What qualifies a man to talk about an issue like feminism?

@Diest TKO,

What makes "a man able to speak accurately and articulately on the topic"?

What "makes" anybody able to speak accurately and articulately on any topic.

No one can prove said man has been affected by/learned from/read about etc. said topic in a way congruent with the listener's expectations!

There is no way to conclusively demonstrate said man is not simply convincingly regurgitating.

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This silliness of stating that men and women can not have an opinion or are not qualities because an issue tend to effect one sex and not the other is beyond silly as anything that effect the women in our lives effect us as men. No issue can be selected out as effecting only one sex.

We are sons, brothers, and husbands and friends to the women in our lives and anything that effect them effect all of us males so why in the hell should we not have opinions on feminism or like issues?

The woman I happen to sleep with who is my best friend/wife is closer then any other male in the world to me and her welfare is far dearer to me then my own.

We are surrounded by women all our lives and to state we are not qualifies to have an opinion on such issues is the same as stating that we can not have an opinion of the air we breathe because we are not birds.

Someone comment about rape as an example well if my wife happen to be raped I am going to be effected almost as must as she is as we are a couple who share our lives together and as a result anything that harm her harm me and anything that harm me harm her.

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@Chumly,

Quote:

There is no way to conclusively demonstrate said man is not simply convincingly regurgitating.

My lengthy post yesterday was based on the facts.

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Grumble...

Okay, this is the kind of talk that I'm looking to avoid. It's not helpful. The question is valid.

There are REAL trends between men and women. There are REAL differences between men and women in the things we experience, the ways we socialize. These things are not insignificant.

There is much truth in the idea that we all interact and that we all have opinions, and why not share them, but we know there is more to it than simply sharing an opinion.

For instance...

Lots of people have opinions on Nuclear Technology. We can all write down what we feel about it. Does A2K want to pretend that some people with degrees in Nuclear engineering, or work in the energy industry might just be able to offer something more than just opinion. That given the choice to read the thoughts of an Environmental Engineer vice that of a hippie in a shed, we know which source might be better qualified to offer insight?

This is not about the right to have an opinion. Having an opinion is great, but a qualification it is not. The sports guy on the 9 o'clock news doesn't give the weather report for a reason.

I can only speak from my experiences, and I think that those experiences are what got me the invite to write in the first place, but exploring the topic in general, and what types of experiences better qualify ("equip" if you are hung up on terminology...) men to empathize and better express/articulate ideas on feminism.

I expect a more thorough examination of a topic here on A2K. Such a quick dismissal is substandard here.

To refocus: An example based off something from ebrownp.

I can't go get pregnant and birth a baby from the womb I don't have. I can however have the experience of a loved one (mother/sister/wife/etc) go through pregnancy and observing their mood/identity/attitude before/during/after. This is a specific experience that would give some real ground to talk about not just specifically the act of birth, but birth as a topic of feminism.

Oppositely, would you want to read an opinion piece on birth control options/availability from someone who doesn't know anything about it? The person who doesn't know anything, certainly has the right to an opinion, but they really aren't qualified. Do we want to pretend otherwise?

It's nice to be invited to write, I'm trying to take it seriously.

T
K
O

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@Diest TKO,

You are unqualified to speak about the experience of being pregnant.

You are not unqualified to speak about issues that might affect pregnant women.

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Feminism is a human issue. As a human you are qualified to talk about it.

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@Diest TKO,

Quote:

I'm trying to take it seriously.

You are not even taking it gently TK. You are having yourself on. You want to be Mr Nice Guy and discuss feminism. That makes you a feminist in my book. There's nothing nice about the matter.

Why have you ignored my post? I'll admit it was nowhere near a "thorough examination" but it was a start. You haven't even got started at all.

You're a bullshitter. And you will talk us into eunuch mode like the good little boy you are.

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@Diest TKO,

Diest, have a look at "genetic fallacies" sometime. It's related to what you are asking about.

In short, a valid argument about feminism is not changed based on who is saying it. If the lack of a specific experience means your arguments will be somehow deficient then it can be shown on the basis of the arguments themselves and not who makes them.

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@Robert Gentel,

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@Robert Gentel,

Robert Gentel wrote:

Diest, have a look at "genetic fallacies" sometime. It's related to what you are asking about.

In short, a valid argument about feminism is not changed based on who is saying it. If the lack of a specific experience means your arguments will be somehow deficient then it can be shown on the basis of the arguments themselves and not who makes them.

Yes, and we've been round about this already. I'm saying that the lack of certain experiences will be directly because of gender. Since a man can't have specific kinds of experiences, what kinds of experiences that a man can have will help grant them proficiency and then it can be shown on the basis of the arguments. The who is NOT trivial, when certain experiences are exclusive to women.

An example is that a both men and women can loose their virginity. I can imagine that a certain amount of my experience will help me understand a woman's (general) experience (every person's experience is going to differ naturally), but I'm trying to think outside of the box here.

Perhaps the mentality, social pressure, fears, and stigmas that a woman might feel about loosing her virginity can be related to some other sort of experience a man can have. An experience perhaps that has nothing to do with sex.

Maybe Jane Random's fear of being labeled a "whore" can be related to John Nonspecific's fear of being labeled a "pussy." A man might not be able to identify with the fear of being labeled a whore, but might be able to understand the real social pressure to be tough. That social pressure to be tough while having nothing to do with sexuality, could be argued to be a relate-able experience when trying to understand and communicate how a person might behave based on a social stigma.

This is the kinds of things I'm looking for A2K input on. Relate-able experiences that men can have that may help empathize and ultimately help men and women communicate these kinds of ideas.

Saying that I've got a mom, so I understand women's issues seems grossly ignorant. I want more than that.

I mean future entries of mine should include some sort of background on my own experiences on the specific topics I choose to write about should it not?

T
K
O

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@Green Witch,

Green Witch wrote:

Feminism is a human issue. As a human you are qualified to talk about it.

I guess my hang up here is that the goal for me is not to just talk about it, but to offer something a little more substantial.

Spendi can obviously talk about feminism. He's a human. He lives in a free society.

Is he a good source to talk to about it? What kinds of experiences make him good at it or ultra terrible at it?

I just don't buy the idea that we're all equipped the same to talk on all subjects. Doesn't mean I'm ill equipped, or can't talk about these things. I suspect however, it means that I play different and have to fill in some experience gaps with facsimiles.

T
K
O

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@Diest TKO,

Diest TKO wrote:

Yes, and we've been round about this already. I'm saying that the lack of certain experiences will be directly because of gender.

I haven't read anything other than the first post and this last page. Sorry if I'm not up to speed on where the thread has been.

Quote:

An example is that a both men and women can loose their virginity. I can imagine that a certain amount of my experience will help me understand a woman's (general) experience (every person's experience is going to differ naturally), but I'm trying to think outside of the box here.

Perhaps the mentality, social pressure, fears, and stigmas that a woman might feel about loosing her virginity can be related to some other sort of experience a man can have. An experience perhaps that has nothing to do with sex.

Maybe Jane Random's fear of being labeled a "whore" can be related to John Nonspecific's fear of being labeled a "pussy." A man might not be able to identify with the fear of being labeled a whore, but might be able to understand the real social pressure to be tough. That social pressure to be tough while having nothing to do with sexuality, could be argued to be a relate-able experience when trying to understand and communicate how a person might behave based on a social stigma.

This is the kinds of things I'm looking for A2K input on. Relate-able experiences that men can have that may help empathize and ultimately help men and women communicate these kinds of ideas.

Saying that I've got a mom, so I understand women's issues seems grossly ignorant. I want more than that.

I should have read the thread! I came here under the impression you wanted to know "what qualifies a man to talk about an issue like feminism" which certainly didn't lead me to believe this is the kind of thing you meant.

Quote:

I mean future entries of mine should include some sort of background on my own experiences on the specific topics I choose to write about should it not?

I think that if the dilemma is just that you are going to be a guy writing on a feminist blog that you would do fine no matter how to approach it. But I have no idea what they are expecting of you and what you describe sounds pretty intimate.

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@Diest TKO,

Men's reality is as valid as women's reality. If we accept that the goal of feminism is the achievement of strong and well functioning women then men have as much to say about what works and what does not work as women do. We will not have the same thing to say exactly because men and women are wired differently, which is fine.

The reverse is true as well, women have the right (and duty) to make sure that their men know what works for them as the women see it. Women tend not to be shy about taking inventory of their men, and should fully understand why men return the favor.

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@hawkeye10,

Quote:

Men's reality is as valid as women's reality.

But the reality in the case of feminism has been "created" (conditioned) by the process I outlined very superficially in my earlier post. It is not the reality of writers like Ludovici and Schopenauer and many others. The ordinary woman is not represented in Media.

Feminists see Dylan as a male chauvinist.

Quote:

She was workin' in a topless bar,
When I stopped in for beer.
I just kept lookin' at the side of her face
In the spotlight, so clear.
An' later on when the crowd thinned out
An' I was gettin' ready to leave,
She was standin' there, right beside my chair,
She said "what's that up your sleeve?"
I said "It's nuthin' Babe and that's for sure"
An' she leaned down into my face
I could feel the heat and the pulse of her
As she bent down to tie the laces of my shoe.
Tangled up in blue.

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@Diest TKO,

Quote:

An example is that a both men and women can loose their virginity. I can imagine that a certain amount of my experience will help me understand a woman's (general) experience (every person's experience is going to differ naturally), but I'm trying to think outside of the box here.

Perhaps the mentality, social pressure, fears, and stigmas that a woman might feel about loosing her virginity can be related to some other sort of experience a man can have. An experience perhaps that has nothing to do with sex.

Maybe Jane Random's fear of being labeled a "whore" can be related to John Nonspecific's fear of being labeled a "pussy." A man might not be able to identify with the fear of being labeled a whore, but might be able to understand the real social pressure to be tough. That social pressure to be tough while having nothing to do with sexuality, could be argued to be a relate-able experience when trying to understand and communicate how a person might behave based on a social stigma.

Now, in your attempts at tip-toeing into the topic you've hit upon the biggest cliche of all time; a female's viginity. Please, get over it.

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@Gala,

Are you really claiming that social pressure has nothing to do with sexuality? (Because that is a dubious claim indeed).

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@Gala,

Get over what, exactly? What am I hung up on?

T
K
O

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@Diest TKO,

I'm interested in understanding why you chose the phrase “Male Feminism,” as the title for your blog entry. Do you think that says anything about your own stereotypes? If so, what?

Quote:

In the shallowest of waters male feminism must exist where there are no females present at all. Men socializing with other men or while by themselves have are faces with an abundance of women's issues.

Sorry, TKO, I don't know what this means.

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@Diest TKO,

Diest TKO wrote:

Since I've agreed to do a piece, I wondered what topics I should write about.

I think you can write about your experience of any topic that interests you. At the same time, I don't think a man can write about a woman's experience of being a woman. He can write about the effects on him of her experience, but their experiences aren't the same.

In the same way, I don't think a woman who is now in her 50's or 60's is qualified to write about the experiences of a teenager today. I don't think we've had equivalent life experiences.

I think we can all write about our own experiences as humans, but beyond that it gets tricky (unless you're getting into statistics).

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@Joeblow,

I think there was a typo/grammar goof in it, and he means something more like:

Quote:

In the shallowest of waters male feminism must exist where there are no females present at all. Men socializing with other men or while by themselves are faced with an abundance of women's issues.

What I take THAT to mean is that men aren't only feminists in how they deal with women... men can (and there's an implication of "should") be feminist in how they deal with other men, too. Like censuring disrespectful behavior they see in other men instead of condoning it, that sort of thing.

I gotta say my eyes glazed over a bit while reading the original, though, Diest. I'll try again. I think you can take one or two main points and try to tighten 'em up a bit.

1 Reply

What qualifies a man to talk about an issue like feminism?

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