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Philadelphia Transit Union Strike

 
 
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Nov, 2009 10:20 am
@mysteryman,
Quote:
What do you think their salary should be?

If you are concerned about the growing gap between rich and poor in the US and if you truly think we need pressure to raise wages for the people (teachers, drivers, policemen, builders) who keep this country running, then would you support an increase in the minimum wage to $50/hr?


The way you get to a fair salary is to ensure a level playing field. I don't have a set target, I do want the workers to have leverage (to counteract the leverage big business ha). Strong unions are the best way to do this.

Obviously $50/hr minimum wage is extreme. I would not support it.

I do support affordable health care for all and strong social programs (especially education). Things like this help everyone and improve our society.




0 Replies
 
Gala
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Nov, 2009 10:21 am
@maporsche,
I want to know because I couldn't assume what your background is, although I admit, I thought it was more along the lines of privilege.
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Nov, 2009 10:57 am
@Gala,
Does my background provide you any insight on my posts? or what I said?

It shouldn't. One's words should stand alone.
Ceili
 
  5  
Reply Wed 4 Nov, 2009 12:44 pm
I used to drive a bus for a living. Then I became an inspector. I used to get all the union mags from the transit union and I was always surprised at how poorly most US drivers were paid. I'm often surprised at how little police, army, nurses and teachers are paid too. This is not right, but with the Walmartization of jobs, where we consistently undervalue people it not unexpected.
Very few transit operations in N. America make close to 50% of their budget. All systems are heavily subsidized. In places where the systems have been meted out to private companies, they have either gone bankrupt, service was cut to make up for the shortfall or have been re-taken over by the local governments because of a myriad of problems. Namely because these companies hired drivers who were not qualified and the lawsuits that ensued.
Bus drivers are held to a very high standard in the court system.
Drivers are skilled labour. They might not train for years like a doctor, but the stress of driving for an eight hour shift, or split shifts (make for very long days), navigating through heavy traffic, often with less than desirable passengers is not for the light hearted.

I don't begrudge anyone a decent wage. I do hate the attitude that people hold, thinking some jobs and people aren't worth it.
Walk a mile and all that....
eoe
 
  2  
Reply Wed 4 Nov, 2009 12:52 pm
@Ceili,
Thank you for a voice of experience.
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Nov, 2009 01:14 pm
@Ceili,
Ceili wrote:

I do hate the attitude that people hold, thinking some jobs and people aren't worth it.


It's not that I don't think the people themselves are not worth it.

But I'm fairly certain that bus drivers that are making $50k/year in salary, AND have some of the best benefits in the entire country, ARE indeed overpaid. In the sense that there are many people who can and would do the job equally as well for less money.

That's pretty much the definition of overpaid isn't it?



If they made less, you could expand public transportation to more areas; I have to think that is in the best interest of everyone (except maybe bus drivers).




But all that's besides the point.

They have just gone on STRIKE asking for EVEN MORE money. That is just WRONG. You guys know it too, which is why no one is defending their actions.
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Nov, 2009 01:23 pm
@maporsche,
Quote:

But I'm fairly certain that bus drivers that are making $50k/year in salary, AND have some of the best benefits in the entire country, ARE indeed overpaid. In the sense that there are many people who can and would do the job equally as well for less money.

That's pretty much the definition of overpaid isn't it?


I disagree with this definition of overpaid. My definition of "underpaid" is when someone works hard providing a valuable service to a community but doesn't make enough money to pay for basic housing, food and necessities for his family.

With your definition of overpaid-- it would be possible to be both overpaid and underpaid at the same time.
Gala
 
  3  
Reply Wed 4 Nov, 2009 01:44 pm
@maporsche,
Quote:
Does my background provide you any insight on my posts? or what I said?

It shouldn't. One's words should stand alone.

If your words should stand alone by this thread, then I think you think you're better than most people.
roger
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Nov, 2009 02:00 pm
@ebrown p,
Only if his definition were combined with your definition.
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Nov, 2009 02:04 pm
@Gala,
Gala wrote:

If your words should stand alone by this thread, then I think you think you're better than most people.


Not sure how you arrive here....

What I mean is that my personal life experiences should have no bearing on the perceived quality of my argument. That is a logical fallacy.
Ceili
 
  3  
Reply Wed 4 Nov, 2009 02:05 pm
Wages typically are on 30% of the equation. This is for the planners, management, mechanics, security et al. Each bus cost about $250,000 cdn.
Infrastructure costs, signage, depots, camera, computer systems, investigations and lawsuits... all cost money too.
Just because people will work for less doesn't mean that it a sustainable model. When you undervalue a service or people then you have the degradation of our way of life. If you wish to live with peasants, go a head. I'm sure countries like Bangladesh would welcome you.
Ceili
 
  2  
Reply Wed 4 Nov, 2009 02:07 pm
Most of the wage increases are based on cost of living increases. As costs go up, shouldn't wages?
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Wed 4 Nov, 2009 02:09 pm
@maporsche,
maporsche wrote:

If they made less, you could expand public transportation to more areas; I have to think that is in the best interest of everyone (except maybe bus drivers).


Why, do you think, public transport is better and more expanded in countries where bus drivers get the same (plus free health care and a couple of other benefits all civil servants/employees get)?
(Generally bus drivers, but explicitely those in public transport, must have attended an academy course, after a couple of years practise as lorry drivers and a three year apprenticeship as skilled worker/lorry driver. [Or they can do that in a kind of dual-education at an academy/college.]
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Nov, 2009 02:09 pm
@Ceili,
You are appealing to the extremes.

It's not

$70,000 in annual compensation (likely more than 80% of American's receive)

OR

Sleeping in a drainage ditch in a 3rd world country.


There are just 1 or 2 more steps in between that I think may make more sense.
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Nov, 2009 02:10 pm
@Ceili,
They are asking for guarenteed wage increases, regardless of cost of living. For example, in the USA there is no 2009 cost of living increase, however these transit workers are wanting one. Even STRIKING for one.
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Nov, 2009 02:11 pm
my first job out of college (public school teacher) paid $4,900 per year, gas was 21.9 and my house payment was $119 per month. Times have changed.
0 Replies
 
Gala
 
  2  
Reply Wed 4 Nov, 2009 02:11 pm
@maporsche,
Quote:
What I mean is that my personal life experiences should have no bearing on the perceived quality of my argument. That is a logical fallacy..

The perceived quality of your argument makes you appear as if you think you are better than most people.
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Nov, 2009 02:12 pm
@Gala,
Gala wrote:

The perceived quality of your argument makes you appear as if you think you are better than most people.


Wait! What?

Does this sentance even make sense?
mysteryman
 
  2  
Reply Wed 4 Nov, 2009 02:16 pm
@maporsche,
Quote:
I currently manage techincal projects related to telephony equipment for a financial services company. Basically, when you dial a 800 number to when you reach an customer service representitive, I am responsible for your experience in between those 2 points in time (the VRU, the hold music you hear, where you call gets routed, the data transfers, the call recording sytem, etc).


Then ITS YOUR FAULT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You are responsible for the crappy music I hear when I get put on ignore?
Dont let anyone find out where you live, they might make you listen to that stuff 24 hours a day...LOL
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Nov, 2009 02:19 pm
@mysteryman,
mysteryman wrote:

Then ITS YOUR FAULT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You are responsible for the crappy music I hear when I get put on ignore?
Dont let anyone find out where you live, they might make you listen to that stuff 24 hours a day...LOL


LOL.....don't blame me for the music; I couldn't write a song to save my life.

But yes, I would take your feedback and incorporate into future designs of this system. Very Happy
 

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