Stars and Bars; How Long, O Lord?

I have not considered the Civil War to be a part of the current situation, regardless of Bill's and a few others' efforts to make it happen. I am not a great Civil War buff, so left much of the burden of that argument for those who are. It is the history of its (that flag's) being coopted by racists and other thugs that makes it so objectionable. As a kid, my older brother loved the south and their attitudes in the pre and actual Civil War. He honored that flag as a symbol of the "glory" of the Confederacy. In high school, the kids called him Stonewall. He had some black enemies. I recall walking from school with him and a black kid. The whole way they traded racist insults. Then he grew up. He acquired enough experience in the world to realize the overall truth. He even welcomed a black man as a good friend. In other words, as an adult, he no longer embraced the attitudes built up out of childish ignorance. It is a shame others can't grow in that way.

1 Reply

@edgarblythe,

The damn flag was a battle flag used by the Army of Northern Virgina one of the greatest military forces in the history of the world.

And no red neck racist or KKK member can change that fact or for that matter neither can all the PC fools such as farmerman can change that fact.

And I will keep honoring the flag for that reason alone and it have nothing to do with hating our follow black citizens.

When you or famerman can show me a license granting you the right to define the only true meaning of symbols I would however enjoy looking at it.

2 Replies

@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

The damn flag was a battle flag used by the Army of Northern Virgina one of the greatest military forces in the history of the world.

And no red neck racist or KKK member can change that fact or for that matter neither can all the PC fools such as farmerman can change that fact.

And I will keep honoring the flag for that reason alone and it have nothing to do with hating our follow black citizens.

When you or famerman can show me a license granting you the right to define the only true meaning of symbols I would however enjoy looking at it.

I repeat: The Civil War has nothing to do with it. Just as the swastika has nothing to do with the earlier symbol that looks like it. If enough people conspire to make an evil symbol of the Steelers football organization logo, it could come to be ostracised in the same way.

1 Reply

If some people think that the displayer of a Confederate flag has racist beliefs, then are all non Confederate flag displayers not racist? Naturally not.

And what consitutes racism in today's America where some neighborhoods, and suburban developments do not have Black residents, or very few? Or, how about the schools that have a paucity of Black students. Does this reflect racism, or a preference to live where neighbors share some common traits, be they religion, socio-economic level, education, or whatever. The bitter truth is that what might pass for racism on occasions might just be face-saving for the reality that there is a socio-economic/educational/cultural divide in this country that can often correlate with race.

And, thank you for ignoring my earlier post.

2 Replies

@Foofie,

Foofie wrote:

If some people think that the displayer of a Confederate flag has racist beliefs, then are all non Confederate flag displayers not racist? Naturally not.

And what consitutes racism in today's America where some neighborhoods, and suburban developments do not have Black residents, or very few? Or, how about the schools that have a paucity of Black students. Does this reflect racism, or a preference to live where neighbors share some common traits, be they religion, socio-economic level, education, or whatever. The bitter truth is that what might pass for racism on occasions might just be face-saving for the reality that there is a socio-economic/educational/cultural divide in this country that can often correlate with race.

And, thank you for ignoring my earlier post.

I am confining my argument to the flag in question. Diluting the topic by discussing everything one can imagine to create doubt for other topics and situations can only serve to turn the focus away from my original post. Sorry for the ignore. I had got in the habit of scrolling past most of your words, because they so often are not on topic.

0 Replies

@engineer,

Quote:

InfraBlue wrote:

Lee and his band of redneck crackers defended an indefensible cause. They are responsible for the waste of humanity that was the US Civil War.

I'm sure the British said the same thing about those rebellious colonials.

I'm sure they did. However, the indefensibility of the cause of lack of representation is arguable. The indefensibility of the cause of the expansion of slavery into the new territories that the US had arrogated, and its eventual abolition everywhere, isn't.

1 Reply

@BillRM,

Quote:

When you or famerman can show me a license granting you the right to define the only true meaning of symbols I would however enjoy looking at it.

HEE HEE, Its on the backside of the same license that you 've issued which allows you to totally deny the truth .

1 Reply

@farmerman,

HEE HEE, Its on the backside of the same license that you 've issued which allows you to totally deny the truth .
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Hmm so you also have a license to declare what is true or not true?

I was under the impression that only the Pope claim that right.

0 Replies

@edgarblythe,

The Civil War has nothing to do with it
----------------------------------------------------
So a battle flag used by the south during the civil war have nothing to do with that war?

Strange statement indeed!

1 Reply

@Foofie,

Quote:

And, thank you for ignoring my earlier post.

You're welcome. I try to do that as much as possible.

1 Reply

@InfraBlue,

Quote:

I'm sure they did. However, the indefensibility of the cause of lack of representation is arguable. The indefensibility of the cause of the expansion of slavery into the new territories that the US had arrogated, and its eventual abolition everywhere, isn't.

You would be likely singing a different tune had the Confederacy won the war. In any case slavery is alive and well all around the world. One need only visit the sweat shops and the brothels to find the modern day slaves.

0 Replies

@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

The Civil War has nothing to do with it
----------------------------------------------------
So a battle flag used by the south during the civil war have nothing to do with that war?

Strange statement indeed!

Don't make me make jokes about that thought.

0 Replies

You anti flag people can't see the forest for the trees. It is a very good thing that people who feel proud of the south proclaim what they believe. If you have a problem with the south, or with what you assume are their reasons for feeling proud of the south, this is your opportunity to have a conversation. Maybe if you can show them the errors of their ways you will persuade them to change their opinion. Likewise, they might change yours.

Truth telling about what we believe and how we feel is always a good thing. Driving feelings and beliefs underground is almost always foolish.

0 Replies

@Merry Andrew,

Merry Andrew wrote:

Quote:
And, thank you for ignoring my earlier post.

You're welcome. I try to do that as much as possible.

You are not alone. That reaction (ignoring) I believe can reflect one of the American social mores, as a way to deal with something that one will not change one's mind about. Many people do not like to discuss the merits of one's opinion. So, regardless of what makes you ignore my posts, that seems to be a coping mechanism, by many, for what one does not believe in.

I personally believe it correlates to the non-urban culture. You know; polite by ignoring.

0 Replies

No one has offered the thought that if any of the Confederate flag displayers are actually racist in thinking, then why "look a gift horse in the mouth"? Is it not better to get that warning of who is possibly a racist?

1 Reply

@Foofie,

It is my opinion that more racists are passive than aggressive. They would likely not display the flag or betray their feelings openly. So using the flag to that purpose would be an exercise in futility.

0 Replies

@edgarblythe,

Quote:

The other point: They do have the right to enjoy their porch, but here I also have the right to get annoyed. These cretins study our every move. If I prop open the door to carry in groceries, they line up to crane their necks to peer inside the house. If I come outside dressed nicely for a change, they call out to one another regarding the change. I come home after spending the night in Dallas, it is a major event to them. One frequent visitor in their home is the same young man I had jailed several years ago for attempted breaking and entering. He sometimes rides by with his friends and hollers at us, **** you." Through it all, I attempt to appear oblivious.

Well good luck with trying to appear oblivious, edgar. Sounds a downright scary situation to me! I couldn't stand to put up with this every day.

1 Reply

@msolga,

If the young ones were the only people there, it would be a short wait for them to move on. The old lady seems to be prepared to stay for the long haul. Looks like I'm screwed.

1 Reply

@edgarblythe,

You have my total sympathy, edgar. I find few things as utterly maddening (say nothing of extremely frightening at times) as irrational "politics" combined with aggression. A horrible combination, which makes me despair.

(In Oz, some aggressive young "patriots" (pretty much exclusively men) have taken to wrapping the country's flag around themselves as they go about their their aggressive (often overtly racist) business. Drunkenness seems to be part of the routine. Thing is, we have never exactly been a nation of "patriots" (which I think is a pretty healthy thing), but recently our flag has been used for this purpose. I never dreamed that I'd be furious about abuse of Australia's flag, but I find I am. How dare these worthless creeps use the cover of nationalism/patriotism as a cover for their completely anti-social behaviour!)

1 Reply

@msolga,

Looks like they are doing as many Americans do - Trying to claim the flag and love of country for exclusively their own. Anyone in the way is invited to "love it or leave it."

2 Replies

Stars and Bars; How Long, O Lord?

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know