11
   

Women in frontline combat roles.

 
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Sep, 2009 05:35 am
@Setanta,
Incredible. A Russian women's battalion in 1917!
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Sep, 2009 05:56 am
@msolga,
I couldn't find what i considered good corroborative evidence, but many of the Russian sites i visited stated that many women served in Russian regiments, beginning in 1914 with the start of the war. It is claimed that regimental commanders simply looked the other way, not officially recognizing the women in their units. The comments, however, came from Russian discussion boards such as this one, and since i don't know their sources, i can't in good faith report them as being true.

One regiment, the 6th Ural Cossack Regiment, was said to have had one sixth of their "manpower" in women. The commander of the unit, Colonel Koudasheva, was wounded or killed (i couldn't discover what actually happened to him), after which time, Colonel Alexandra Koudasheva, his wife, took command of the regiment. I even found a photo alleged to be of Alexandra Koudasheva, in uniform, but i've not been able to find it today.

Once again, the basis for these claims is not clear to me, so i can't say to a certainty that they are true.

For your own personal interest, the sniper Pavlichenko and the fighter ace Litvyak were both Ukrainian women.
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Sep, 2009 06:02 am
@Setanta,
Quote:
For your own personal interest, the sniper Pavlichenko and the fighter ace Litvyak were both Ukrainian women.


Interesting, Setanta!
0 Replies
 
talk72000
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Sep, 2009 08:11 pm
@Setanta,
I wouldn't be surprised as Russia always had had an attitude of sacrificing infantry to wars. The Bolshevik Revolution was partly fed by the huge numbers of soldiers killed in the battles with Ludendorf and Hindenburg during WWII.

In the Nazi invasion the Germans rather than taking prisoners knowing they couldn't shelter and feed them all resorted to circling Russian armies and slaughtering them. So there was probably a shortage of men soldiers to fill the ranks of the Russian arm forces.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Sep, 2009 09:46 pm
@talk72000,
Your remarks are completely without foundation. The Germans did not encircle Russian armies and slaughter them. The Bolshevik revolution succeeded the Russian revolution by eight months. The Russian revolution of March, 1917, was sparked by the high cost of bread. Women in the factories around Petrograd decided on their own to protest in the streets. The Bolshevik leadership in the factories tried to tell them they couldn't do it. The women ignored them, and marched down the Nevsky Prospekt. The Pharaohs, which is what the people called the Tsarist secret police, called up the Cossacks to disperse the demonstrators, but the women walked up to them and asked them if they were really going to charge them. The Cossacks did nothing, the women marched past them, some even stooping under the horses bellies and marching on up the Nevsky, and the Pharaohs, seeing the writing on the wall, got out of Dodge. The Bolshevik revolution did not take place until November, 1917, when Kerensky's provisional government bowed to the pressure of the Allies, and attempted to restart the war against Germany.

Leon Trotsky took charge of the Red Army and fougth the White Russians, and then lead the invasion of Poland. Trotsky first elucidated the concept that "the proletariat are not cannon fodder," and the Red Army always provided the best equipment it could to Russian soldiers. The Russians provided sub-machine guns to their troops in as large numbers as they could, and the weapons were good enough that veteran German soldiers would pick them up on the battlefield to use themselves when they could find enough ammunition. Despite whatever anti-communist propaganda you might have read, the Bolsheviks always did their damnedest to provide the best equipment to their army that they could afford. Most women in the Soviet armies were there to take over jobs in the rear areas which would allow men to go to the front. But many of them wanted to fight, and the Soviets decided to allow them the opportunity. It proved to be a good idea for the Soviet Union.
talk72000
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Sep, 2009 10:27 pm
@Setanta,
Many military people joined the revolution as a result of the Pyrrhic Russian victory of the Germans.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Barbarossa

Quote:
It took four days for the Germans to encircle and destroy the Soviet armour who lacked fuel, ammunition and coordination. By the end of the first week the Soviet Mechanized Corps had lost 90 percent of its strength.
Wikipedia, Operation Barbarossa.

Quote:
On 27 June 2 and 3 Panzer Groups met up at Minsk, advancing 200 miles (300 km) into Soviet territory and a third of the way to Moscow. In the vast pocket between Minsk and the Polish border, the remnants of 32 Soviet Rifle, eight tank, and motorized, cavalry and artillery divisions were encircled.


Quote:
Beginning in March 1941, Goering's Green Folder laid out details of the Soviet Union's proposed economic disposal after the invasion. The entire urban population of the invaded land was to be starved to death, thus creating an agricultural surplus to feed Germany and allowing the urban population's replacement by a German upper class. During the Nuremberg Trials in 1946, Sir Hartley Shawcross said in March 1941, as well as administrative divisions previously created, the following divisions in the Russian East were planned:

0 Replies
 
talk72000
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Sep, 2009 11:18 pm
@Setanta,
I did not mean that soldiers specifically joined the Bolshevik Revolution that day but they sympathized and helped along with the movement as they were often the victims of the Tzarist policies i.e. of callousness regarding lives lost in battles.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Sep, 2009 03:59 am
Can you show me the evidence that the Germans slaughtered the troops in the pockets they encircled? That is the burden of proof you took on with your remark. Note that my criticism reads: "The Germans did not encircle Russian armies and slaughter them." (emphasis added). Your comment suggested that women were used in combat roles by the Soviets because the Germans had slaughtered so many men, and i doubt that you can substantiate that claim. The Germans maintained large prisoner of war camps for Soviets, and even recruited them for "static defense" regiments. Two of the regiments which the Americans encountered behind the beaches in the Normandy invasion were static defense units comprised of Soviet prisoners of war who had volunteered for that service to get out of the POW camps.

Actually, the Tsartist policies fed Bolshevism into the army. The Bolsheviks were organized in cells, which meant if you discovered the members of one cell, it did not compromise the members of another cell--a piece of genius on the part of Lenin which has been much imitated since then. The Pharaohs would identify this or that labor agitator as a Bolshevik, and to get him out of the factories, they would ship him off to the front, where, of course, he would begin propagandizing the troops among whom he found himself. In that manner, unwittingly, and rather stupidly, the Tsarists themselves spread Bolshevism among the troops at the front.

It seemed, to me, though, that you didn't understand that the revolution came in two parts. The Russians used the Julian calendar at that time, so according to their view, there was a Russian revolution in February (March in the west) and the Bolshevik revolution in October (November in the west). The Bolshevik revolution was only possible because, first, the women in the factories had sparked the Russian revolution, and second because the Germans made a point of sending Lenin off to Finland so that he could be introduced into Russia. I just wanted to make it clear that initially, there was a Russian revolution which didn't involve the Bolsheviks, and which in fact the Bolsheviks had initially attempted to prevent, because it hadn't been on their agenda.

It is also ironic, in light of the discussion in this thread, that the Russian revolution of February (March) 1917 was instigated by the women working the Petrograd munitions factories.
talk72000
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Sep, 2009 09:45 pm
@Setanta,
It was Hitler's aim to destroy the Soviet armies and not take too many prisoners. They killed as many as they could in the encirclement. Stalin helped in that strategy as he ordered the Russian generals to fight to the last man so there was no thought of surrender and this aided Hitler in his drive. I may have mis-stated they they slaughtered them i.e. killing unarmed men which they did not do but the idea was to kill as many in battle.

http://www.fixstupid.com/Burnt%20Offerings/CHAPT8.htm

Quote:
October 7
Vyazma is completely surrounded as 3rd and 4th Panzer Armies link up. Trapped inside this pocket are well over half a million men in four distinct armies. In this one encirclement, the Russians again face the loss of several armies. By now, the Red Army may have lost some three million men (casualties and prisoners). German casualties of more than half a million men seem light by comparison. The fruitless battles fought by these four Soviet armies, staggering though their loss will be, prevents a direct armored thrust on Moscow, and stalls the German assault long enough for the Soviets to pull additional units out of the east, and throw even more troops in front of the capital.


The shortage of men encouraged women to defend Moscow

Quote:
October 12
North of the capital, Kalinin falls to the Germans, who begin the envelopment of Moscow. Several hundred thousand Muscovites are turned out for employment as laborers on the city's defenses. Most of these are women, since the men have long since been absorbed into the Army. They dig anti-tank ditches, and erect barriers wherever possible as they prepare for the anticipated house to house fighting.


The casualties in WWII were the direct result of the Revolution

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/RUSmarchR.htm

Quote:
In September 1915, Nicholas II assumed supreme command of the Russian Army fighting on the Eastern Front. This linked him to the country's military failures and during 1917 there was a strong decline support for his government.

The country's incompetent and corrupt system could not supply the necessary equipment to enable the Russian Army to fight a modern war. By 1917 over 1,300,000 men had been killed in battle, 4,200,000 wounded and 2,417,000 had been captured by the enemy.

In January 1917, General Krimov, returned from the Eastern Front and sought a meeting with Michael Rodzianko, President of the Duma. Krimov told Rodzianko that the officers and men no longer had faith in Nicholas II and the army was willing to support the Duma if it took control of the government of Russia. Rodzianko was unwilling to take action but he did telegraph the Tsar warning that Russia was approaching breaking point. He also criticised the impact that his wife Alexandra Fyodorovna was having on the situation and told him that "you must find a way to remove the Empress from politics".

The First World War had a disastrous impact on the Russian econimy. Food was in short supply and this led to rising prices. By January 1917 the price of commodities in Petrograd had increased six-fold. In an attempt to increase their wages, industrial workers went on strike and in Petrograd people took to the street demanding food. On 11th February, 1917, a large crowd marched through the streets of Petrograd breaking shop windows and shouting anti-war slogans.

The situation deteoriated on 22nd February when the owners of the Putilov Iron Works locked out its workforce after they demanded higher wages. Led by Bolshevik agitators, the 20,000 workers took to the streets. The army was ordered to disperse the demonstrations but they were unwilling to do this and in some cases the soldiers joined the protestors in demanding an end to the war.

Other workers joined the demonstrations and by 27th February an estimated 200,000 workers were on strike. Nicholas II, who was at Army Headquarters in Mogilev, ordered the commander of the Petrograd garrison to suppress "all the disorders on the streets of the capital". The following day troops fired on demonstrators in different parts of the city. Others refused to obey the order and the Pavlovsk regiment mutinied. Others regiments followed and soldiers joined the striking workers in the streets.

On 26th February Nicholas II ordered the Duma to close down. Members refused and they continued to meet and discuss what they should do. Michael Rodzianko, President of the Duma, sent a telegram to the Tsar suggesting that he appoint a new government led by someone who had the confidence of the people. When the Tsar did not reply, the Duma nominated a Provisional Government headed by Prince George Lvov.

The High Command of the Russian Army now feared a violent revolution and on 28th February suggested that Nicholas II should abdicate in favour of a more popular member of the royal family. Attempts were now made to persuade Grand Duke Michael Alexandrovich to accept the throne. He refused and on the 1st March, 1917, the Tsar abdicated leaving the Provisional Government in control of the country.

0 Replies
 
talk72000
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Sep, 2009 10:03 pm
@Setanta,
The strategy of encirclement in battle suggests not only of victory but annihilation.

http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics/Battle_of_Kiev_%281941%29


Quote:
Nearly the entire Southwestern Front of the Red Army
Red Army

The Red Army was the armed force first organized by the Bolsheviks during the Russian Civil War in 1918 and, in 1922, became the army of the Soviet Union....
was encircled with the Germans claiming 665,000 captured. However, the Kiev encirclement was not complete, and small groups of Red Army troops managed to escape the cauldron days after the German pincers met east of the city, including head quarters of Marshall Semyon Budyonny
Semyon Budyonny

Semyon Mikhailovich Budyonny was a Soviet Union military commander and an ally of Soviet leader Joseph Stalin....
, Marshall Semyon Timoshenko
Semyon Timoshenko

Semyon Konstantinovich Timoshenko was a Soviet Union military commander and senior professional officer of the Red Army at the beginning of the Nazi Germany invasion of the Soviet Union in 1941....
and Commissar
Political commissar

A political commissar, or politruk, is an officer appointed by a government to oversee a unit of the military. They are used by the government to ensure that previously appointed officers and troops are loyal to the new regime....
Nikita Khrushchev
Nikita Khrushchev

Nikita Sergeyevich Khrushchev served as General Secretary of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union from 1953 to 1964, following the death of Joseph Stalin, and Premier of the Soviet Union from 1958 to 1964....
. Nevertheless, the Kiev disaster was an unprecedented defeat for the Red Army, exceeding even the Minsk tragedy of June-July 1941. On 1 September the Southwestern Front numbered 752-760,000 troops (850,000 including reserves and rear service organs), 3,923 guns & mortars, 114 tanks and 167 combat aircraft.

The encirclement trapped 452,700 troops, 2,642 guns & mortars and 64 tanks, of which scarcely 15,000 escaped from the encirclement by 2 October. Overall, the Southwestern Front suffered 700,544 casualties, including 616,304 killed, captured, or missing during the month-long Battle for Kiev. As a result, four Soviet field armies (5th, 37th, 26th
26th Army (Soviet Union)

The 26th Army was a field army of the Soviet Union's Red Army, active from 1941....
, & 21st) consisting of 43 divisions virtually ceased to exist. The 40th Army
40th Army (Soviet Union)

The 40th Army of the Soviet Union's Red Army was a Field army-level command active from 1941 to 1945 and then again from 1979 to circa 1990.It was first formed, after Operation Barbarossa, the German invasion of the Soviet Union, had commenced, from elements of the 26th and 37th Armies under the command of Major General K.P....
was badly affected as well. Like the Western Front before it, the Southwestern Front had to be recreated almost from scratch.

Prelude
After the quick initial success of the Wehrmacht, especially in the Northern and Central sector of the Eastern front
Eastern Front (World War II)

The Eastern Front of World War II was a Theatre between the German Reich and the Soviet Union which encompassed Central Europe and eastern Europe from 22 June 1941 to 9 May 1945....
, a huge bulge in the south remained, where a substantial Soviet force, consisting of nearly the entire Southwestern Front was located. In the Battle of Uman
Battle of Uman

The "Battle of Uman" was an English name given to the German encirclement of the 6th Army and 12th Army Soviet armies south of the city of Uman during the initial offensive operations of the Army Group South commanded by Field Marshal Gerd von Rundstedt as part of Operation Barbarossa on the Eastern Front of World War II....
a significant victory over the Soviet forces was achieved, but the bulk of forces under Semyon Budyonny's command were still concentrated in and around Kiev
Kiev

Kiev, also known as Kyiv , is the Capital and the largest city of Ukraine, located in the north central part of the country on the Dnieper River....
. While lacking mobility and armour, due to the majority of his armoured forces lost at the Battle of Uman
Battle of Uman

The "Battle of Uman" was an English name given to the German encirclement of the 6th Army and 12th Army Soviet armies south of the city of Uman during the initial offensive operations of the Army Group South commanded by Field Marshal Gerd von Rundstedt as part of Operation Barbarossa on the Eastern Front of World War II....
, they nonetheless posed a significant threat to the German advance and were the largest single concentration of Soviet troops on the Eastern Front at that time.

At the end of August, the German High Command (Oberkommando des Heeres, or OKH) had the option of either continuing the advance on Moscow, or destroying the Soviet forces in the south. Because the German Army Group South
Army Group South

Army Group South was the name of a number of Nazi Germany Army group during World War II....
(Heeresgruppe Süd) lacked sufficient strength to encircle and destroy the forces, a significant contribution from Army Group Center (Heeresgruppe Mitte) was needed to accomplish the task. After a dispute within the German High Command (see Lötzen decision
Lötzen decision

At the middle of July 1941, the Nazi German High Command OKH had the option of either continuing the advance on Moscow, or destroying the Soviet forces in the south....
) the bulk of Panzergruppe 2 and the 2nd Army were detached from Army Group Center and sent due south to encircle the Soviet army and meet the advancing Army Group South east of Kiev.

The Battle
The Panzer armies progressed rapidly to conclude the encirclement, a move that caught Budyonny by surprise. He was therefore relieved by Stalin
Joseph Stalin

Joseph Stalin was the General Secretary of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union's Central Committee of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union from 1922 until his death in 1953....
's order of September 13. No successor was named, leaving the troops to their individual corps and division commanders. The encirclement of Soviet forces in Kiev was achieved on September the 16th when Kleist's 1st Panzer Army and Guderian's 24th Corps met at Lokhvitsa, 120 miles behind Kiev.

After that, the fate of the encircled armies was sealed. For the Soviets, a disaster of staggering dimensions now unfolded. With no mobile forces or supreme commander left, there was no possibility to break out from the encirclement. The German 17th Army
17th Army (Germany)

The Nazi Germany Seventeenth Army was a World War II field army....
and 6th Army of Army Group South, as well as the 2nd Army of Army Group Center subsequently reduced the pocket, aided by the two Panzer armies. The encircled Soviet armies at Kiev did not give up easily. A savage battle in which the Soviets were bombarded by artillery, tanks and aircraft had to be fought before the pocket was reduced. By September 19, Kiev had fallen, but the encirclement battle continued. In the end, after 10 days of heavy fighting the last remnants of troops east of Kiev surrendered on September 26. The Germans claimed 600,000 Red Army soldiers captured, although these claims have included a large number of civilians suspected of evading capture. Hitler called it the greatest battle in history.

After the Battle
After Kiev the Red Army had no more reserves. To defend Moscow, the Red Army could field 800,000 men in 83 divisions but no more than 25 of those divisions were fully equipped and staffed, and there was a desperate shortage of tanks, motor vehicles and aircraft. On the German side, the losses exhausted the troops and had worn out much of the equipment. Although there were 2.0 million men in 70 divisions, only 15% of the divisions were motorised, and had been depleted by the operations, despite being the highest proportion of motorised to infantry ratio in any German operation in the war to date. Operation Typhoon, the offensive towards Moscow would begin on October 2 1941.

With the large victory at Kiev, and the last significant resistance in the Southern theater removed, Army Group South could continue its advance to the strategically significant the Donets Basin
Donets Basin

Donets Basin, also known as Donbas or Donbass , is a historical, economic and cultural region located on the territory of present-day Ukraine....
. A complete breakthrough was achieved in the southern sector of the front.

However, the need to complete the Kiev operation delayed the advance on Moscow for 4 weeks, a factor that some argue eventually proved detrimental in the subsequent Battle of Moscow
Battle of Moscow

The Battle of Moscow is the name given by the Soviet historians to the two periods of strategically significant fighting on a 600 km sector of the Eastern Front during World War II....
due to onset of cold weather that hampered the offensive operations. While operationally
Military operation

This article describes three distinct, but related terms: military operations, Operations as military events, and operational level of war....
very successful, the Battle of Kiev did little to enhance the German strategic position, because the main objective, a decisive victory that would conclude the war, was not achieved.

While the Soviet forces suffered terrible losses, they bought time for the defence of Moscow, thereby contributing to the prolonging the conflict, and leading to the eventual Allied victory in the war.

This was an important lesson for the Stavka
Stavka

Stavka was the term used to refer to commander-in-chief of armed forces from the time of the Kievan Rus', more formally during the history of Military history of Imperial Russia as Staff and General Headquarters during late 19th Century Imperial Russian armed forces and those of the Military history of the Soviet Union....
to learn on evading and extricating troops from other encirclement battles. In the later Battle of Moscow
Battle of Moscow

The Battle of Moscow is the name given by the Soviet historians to the two periods of strategically significant fighting on a 600 km sector of the Eastern Front during World War II....
, they avoided being encircled by the German forces, and by the time of the Battle of Stalingrad
Battle of Stalingrad

The Battle of Stalingrad was a battle between Nazi Germany and its allies and the Soviet Union for control of the city of Stalingrad in Southern Russia....
, it was they who were encircling the German formation.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Sep, 2009 10:08 pm
Note the portion you have boldfaced in your first source: "By now, the Red Army may have lost some three million men (casualties and prisoners)." Note also this portion of the second source you quoted: "Several hundred thousand Muscovites are turned out for employment as laborers on the city's defenses. Most of these are women, since the men have long since been absorbed into the Army."

You have failed to make your case. This first source you quote here does not support a contention that they Germans were slaughtering Russian soldiers out of hand. The second source does not support a contention that women fought because of a shortage of man-power. Therefore, i do not consider that you have sustained your initial contention, which was to the effect that women served in the Soviet forces because so many Russian men had been slaughtered that they were needed to fill the depleted ranks. As i have already pointed out, and you can find the evidence easily in a web search, just under a million women served in the Soviet armies, and most of them served in non-combat roles. That does not support your claim, which was patently specious on the face of it. In the scheme of things in Russia in the Second World War, 800,000 or 900,000 women was a drop in Russia's manpower bucket.

As for the second portion of you last post, in which you wrote: "The casualties in WWII were the direct result of the Revolution" (i suspect you meant to say that in World War I, the revolution was a direct result of the casualties suffered)--your original claim was that the Bolshevik revolution was a result of Russia's combat casualties. That displays a profound ignorance of the course of events in Russia in 1917. The first revolution, taking place in February by the calendar they employed, was the Russian revolution, and the immediate event which sparked it was women marching in Petrograd because of the high price of bread. Certainly one can argue, with justice, that Russia's war experience served to fuel that revolution. However, the Bolshevik revolution does not take place for eight more months, not until October, by the calendar they used--hence, their veneration of "Red October" in the Soviet iconography.

In both of these cases, you have allowed ignorance and imprecision to lead you into making remarks which you cannot sustain with the evidence. You have provided no evidence which supports a claim that the Germans encircled and slaughtered Soviet armies. You have failed to make the necessary distinction, crucial to an understanding of events, between the Russian revolution in late winter, 1917, and the Bolshevik revolution in the autumn of 1917.
talk72000
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Sep, 2009 10:28 pm
@Setanta,
In reading about Anne Frank I was surprised to read that large numbers of Russian POWs ended up in concentration camps like Auschwitz, Bergen Belsen, etc. These two men Hitler and Stalin were murderous dictators.

I have the book 'History's Greatest Hits' which include Joan of Arc, Battle of Hastings, The Irish Potato Famine and The October Revolution - describing the Bolshevik Revolution which was rather comic and bloodless. Two Americans were right there U.S. journalist John Reed and his wife Louise Bryant. The soldiers were in support of the Revolution and there is a picture of Trotsky by the podium as Lenin was speaking to a Moscow crowd.
0 Replies
 
talk72000
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Sep, 2009 10:58 pm
@Setanta,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_the_Russian_and_Soviet_military


Quote:
Women served in the Russian armed forces in small numbers in the early stages of the war, but their numbers increased after heavy Russian losses such as at the Battle of Tannenburg and Masurian Lakes and a need for increased manpower. One such recruit was Maria Bochkareva who served with the 25th Reserve Battalion of the Russian Army. After the abdication of Nicholas II of Russia in March 1917, she convinced interim prime minister Alexander Kerensky to let her form a women's battalion. The Women's Battalion of Death recruited women between the ages of 13 and 25 and appealed for support in a series of public meetings, enlisting approximately 2,000 soldiers. The Battalion fought during the June Offensive against German forces in 1917. Three months of fighting dwindled their numbers to around two-hundred and fifty.

The Women's Battalion was disbanded after a failed political revolution known as the Kornilov Affair. Its leader, General Lavr Kornilov, had been strongly supported by Bachkarova, and the Women's Battalion were identified as potential sympathizers. The majority of the battalion's members were reformed as the First Petrograd Women's Battalion. This group was at the Winter Palace on the night of the Bolshevik Revolution, along with an untrained cadet detachment and a bicycle regiment. They mounted a stiff resistance but ultimately fell, although there were only 5 deaths in the storming of the Winter Palace. The triumphant Bolsheviks officially disbanded the group.


Many of things I write are from memory as I occasionally takes books from the library. I read for understanding and hobby not as a professional. I can not give references as I don't have the book. In the books, I remember the tanks were driven out from the factory to the battle field by women after it was finished and women also fought along side men after the winter set in when the Germans were trapped.

I remember reading that Hitler wanted literally to wipe out the Red Army by encirclement but I can't remember where but when I find it I will quote it. Of course, the Nazi did not want it done openly in a brazen fashion as they did with the Jews. They did not kill unarmed prisoners as some of the Generals were rather honorable especially Rommel (who wasn't in the Eastern Front). But the strategy of encirclement and firing into the encirclement with artillery and bombs show an effort aimed at maximum kills. They wanted as few prisoners as possible.
0 Replies
 
talk72000
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Sep, 2009 11:51 pm
@Setanta,
http://www.marxists.org/history/etol/newspape/fi/vol03/no06/cadman.htm


Quote:
The German process of trapping and destroying portions of the Red Army was a new tactic developed by the German High Command especially for this campaign. Called the “Keil und Kessel” (wedge and trap), it consists of a mechanized wedge followed by motorized infantry with foot troops covering the flanks of the wedge. It penetrates the Russian line and surrounds Russian troop concentrations with the aim of annihilating them. This maneuver succeeded frequently in causing the destruction of great numbers of Soviet troops and in the loss by the Soviets of much equipment. The battles at Bialostok-Minsk, the Leningrad encirclement, the Kiev encirclement, and the Smolensk encirclement in August all featured this maneuver in its most successful form.
0 Replies
 
talk72000
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Sep, 2009 12:21 am
@Setanta,
http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/RUSnovemberR.htm


Quote:
On 8th July, 1917, Alexander Kerensky became the new leader of the Provisional Government. Kerensky was still the most popular man in the government because of his political past. In the Duma he had been leader of the moderate socialists and had been seen as the champion of the working-class. However, Kerensky, like George Lvov, was unwilling to end the war. In fact, soon after taking office, he announced a new summer offensive.

Soldiers on the Eastern Front were dismayed at the news and regiments began to refuse to move to the front line. There was a rapid increase in the number of men deserting and by the autumn of 1917 an estimated 2 million men had unofficially left the army.

Some of these soldiers returned to their homes and used their weapons to seize land from the nobility. Manor houses were burnt down and in some cases wealthy landowners were murdered. Kerensky and the Provisional Government issued warnings but were powerless to stop the redistribution of land in the countryside.

On 19th July, Kerensky gave orders for the arrest of leading Bolsheviks who were campaigning against the war. This included Vladimir Lenin, Gregory Zinoviev, Lev Kamenev, Anatoli Lunacharsky, and Alexandra Kollontai. The Bolshevik headquarters at the Kshesinsky Palace, was also occupied by government troops.

After the failure of the July Offensive on the Eastern Front, Kerensky replaced General Alexei Brusilov with General Lavr Kornilov, as Supreme Commander of the Russian Army. The two men soon clashed about military policy. Kornilov wanted Kerensky to restore the death-penalty for soldiers and to militarize the factories. Kerensky refused and sacked Kornilov.

Kornilov responded by sending troops under the leadership of General Krymov to take control of Petrograd. Kerensky was now in danger and was forced to ask the Soviets and the Red Guards to protect Petrograd. The Bolsheviks, who controlled these organizations, agreed to this request, but in a speech made by their leader, Vladimir Lenin, he made clear they would be fighting against Kornilov rather than for Kerensky.

Within a few days Bolsheviks had enlisted 25,000 armed recruits to defend Petrograd. While they dug trenches and fortified the city, delegations of soldiers were sent out to talk to the advancing troops. Meetings were held and Kornilov's troops decided not to attack Petrograd. General Krymov committed suicide and Kornilov was arrested and taken into custody.

Lenin now returned to Petrograd but remained in hiding. On 25th September, Kerensky attempted to recover his left-wing support by forming a new coalition that included more Mensheviks and Socialist Revolutionaries. However, with the Bolsheviks controlling the Soviets and now able to call on 25,000 armed militia, Kerensky's authority had been undermined.


The Bolsheviks set up their headquarters in the Smolny Institute. The former girls' convent school also housed the Petrograd Soviet. Under pressure from the nobility and industrialists, Alexander Kerensky was persuaded to take decisive action. On 22nd October he ordered the arrest of the Military Revolutionary Committee. The next day he closed down the Bolshevik newspapers and cut off the telephones to the Smolny Institute.

Leon Trotsky now urged the overthrow of the Provisional Government. Lenin agreed and on the evening of 24th October, 1917, orders were given for the Bolsheviks began to occupy the railway stations, the telephone exchange and the State Bank. The following day the Red Guards surrounded the Winter Palace. Inside was most of the country's Cabinet, although Kerensky had managed to escape from the city.

The Winter Palace was defended by Cossacks, some junior army officers and the Woman's Battalion. At 9 p.m. the Aurora and the Peter and Paul Fortress began to open fire on the palace. Little damage was done but the action persuaded most of those defending the building to surrender. The Red Guards, led by Vladimir Antonov-Ovseenko, now entered the Winter Palace and arrested the Cabinet ministers.

On 26th October, 1917, the All-Russian Congress of Soviets met and handed over power to the Soviet Council of People's Commissars. Vladimir Lenin was elected chairman and other appointments included Leon Trotsky (Foreign Affairs) Alexei Rykov (Internal Affairs), Anatoli Lunacharsky (Education), Alexandra Kollontai (Social Welfare), Felix Dzerzhinsky (Internal Affairs), Joseph Stalin (Nationalities), Peter Stuchka (Justice) and Vladimir Antonov-Ovseenko (War).
0 Replies
 
talk72000
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Sep, 2009 01:25 am
@Setanta,
Thanks that was great the part about the Bolsheviks being sent to the front lines and that allowed them to proselytize them to Bolshevism.

Quote:
Actually, the Tsartist policies fed Bolshevism into the army. The Bolsheviks were organized in cells, which meant if you discovered the members of one cell, it did not compromise the members of another cell--a piece of genius on the part of Lenin which has been much imitated since then. The Pharaohs would identify this or that labor agitator as a Bolshevik, and to get him out of the factories, they would ship him off to the front, where, of course, he would begin propagandizing the troops among whom he found himself. In that manner, unwittingly, and rather stupidly, the Tsarists themselves spread Bolshevism among the troops at the front.
0 Replies
 
CreepingBoNE
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Apr, 2011 04:45 pm
@Brandon9000,
When a woman is physically at her peak there is almost no recognizable difference between strength.

I'm fourteen years old, female (I might add NOT at my physical peak) and am able to carry a person (plenty of my friends) the same weight as me, sometimes even heavier, with little trouble.

Though that may just be me; I'm not sure.
0 Replies
 
 

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