed the hell to be?
fbaezer
 
  5  
Reply Fri 15 Jan, 2010 05:36 pm
The effects of this quake are different than in other countries.
The main reason is that Haiti has no working State, no real government.
The biggest tragedy amidst the earthquake was the destruction of the UN headquarters in Port-Au-Prince; the ones that could somehow coordinate the help are dead.
The latest reports talk about the populace looting, fighting fiercely for food and water and even attempting to mug the few rescue teams that have managed to arrive.

Not PC to say, but Haiti is a country that needs to be practically rebuilt from scratch with a big contribution from outside. And needs to be closely watched.

Even if I agree that the misery and corruption in Haiti is mostly the work of the Haitians themselves, both the US and France have mishandled their influence over that country (do I need to remember that both the Docs fell under the "our sons of a bitch" category or that poor Haiti ended up paying rich France for its independence a huge sum -lent by French bankers of course- up to the last penny, until 1947?), could do better now and are in a position to do better now.



dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jan, 2010 05:41 pm
@fbaezer,
Do you think that there is much chance that this tragedy might mean that some such undertaking is taken on?

It's extraordinarily hard and expensive and LOOOOOOONG TERM to help a country remake itself, I would have thought?

I was reading about the country recently...it seems it is a true nightmare in many ways.

Do you think richer countries in Latin America might pitch in?

edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jan, 2010 05:44 pm
@fbaezer,
The thing to me is, once they hit a certain level, there were no boot straps by which they could pull themselves up. The exceptional few in any situation can make a go of it, but there are no opportunities for the masses that I can discern, and nobody investing any money that provides jobs. I don't know to what extent they are responsible, if opportunities did not exist.
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jan, 2010 05:50 pm
@dlowan,
Quote:
What on earth was this "pact" supposed the hell to be?


I think some of the US poster here are more in the know about that, Deb.

A few comments earlier in the thread.

As for the "retribution" comment, well .... Neutral
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jan, 2010 05:52 pm
@fbaezer,
I think corruption is a normal human response seen over and over.

Personally I'm no where near as agitated re "terrorism" as I am against corruption, not that I have a clue what to do with it.
0 Replies
 
fbaezer
 
  2  
Reply Fri 15 Jan, 2010 05:56 pm
@dlowan,
dlowan wrote:

Do you think that there is much chance that this tragedy might mean that some such undertaking is taken on?


The destruction is to total (for example, they are already planning to move the capital elsewhere), it practically becomes an opportunity.

Quote:

It's extraordinarily hard and expensive and LOOOOOOONG TERM to help a country remake itself, I would have thought?


Well, yes. But probably much less expensive than some wars in Central Asia and some necessary bailouts.


Quote:

I was reading about the country recently...it seems it is a true nightmare in many ways.


It seems to have been a nightmare even before the quake. Now it's like Dante's inferno. No food, no water, no electricity, no gasoline, no working airport or ports. No organization whatsoever. On one hand, people trying to rescue survivors working with their bare hands (have yet to see a crane or something like that on the photos). On the other, rampage & riots (people making barricades with corpses). On the most recent picture I saw, there was a man atop the debris of what it's said to have been a supermarket, pointing his rifle to other people. Don't know if he was sent there by the owner or wants to hoard the goods below for his own profit.

Quote:

Do you think richer countries in Latin America might pitch in?


The ones I've seen doing the most are Mexico, Venezuela and the Dominican Republic neighbours. I imagine Brazil's help is on the way.
We have sent an envoy. Since there is no air-bridge, he's currently aboard a Hospital-Ship Mexico has sent, and expects to arrive on Monday (Tuesday for Oz).
 

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