A Dog's Intelligence

The difference you are referring to is the difference between "passive vocabulary" and "active vocabulary". Even adults will often have a very big discrepancy and I've seen studies that claim 10 times more passive vocabulary than active on average.

I've been having my dog watch The Price Is Right for years. He still doesn't know much a refrigerator costs.

Well a fridge costs more than $5 - he can only count to 5 what the heck do you expect?

My neighbor is a top psychologist/teacher at the university of British Columbia with sizable accolades and the usual paper trail; he stands by his dismissive views of Stanley.

Me, I have found Stanley to be naively anthropomorphic in a number of his claims on canine behavior.

Believe what you will, however as usual you have a penchant for the logical fallacy argumentum ad nauseum as well as the logical fallacy appeal to authority.

Yes, that's what I was explaining to Intrepid- but back in the day when I was in school we used the terms 'receptive vocabulary' - words you understand when listening (passive) and 'expressive vocabulary' - words you use when speaking (active)- so that when it's noted that a child has a vocabulary of 900 words, I'm pretty sure they were referring to his or her expressive vocabulary - because of course that is easier to measure- so we can deduce that his or her receptive vocabulary (what they understand) is much larger as you noted.

So if a dog only has a receptive vocabulary (since they can't technically 'speak') that 165 word figure when compared to what is probably over a few thousand words understood by a 2-3 year old child, hardly compares.

You would be much easier to take seriously if you did not bring the "logical fallacy argumentum ad nauseum" phrase into most discussions. That seems to be your reply to most everything.

Perhaps your neighbour is using sour grapes and is jealous of the notoriety of Stanley Coren. Why should we believe your neighbour's personal evaluation?

It is ironic that Chum accuses Intrepid of using an appeal to authority fallacy after anecdotally citing his neighbor with his alleged credentials.

I have compared some dogs' intelligence to small children over the course of the last few decades, but only a few of the ones in my personal experience have been exceptional enough for said comparison. And, in the end, I remained aware that dogs and children can never really be all that much the same. My last dog reached me on such a level that I considered her more than just a pet. At present, Punky, my Lab/Pit Bull mix, is a good companion and all, but she is in the final analysis. just a very good pet.

Edgar, interesting thread. I have had dogs my whole life. Muts, Beagle, Scottish Terrier, Dachshund, Golden Retrievers, Irish Wolfhounds, and Border Terriers, and rescued retired racing greyhounds. I have found, and many others too who written about intelligence in dogs, is that how trainable a dog is has nothing to do with intelligence. The smartest dogs frequently are very bored with repetitive tasks and refuse to do them...like an obedience level training. The hound is very smart in this way. He just doesn't like sitting and lying down for long periods for nothing but a pat or a treat. That doesn't mean the hounds don't understand words that I say any more than the retrievers I have had. I now have two Border Terriers, an Irish Wolfhound, and one rescued racing Greyhound (gorgeous, intelligent, sweet!) and they all know many words and watch me like hawks for any clues to what is happening. I find the hounds to be absolutely loyal and sweet and their intelligence shines through each day. The Border Terriers are the sweetest except when chasing the rabbits and vermin! I would say they all have a large vocabulary.

I wonder if this took what you are stating into consideration. The breed I have is rated high in intelligence and it is also noted about the breed that they can be difficult to train as they are very intelligent (and stubborn and have their own mind).

Also, intelligence can be subjective - is a trainable dog more intelligent? Is a dog that is sweet and accomdating more intelligent? Is a dog more intelligent that is crafty and get out of things (like fences and collars, etc.) - that describes my beast - he has already chewed out of two collars and is known to be an escape artist.

Yup, Linkat! We cannot know how our beasties really think. Sometimes they seem to know more than we do. They teach me so much and how I love them! If they could talk, I am sure they would tell us how much we mean to them...most of them know us as the "Alpha" pack leader. Mine do! You have to wonder what goes through their dog "pack minds" sometimes. Kuvasz of Abuzz and A2K knows of what I speak. When my dogs are with me...they know and pay attention. They know and they learn. Words, movement, inflection of voice. They are highly intelligent.

Some birds have the intelligence of a 5 year old

I thought this thread was about dogs? Yes, some birds do have exceptional intelligence...hence the saying "bird brain" ain't exactly the way I would talk about birds. Dogs can't mimic words, but they are highly intelligent.

A reason to kick myself in retrospect is for not recording Pacco. He had a lot of interesting vocalizing, warning bark being the least of it. He wasn't all that loud and barky, but did seem to be a'talkin' sometimes. On the other hand, even I, ever fond, wouldn't want to run tapes of his sounds far into the future.

One thing I liked about some transitional phones, the ones with little bitty tapes, is that you could save tapes, and thus have friends' voices. I have one or two saved, and have never replayed them, but sort of like that they're there.
In the same way, my answer phone is never at zero, as I keep a couple of old call messages.

Hey, Ossobucco...I have kept a tape of my dogs from long ago on my answering machine. I know, I know...but I miss them and this is the way to keep their sounds. No one who calls and doesn't know me, knows they are "old barkers"! How I miss them.

Funny you mention barking - the other day I heard an interview with this woman who was doing a study on dog barking - why does a dog bark, is he "talking"; etc. The study's conclusion was that dog barks because they are uncomfortable or in a situation that is conflicting.

I still think they are trying to talk to us.

My Kelsely seldom barked unless excited or as a warning. She did seem to be able to "speak" in that she used particular guttural type sounds for various reasons. I deduced, over time, what the meanings were and knew when she wanted something in particular or had to go outside, come inside etc. etc.

Not that Kelsey was any smarter than any other dog. Just that we, as owners, must be aware and caring enough to decipher what they are "saying". Of course, this takes time.

Here is a quick summary of the study:

Kathryn Lord, a University of Massachusetts, Amherst doctoral candidate, worked to define the bark, finding that birds, monkeys and deer make the noise as well. The scientists determined that dogs do not bark with human-like messages in mind, as many biologists believe, but rather primarily to ward off predators and deal with conflict.

And for those that want to read a bit more.http://www.thebostonchannel.com/news/20120437/detail.html

I still like to think my dog is talking with me so there!

They may not talk in the sense that we thing of talking to be. They do, I am sure, communicate with us.

Two of my dogs used to get in front of me in my easy chair, of an evening. The little one would start it, but within moments they both were "smiling" and barking repeatedly. I knew right away the first time they did it that they had decided they had waited overlong to get that evening snack. It became a ritual that they would demand their snack every night, from then on.