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Would you support suspending aid to Israel and Palestine?

 
 
Robert Gentel
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 May, 2011 05:27 pm
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:
Israel was the sole voice shouting out in favour of Mubarak.


That isn't true. For one the Palestinian Authority also did. Abbas called the US "impolite" in not supporting Mubarak and "imprudent" to push him out.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 May, 2011 06:30 pm
@Robert Gentel,
Abbas is little more than a quisling
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 May, 2011 06:41 pm
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

Since then they've continued to terrorise their neighbours, lanching missiles, commando raids and wars without any respect for international law.


I found myself kind of nodding my head while I read this. Then I realized you were talking about Israel.
0 Replies
 
revelette
 
  1  
Reply Sat 28 May, 2011 06:55 am
@Robert Gentel,
Quote:
That isn't true. For one the Palestinian Authority also did. Abbas called the US "impolite" in not supporting Mubarak and "imprudent" to push him out.


That is surprising. Wonder what he makes of the new leaders in Egypt opening its border with Gaza?
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Sat 28 May, 2011 07:02 am
@revelette,
Israel likes to paint itself as the only democracy in the Middle East. Dictators can be bought off, a nation can't. I welcome the opening of the border with Gaza, if nothing else it should allow essential medical supplies through and stop a few pointless deaths. and before any of the more rabid members of A2K say otherwise. I do not agree with weapons and explosives going into Gaza, concrete to rebuild bomb damaged homes is another matter.
0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 May, 2011 08:23 pm
Well, perhaps the Palestineans will one day be Egyptians? Now wouldn't that be a smart move, since a new Palestinean state would have an economy based on what? World welfare?

And, the West Bank Palestineans could be Jordaneans?

If these thoughts came to pass, then in effect, the moral of the story would be that having peace with Israel ultimately paid off with more land. A lesson perhaps for the concept of "getting with the program."
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 May, 2011 08:14 am
Denying the Palestinians their right to self-determination is inexcusable. Israel is only being required to give back the land it illegally occupied in 1967.
Foofie
 
  0  
Reply Tue 31 May, 2011 07:18 pm
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

Denying the Palestinians their right to self-determination is inexcusable. Israel is only being required to give back the land it illegally occupied in 1967.


Pshaw. The Palestineans are just Arabs that moved into the Holy Land neighborhood when the Jews decided to make it into a fertile land. Palestineans are just Arabs in the Holy Land. Just another neighborhood changing the demographic.

Should the Palestineans have to wait two-thousand years like the Jews? That might be fair play?
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Jun, 2011 10:04 am
@Foofie,
Foofie wrote:

[ The Palestineans are just Arabs.


They are a people deserving the right to self determination. You're just displaying the racism that typifies Israel's relations with its neighbours.
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Jun, 2011 06:14 pm
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

They are a people deserving the right to self determination. You're just displaying the racism that typifies Israel's relations with its neighbours.


Do you believe that the Jews of Israel have an equal right to self-determination?

Could there be an equally racist element in the attitude of the Palestinians and their Arab neighbors ?

Both parties in this dispute want the same thing - the land of Palestine. Both appear to be equally unwilling to establish a state that would accomodate them both. The dispute will continue until both conclude that mutual toleration is better than a continued dispute.
0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  0  
Reply Wed 8 Jun, 2011 10:54 am
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

Foofie wrote:

[ The Palestineans are just Arabs.


They are a people deserving the right to self determination. You're just displaying the racism that typifies Israel's relations with its neighbours.


Here is the original version of what I said that you truncated:
"Pshaw. The Palestineans are just Arabs that moved into the Holy Land neighborhood when the Jews decided to make it into a fertile land. Palestineans are just Arabs in the Holy Land. Just another neighborhood changing the demographic.

Should the Palestineans have to wait two-thousand years like the Jews? That might be fair play? "

So, yes, the Palestineans are just Arabs that moved into the Holy Land, at the point that Jews started returning.

You be slick, in my opinion.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Jun, 2011 07:22 pm
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:
Denying the Palestinians their right to self-determination is inexcusable. Israel is only being required to give back the land it illegally occupied in 1967.


Nope. No one is requiring anything of Israel. Nor was it illegal for Israel to go on the offensive when the Arabs attacked them in 1967.

And denying the Palestinians self-determination is perfectly excusable. Every time the Palestinians are offered any sort of a step toward self-determination, all they do is try to murder children. Enough.
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Jun, 2011 08:38 pm
What's dumbfounding about this discussion is the support expressed by otherwise enlightened people for the continued existence of Israel as an ethnocentric state that concerns itself with the maintanance of a demographic majority of one ethnic group, "Jews," at the expense of the rights of another ethnic group, the Palestinians.

For Israel to exist as "the Jewish state" it must necessarily discriminate against and oppress the Palestinian peoples, systematically discriminating against those in Israel and denying rights granted by international law to the refugees, and yet the people here who call for some sort of justice in this conflict between the Zionists and the Palestinians, and invoke the ideas of "democracy" and even morality support the continued existence of this repressive state. What gives?
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Jun, 2011 08:42 am
@InfraBlue,
InfraBlue wrote:

What's dumbfounding about this discussion is the support expressed by otherwise enlightened people for the continued existence of Israel as an ethnocentric state that concerns itself with the maintanance of a demographic majority of one ethnic group, "Jews," at the expense of the rights of another ethnic group, the Palestinians.

For Israel to exist as "the Jewish state" it must necessarily discriminate against and oppress the Palestinian peoples, systematically discriminating against those in Israel and denying rights granted by international law to the refugees, and yet the people here who call for some sort of justice in this conflict between the Zionists and the Palestinians, and invoke the ideas of "democracy" and even morality support the continued existence of this repressive state. What gives?


You are perceiving Israel, in my opinion, through the eyes/mind of an American, since America is a diverse land of many peoples. From its inception, Israel was a place to "put" the Jews, since Europe has an intractable mental illness called "anti-Semitism."

So, if western countries were going to show its civilized manner, even though it collectively "yawned," in my opinion, when the killing of the Holocaust was found out, it (western countries) realized that Jews require a safe haven away from Gentiles for purposes of living peacefully. Notice that did not happen, since as I said, anti-Semitism is an intractable mental illness.

In effect, due to the tribal instincts of man, Jews cannot go by the rule of a diverse homeland. By the way, notice how many potential homelands Catholics have, or Protestants have. They may not be called homelands, but there is more than one country where a Catholic or Protestant can live in peace with the rest of the country.

InfraBlue
 
  2  
Reply Thu 9 Jun, 2011 09:54 am
@Foofie,
Europe's anti-Semitism does not justify the Zionist's repression of the Palestinian peoples, nor does the idea of the tribal nature of man. These are merely rationalizations for the existence of Israel as an ethnocentric state, and completely avoids the fact of its necessarilly repressive nature, and its discrmination against and oppression of the Palestinian peoples.

Your assertion that Jews cannot go by the rule of a diverse homeland is negated by the fact that Jews can and do go by the rule of a diverse homeland in countries all over the world. Your own continued existence along with the majority of the world's Jewish population outside of any kind of ethnocentric state negates that assertion. This assertion of yours, furthermore, is prejudiced against Jews and is anti-Semitic.
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Fri 10 Jun, 2011 12:08 pm
@InfraBlue,
InfraBlue wrote:

Europe's anti-Semitism does not justify the Zionist's repression of the Palestinian peoples, nor does the idea of the tribal nature of man. These are merely rationalizations for the existence of Israel as an ethnocentric state, and completely avoids the fact of its necessarilly repressive nature, and its discrmination against and oppression of the Palestinian peoples.

Your assertion that Jews cannot go by the rule of a diverse homeland is negated by the fact that Jews can and do go by the rule of a diverse homeland in countries all over the world. Your own continued existence along with the majority of the world's Jewish population outside of any kind of ethnocentric state negates that assertion. This assertion of yours, furthermore, is prejudiced against Jews and is anti-Semitic.


Sorry. History is on my side. That is why the UN in 1948 made a Jewish Homeland. Get the Arabs to learn to love Jews, and I believe there won't be any oppression of Arabs, Palestineans or otherwise. Firstly, can you learn to love Jews? Oh, I'm sorry; you do love Jews already. How ignorant of me.
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Fri 10 Jun, 2011 01:06 pm
@Foofie,
When one intends to use the word "firstly" in speech or writing, one implies that a list or series is to follow. If, in actuality, no such list or series is to follow, then one should omit the use of that word.

Firstly, the UN also called for the return of the refugees following the Nakba. Secondly, the UN certainly didn't call for a repressive, ethnocentric "Jewish Homeland."

There will not be anymore opression of the Palestinian peoples once the Zionists give up their opressive, ethnocentric dreamland and own their responsibilities and obligations to the Palestinian peoples.

Love the Palestinians, Foofie.
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Fri 10 Jun, 2011 06:26 pm
@InfraBlue,
InfraBlue wrote:

When one intends to use the word "firstly" in speech or writing, one implies that a list or series is to follow. If, in actuality, no such list or series is to follow, then one should omit the use of that word.

Firstly, the UN also called for the return of the refugees following the Nakba. Secondly, the UN certainly didn't call for a repressive, ethnocentric "Jewish Homeland."

There will not be anymore opression of the Palestinian peoples once the Zionists give up their opressive, ethnocentric dreamland and own their responsibilities and obligations to the Palestinian peoples.

Love the Palestinians, Foofie.




I believe the Palestineans have been used too long as a proxy weapon by the Arabs in surrounding countries, since they never took the Palestineans into their countries, and allowed the Palestineans to be a burr under the proverbial saddle (of the Israelis). Regardless, the Palestineans have been brainwashed, I believe, with too much anti-Semitic propaganda, not just anti-Israel rhetoric for me to feel comfortable with them. Plus, they are too macho/patriarchal for me.

Actually, as an American, I do not care much what happens in the Middle East. I care for Americans. I wonder why others get so involved with people on the other side of the planet? Can I assume you are an American?
0 Replies
 
 

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