Car/Bike accident - Who is at fault?

@Ottawa Sean,

In Ontario, cyclists must dismount for a crosswalk, unless they are on the road and following laws of traffic. Roller skaters, skateboarders and handicapped people don't typically travel as fast as cyclists.
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They travel as fast as I do on a sidewalk my friend as you can not travel all that fast on a sidewalk due to many factors including people who are walking on the sidewalk.

Second if you stop before crossing the intersection you are not moving all that fast as it take more then the width of an intersection to get up speed.

1 Reply

@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

If you can ride on the sidewalk

In Ontario, it is illegal for adults to ride bicycles on the sidewalk.

2 Replies

@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

In Ontario, cyclists must dismount for a crosswalk, unless they are on the road and following laws of traffic. Roller skaters, skateboarders and handicapped people don't typically travel as fast as cyclists.
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They travel as fast as I do on a sidewalk my friend as you can not travel all that fast on a sidewalk due to many factors including people who are walking on the sidewalk.

Second if you stop before crossing the intersection you are not moving all that fast as it take more then the width of an intersection to get up speed.

Maybe for you, Gramps. I'm a bolt of lightning on two wheels.

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@Ottawa Sean,

Ottawa Sean wrote:

someone in my position shouldn't be held responsible for not being "extra" cautious.

the key is that the "in your position" is in a car

it is the same thing when someone driving a car is in an accident with a transport truck - the differential in size has implications

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@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

It is here in CA. You can get ticketed for it.
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Well California is giving out IOU instead of paychecks so I guess they are looking for funds anywhere they can find them however in South Florida there is no fine for riding across an intersection and once more it would not made any sense to give out such fines.

Yes, it does. Bicycle riders who ride through crosswalks often do so at high speeds, unpredictably. This is based on my years of real-world bicycle commuting experienec.

Quote:

If you can ride on the sidewalk, why the hell would you not be able to ride across the intersection under a walk signal and do they give out fines for people on skateboards or roller skates?

You can't ride bicycles on sidewalks in CA - it's illegal, unless the road is so busy that it's a threat to your life to ride in it. Even then, I still think it's illegal but unenforced.

Quote:

For myself under those set of conditions I would just enter the roadway before I get to a intersection from the sideway and cross the intersection under road rules before once more going to the sidewalk.

Seem very silly to me assuming you know what you are talking about.

Do what I, and all other good cyclists do: don't ride on the sidewalk unless you absolutely have to. It is far more dangerous than riding in the street, unless the speed limit of the road is overly high; in which case, you should first look for another street.

Cyclopticchorn

1 Reply

@Ottawa Sean,

In Ontario, cyclists must dismount for a crosswalk, unless they are on the road and following laws of traffic. Roller skaters, skateboarders and handicapped people don't typically travel as fast as cyclists.
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All in all you should had look both way before crossing a mark walkway as it could had been a young child on roller skates instead of an adult on an old broken down bike.

There is nothing magic about a bike compare to roller skates or skates boards they all move faster then a walking person and in the situation you are giving I question the man on the old broken down bike on a sidewall was moving at even normal relax road touring speeds of 15 MPH. More then likely 10 to 11 MPH speed that compare to a roller skater speed.

The old cheap junk bikes are all so call mountain bikes with gearings and tires that would wear out Armstrong if he was trying to maintain speed.

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@BillRM,

Bikes are not allowed on sidewalks here. Main reason, it causes too many accidents, particularly from people backing out of driveways and at busy intersections.

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@Cycloptichorn,

Maybe for you, Gramps. I'm a bolt of lightning on two wheels.

Cycloptichorn
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Sorry my friend but I do not think that you would be chain lighting on the kind of junk they sell at Wal-Mart for a hundred or so dollars.

I ride a touring bike design for carrying a large amount of weight for hundred of miles a day and yet I could pass anyone riding an old beat up junk bike without a problem.

1 Reply

@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

Maybe for you, Gramps. I'm a bolt of lightning on two wheels.

Cycloptichorn
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Sorry my friend but I do not think that you would be chain lighting on the kind of junk they sell at Wal-Mart for a hundred or so dollars.

I ride a touring bike design for carrying a large amount of weight for hundred of miles a day and yet I could pass anyone riding an old beat up junk bike without a problem.

Well, you're right that I have an awesome rig. But the laws of the road have to cover both the Porsche and the Pinto, if you get my drift.

Cycloptichorn

2 Replies

@Cycloptichorn,

My friend it is far more dangerous in some areas to ride on sidewalks then on roadways however it is the reverse in other situations.

I live in the Miami area where the death rate from cars hitting cyclists is one of the highest in the country.

There are roadways such as SW 88 street that I would love to see you ride on. It would be short ride in my opinion.

That where judgment come in as no set rule can apply such as you seem so willing to imposed.

0 Replies

@Cycloptichorn,

Well, you're right that I have an awesome rig. But the laws of the road have to cover both the Porsche and the Pinto, if you get my drift.
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My bike is a trek 510 a good solid touring bike that can haul hundred of pounds of gear to a camping site on the site of a mountain or a hundred pounds bags of cat food/litter home from Pet Smart for that matter.

Now however the question is would a old junk bike be moving all that fast in an intersection and my reply is hell no.

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@Cycloptichorn,

Well, you're right that I have an awesome rig. But the laws of the road have to cover both the Porsche and the Pinto, if you get my drift.

Cycloptichorn
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Second my friend the people with awesome rigs in fact never seem to used the sidewalk however they seem to take delight in taking over intersections with long chains of bikes that do not stop when the traffic light turn red.

Let me see what is the name of the group that take delight in stopping traffic with mass rides? Criticality Mass or some such is it not?

That cheerful group of hoodlums had cause more bad PR for cyclists then any other and did they not start in good old California?

2 Replies

@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

Well, you're right that I have an awesome rig. But the laws of the road have to cover both the Porsche and the Pinto, if you get my drift.

Cycloptichorn
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Second my friend the people with awesome rigs in fact never seem to used the sidewalk however they seem to take delight in taking over intersections with long chains of bikes that do not stop when the traffic light turn red.

Let me see what is the name of the group that take delight in stopping traffic with mass rides? Criticality Mass or some such is it not?

That cheerful group of hoodlums had cause more bad PR for cyclists then any other and did they not start in good old California?

Critical Mass; and yeah, I'm sure people hate it when we own their asses the same way we hate dealing with cars all the time. A little tit for tat.

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@BillRM,

Critical Mass, and I would hate to ride on the streets of a town after a Critical Mass ride.

When I approach an intersection, I definately take the lane, unless there's a bike lane. If I'm in the lane, they are going to see me. If I'm in the "gutter lane", they usually won't, and if they don't see me before making a right turn, it can definately get interesting. I'll agree with everyone that riding on the sidewalk is insanely dangerous, and the "car door lane" isn't any better.

Here (Farmington and Albuquerque) riding the sidewalks is legal, except in business districts, and along streets with marked bike lanes. We do have the option of becoming a pedestrian by the simple act of dismounting. If we chooose not to, we are treated exactly the same as any other vehicle on the road.

In the OP's question, I'm inclined to hold the cyclist at fault, though that is not the same as saying legally at fault.

You guys are seriously underestimating inline skates, though. They can get 18 or 20 miles an hour, and get up to speed quicker than you would ever believe - till the hit a pebble. Then they can face plant faster than you would ever believe.

1 Reply

@ehBeth,

ehBeth wrote:

In Ontario, it is illegal for adults to ride bicycles on the sidewalk.

It drives me nuts when i see a family group riding on the sidewalk, because the parents are tacitly teaching their children that it is OK. And i've seen family groups flagrantly violate traffic regulation, too. Just the other night, as i took the little doggies out for a sashay, there was a family group riding north on our street--which is one way south. Way to go, Mom and Dad.

1 Reply

@Setanta,

Yeah. And our town passed a helmet law for anyone under 18. Okay, but what good is a helmet on a six year old when it's on crooked and halfway falling of the back of the head. Might as well require shower caps.

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@ehBeth,

In Ontario, it is illegal for adults to ride bicycles on the sidewalk
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I wonder how many people die every year because of that rule.

Unless you have mark bike paths by all high speed heavy traffic roads I am fairly sure it is a fair number.

1 Reply

@Cycloptichorn,

Critical Mass; and yeah, I'm sure people hate it when we own their asses the same way we hate dealing with cars all the time. A little tit for tat.

Cycloptichorn
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Why does that not surprise me that you are a supporter of such fools.

Annoying people surrounded by a few tons of metal for no good reason and turning them into haters of all cyclists is about as dumb as dumb can be.

1 Reply

@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

In Ontario, it is illegal for adults to ride bicycles on the sidewalk
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I wonder how many people die every year because of that rule.

It is more dangerous to ride on the sidewalk than it is the road, in most city situations. Much more so.

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

Critical Mass; and yeah, I'm sure people hate it when we own their asses the same way we hate dealing with cars all the time. A little tit for tat.

Cycloptichorn
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Why does that not surprise me that you are a supporter of such fools.

Annoying people surrounded by a few tons of metal for no good reason and turning them into haters of all cyclists is about as dumb as dumb can be.

Why, because people are suddenly going to start running cyclists over? Because they will lose respect for us? I find both these propositions to be laughable, as

A) Critical Masses have been going on a long time and there has been no marked increase in bicycle deaths b/c of them, and

B) Drivers already have zero respect for anyone who isn't in a car as it is.

I establish my space on the road when I ride, the same way a car does. Every time. The worst thing you can do is ride on the sidewalk or hug the right side of the road and be all timid about it.

The truth is that cyclists have as much right - if not more - to use the streets as any car, and it's damn well time that our culture realizes this. So yeah, I ride in critical mass, and enjoy it, and have done so for years.

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

Car/Bike accident - Who is at fault?

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