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the value improved?

 
 
Adverb
 
Reply Sat 9 Jan, 2010 08:22 am
I was reading a short essay about housing prices in some cities but was uncertain about a phrase the writer used to describe the rise of house prices. He said ,and I quote" the average values improved."
Are value and improve collocated with one another?
Hope to get a native speaker's perspective.
Thanks!
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Type: Question • Score: 1 • Views: 1,053 • Replies: 19
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contrex
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Jan, 2010 08:42 am
What do you mean by "collocated with each other"?
Adverb
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Jan, 2010 08:45 am
@contrex,
I mean if the phrase"the value improved" makes sense, and does it sound weird to native speakers?
contrex
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Jan, 2010 12:46 pm
@Adverb,
It does not sound weird; using "improved" implies that the lower previous value was somehow regardeded as bad or unfortunate for somebody. If it was not desired to imply this, then "increased" might be better.

My father, a chicken farmer, is pleased because egg prices have improved this month.

0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Jan, 2010 01:15 pm
@Adverb,
Quote:
Are value and improve often collocated with one another?


Yes, Adverb, those two words collocate. As to how often they do so, that could be determined with a corpus review. Nut it's not important to your study to know that. All you have to know is that it is a natural collocation.
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Jan, 2010 01:43 pm

I don't think "value" and "improve" go well together.

Value increases or decreases.
contrex
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Jan, 2010 05:43 am
@McTag,
Quote:
I don't think "value" and "improve" go well together.

Value increases or decreases.


It's a question of using the language flexibly and of choosing the appropriate word. "Increase" means "become bigger" or "grow" or "become more numerous". "Improve" means "get better" or "become more favourable" or -- by implication sometimes -- "become less unfavourable". Both words are acceptable depending on the circumstances and the shade of meaning intended.

"Improved" implies a value judgement. "Increased" does not.

Ford have redesigned the engine in a certain car. This has resulted in increased performance. (A measurable statistic - e.g. top speed or acceleration or whatever, has got bigger.) (The car does something more than it did before)

Ford have redesigned the engine in a certain car. This has resulted in improved performance. (An aspect of the car's performance has become more appealing to buyers.) (The car does something better than it did before.)

Someone anxious to sell their house might well call an increase in property values an "improvement".

Someone anxious to buy a house as cheaply as possible would call an decrease in property values an "improvement".

Someone seeking to invest money would call an increase in interest rates an improvement, but somebody else seeking to borrow money would see a decrease as an improvement.





0 Replies
 
Adverb
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Jan, 2010 11:35 pm
@contrex,
collocate
(of words and phrases) to often be used together in a way that sounds correct to people who have spoken the language all their lives, but might not be expected from the meaning
by http://dictionary.cambridge.org/
Got it?
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Jan, 2010 02:24 am
@Adverb,

Don't be impolite, to a person who was trying to help you.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Jan, 2010 12:40 pm
@McTag,
If a native speaker, especially one who holds himself out as some kind of an expert on language doesn't know or can't figure out such an obvious meaning,

Are value and improve collocated with one another?

perhaps it's time to consider retirement.
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Jan, 2010 05:33 pm
@JTT,

Don't be unnecessarily obtuse. I have spoken the truth here (in my usual spirit of helpfulness).

People who are unsure of the language might be better to avoid using words like collocate, imho.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Jan, 2010 05:53 pm
@McTag,
You normally are exceedingly helpful, McTag. Here, not so much.

Students who use a word that is too difficult for the teacher to comprehend are the ones to blame. Sounds odd to me.

No doubt you read my reply to Setanta on this same issue. collocate is a commonly used term in ESL/EFL/ language science. People who want to dabble in those areas ought to get up to speed.
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Jan, 2010 03:58 am
@JTT,

Many professions- all professions I suppose- use language in their own particular way. This, I suspect, is partly to exclude the "uninitiated" and partly to show how clever they are.
A form of smoke and mirrors.
Most ideas can be simply put, and indeed benefit from so being.

But that's not what I, at least, was talking about here. Collocation (in linguistics terms) is "the juxtaposition or association of a particular word with another particular word or words", that's all. So far, so simple. I was merely pointing out the difference in shades of meaning and usage between "value" and "improve".
engineer
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Jan, 2010 07:33 am
@Adverb,
I think you would see phrases like this in written articles and I think everyone would know what was meant. It wouldn't strike me as strange if I read it even if "increased" is better than "improved".
0 Replies
 
engineer
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Jan, 2010 07:35 am
@McTag,
McTag wrote:

Don't be impolite, to a person who was trying to help you.

I agree with sentiment. Contrex routinely helps people with these types of questions and the snarky come back to an honest question was, while typical of Internet forums, not warranted.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Jan, 2010 11:54 am
@McTag,
Indeed they do, Sire, and you've made some excellent points here. I don't believe I commented at all on the distinctions you drew on the "shades of meaning and usage between "value" and "improve".

Having said that, instead of using collocate, Adverb could have used,

Does [___] juxtapose or associate with [___]?
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Jan, 2010 12:02 pm
@engineer,
Contrex is not above being snarky with students himself, though it isn't clear that he was being so in this case. Perhaps, Adverb overreacted a bit, and Contrex got one barrel when both should have been aimed squarely at Setanta.

But I find it odd that y'all jump on Adverb and make a wide circle around Setanta's ignorance.
0 Replies
 
contrex
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Jan, 2010 02:03 pm
Surely, in the phrase "collocated with each other", the phrase "with each other" is redundant?

Don't worry about me, folks, if Adverb wants to be a wanker, that's the last help he'll get from me!
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Jan, 2010 02:07 pm
@JTT,

Quote:
Indeed they do, Sire, and you've made some excellent points here. I don't believe I commented at all on the distinctions you drew on the "shades of meaning and usage between "value" and "improve".

Having said that, instead of using collocate, Adverb could have used,

Does [___] juxtapose or associate with [___]?


You can juxtapose or collocate "chalk" and "cheese" if you want to.

Was he not trying to draw out some meaning here? That's what I was trying to help with.

Right, I'm out.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Jan, 2010 02:19 pm
@contrex,
Quote:
Don't worry about me, folks, if Adverb wants to be a wanker, that's the last help he'll get from me!


Having been on more than one occasion a bit of a wanker yourself, Contrex, "Surely, in the phrase "collocated with each other", the phrase "with each other" is redundant?", he could be forgiven.

The last help from you, definitely a mixed blessing.
0 Replies
 
 

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