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Philadelphia Transit Union Strike

 
 
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Nov, 2009 02:57 pm
@Ceili,
Ceili wrote:

the public demand nice guys.


I think the problem is that you're speaking about Canadian bus drivers, and I'm thinking about the assholes that we have in Chicago and the one's I've seen when I visited New York and Seattle.
Ceili
 
  2  
Reply Wed 4 Nov, 2009 03:00 pm
Most of the training and test questions for hiring we used are designed in the US.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  2  
Reply Wed 4 Nov, 2009 03:01 pm
@maporsche,
New York City's got quite pleasant, helpful transit employees. At least that's been my experience over the past few decades. Never had any problems in Chicago either. <shrug> You get out of life what you put into it.
Ceili
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Nov, 2009 03:03 pm
@maporsche,
So then this is really about your personal dislike for bus drivers. That I can buy. I wished i could have gotten rid of most of the assholes we had too. Most of them were the dinosaurs hired before the modern testing models. This was my problem with the union. Not that the ask for more money, but that they protected the jerks. It's very, very difficult to fire a bad egg.
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Nov, 2009 03:05 pm
@Ceili,
And you arent telling me anything I dont already know.
I have been a professional driver for the last 20 years, driving both trucks AND busses.
I know what the requirements are to get a job driving either one, and am familiar with everything you are saying.

That does not change the fact that there are qualified bus drivers driving trucks.
They do simply because they like driving a truck, or because they dont know the right person or have the patience to go thru the long, tedious process to become a bus driver.
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Nov, 2009 03:09 pm
@Ceili,
Not just about them.

I do think these salaries are too much (regardless of how nice the bus driver is), and I do think that these high salaries have provide negative downward pressure to expand mass-transit in the USA, especially to surburban areas. I think this is a HUGE problem in my country. There is very poor public transportation coverage in the USA; now that I know what some of these bus drivers make, I think it explains part of it (not all, but part).

But yeah, the fact that unions make it all but impossible to fire anybody, I think that's a huge problem too. Not only here, but with all unions.

I'm pretty much anti-union I would say; I like what they did decades and decades ago, but in today's world I think they've ran their course.
0 Replies
 
Ceili
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Nov, 2009 03:10 pm
@mysteryman,
I know plenty of truck drivers that are driving a truck because...
a) the hiring process is so long, and not guaranteed you'll make it just because you passed the initial interviews.
b) they can't take the people
c) more freedom, less bullshit and generally more money.
Lots of them would love it though, they can stay home at night. Guaranteed hours, a decent wage...
But just because they can, doesn't make it feasible.
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Nov, 2009 03:10 pm
@ehBeth,
ehBeth wrote:

You get out of life what you put into it.


Are you subtly trying to say that I'm the asshole?
Ceili
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Nov, 2009 03:14 pm
@maporsche,
Do you really consider 55,000 a huge wage? Even with health care, which I believe everyone should have access to, I don't consider this an extravagant salary.
Ceili
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Nov, 2009 03:20 pm
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I've been told, US citizens vote on the infrastructure they want or are not interested in. I've spoken to people in the Northwest who were adamantly opposed to spending on improved and expanded transit, rail or transportation infrastructure. They voted against it? How is the fault of any transit organization. If your hands are tied by the shortsightedness of your electorate and it always come down to money, very few people vote to up their taxes. I remember reading angry missives from voters in Oregon choked when they voted against a transit proposal and it was approved regardless. If people don't find value in the service they will not support it. Even if it's for their own good.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Nov, 2009 03:21 pm
@Ceili,
Ceili wrote:

Do you really consider 55,000 a huge wage? Even with health care, which I believe everyone should have access to, I don't consider this an extravagant salary.


It's more then I make, so yeah.

I would dare say that I could do the average bus drivers job with a week of training. There is absolutely no way a bus driver could do my job with a weeks training.

Maybe I should become a bus driver.
0 Replies
 
Ceili
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Nov, 2009 03:23 pm
Maybe you should, but unless you get into a well paying system.. I think you'll be disappointed with most US cities pay scale. Come up to Canada, we pay a living wage.
I doubt you could do it with a week of training, but you're welcome to believe what you will.
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Nov, 2009 03:28 pm
@Ceili,
Ceili wrote:

Do you really consider 55,000 a huge wage? Even with health care, which I believe everyone should have access to, I don't consider this an extravagant salary.


No, I don't think it's a huge wage. If I only made $55,000 I'd be looking for a new job.

I DO think it's a lot of money to be paying a bus driver though. I don't believe the services they provide warrent that high of a salary. And there are millions of people right now, who make less, or are unemployed that would agree with me, provided they were allowed to compete for these jobs, but the union pretty much guarentees that won't happen, right?
Ceili
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Nov, 2009 03:32 pm
@maporsche,
I'm not sure I want to continue this discussion with you.
You feel you're worth more then others and if you were boss of the world, you would deny others the opportunity to make a good wage.
I'm glad you're not.
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Nov, 2009 03:35 pm
@Ceili,
Ceili wrote:

I'm not sure I want to continue this discussion with you.
You feel you're worth more then others and if you were boss of the world, you would deny others the opportunity to make a good wage.
I'm glad you're not.


I don't think that's what he is saying or has said in any way.
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Nov, 2009 03:36 pm
@Ceili,
Well that's one odd way to interperet what I said.

The JOB they do is, in my mind, not worth what they are currently being paid.

It has nothing to do with THEM, but instead their chosen line of work.

If someone chooses a job that people place a low value on, it's not my responsibility to make sure he gets paid a lot of money. It's his responsibility to chose a job that pays him as much money as he's happy to earn for the job that he's required to do.

If I feel like my job or my field doesn't pay me enough money, I go find another job that pays me more or makes me happier.
0 Replies
 
Ceili
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Nov, 2009 03:39 pm
@McGentrix,
M has stated that if he was the boss he wouldn't pay them anything close to that wage, a wage he wouldn't accept for being to low.
He obviously places his worth higher than the rest of the great unwashed. He wouldn't give 'em money cause he's met some rude drivers. I could go on, but this is pointless.
I think people should be paid well, he doesn't. What more can I add?
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Nov, 2009 03:40 pm
@Ceili,
I would never force someone to stay a bus driver if they were unhappy being a bus driver.

But bus drivers are only worth so much money to anybody.

What is the most you'd be willing to pay a bus driver? I will assume you don't think that bus drivers should earn $100k/year do you? What about $500k? Where is your cap?
Ceili
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Nov, 2009 03:43 pm
@maporsche,
Obviously, the union has a cap. They haven't asked for 100k or 500k.
I'm not advocating they make more than they've asked for.
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Nov, 2009 03:45 pm
@Ceili,
I desire to make more money than $55,000 per year. Therefore I would not chose to become a bus driver. I have chosen another profession that pays me more money than bus drivers earn.

THAT is what I said/meant.

There is nothing arrogant or wrong with that statement. Not every job is paid the same wage. I found a job that pays me what I want to get paid (and really, I want to make even more money, so I'm trying to find work that will pay me even more).
0 Replies
 
 

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