18
   

Who Blew It? President Obama, Professor Gates or Sgt. Crowley

 
 
Yankee
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Jul, 2009 06:13 am
@Cycloptichorn,
Quote:
What a weak Appeal to Authority from you. Why don't you just admit that you don't know what the laws are, so you have no clue whether or not the officer followed the law?


Just like you, I too am able to search the "net" and educate myself about the proper procedures (not laws) that needed to be followed in this case. You are no genius.

Since I was not there, I can only form a judgment based upon what I read, who is making statements, and judge those statements based upon the persons credibility.

So shall I believe the statements of police officers who WHERE there, fellow officers, Police Administrative personal, or a bunch of cry baby liberals like Mr Gates, you and many of Mr. Gates "Harvard Friends".

I think I will give the benefit of the doubt to those who were there, doing their job.

I expect and hope Mr. Gates apologizes to Sgt Crowley for his bad behavior. Once that happens, Sgt Crowley could apologize for not walking away from that loud mouth fool.
Sglass
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Jul, 2009 06:19 am
Did anyone catch Colin Powell on Larry King's show on CCN?

My personal opinion was "it was yesterday's bath water". Powell patted himself on the back that he was a macho brother that could handle racial profiling and protrayed Dr. Gates as wimpy and hysterical. But of course he is republican and took the opportunity, on King's show, to criticise Obama's health plan.

Okay, next.
parados
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Jul, 2009 06:51 am
@Yankee,
Quote:
The Police Captain stated clearly that Sgt Crowley followed proper procedures.

Case closed.

No, that doesn't close the case. The Captain wasn't there, just like you and I weren't there. He is relying on the word of his officer and has a bias to support that officer even if procedures were fudged and little lies were told.
engineer
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Jul, 2009 07:41 am
@parados,
What I don't understand is why Sgt. Crowley doesn't just apologize. If I accidentally step on someone's foot, I would say "I'm sorry". I didn't mean to step on his foot. There was no bias involved. Maybe someone bumped me so it wasn't even my fault. Still, I would say "sorry". Crowley was just doing his job, but he essentially stepped on Gates' foot. Sure, Gates got in his face. Crowley should have said (even if he didn't mean it) "sorry to disturb you" and been on his way. I don't see how arresting Gates constitutes following "proper procedures."
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Jul, 2009 07:55 am
@engineer,
engineer wrote:

What I don't understand is why Sgt. Crowley doesn't just apologize. If I accidentally step on someone's foot, I would say "I'm sorry". I didn't mean to step on his foot. There was no bias involved. Maybe someone bumped me so it wasn't even my fault. Still, I would say "sorry". Crowley was just doing his job, but he essentially stepped on Gates' foot. Sure, Gates got in his face. Crowley should have said (even if he didn't mean it) "sorry to disturb you" and been on his way. I don't see how arresting Gates constitutes following "proper procedures."

He doesn't apologize because he did nothing wrong. Why doesn't Gates apologize for going haywire in Crowley's face? When a cop tries to resolve a potential crime with an innocent party of interest and the latter is substantially uncooperative, loud, and insulting, it is probably very standard for the cop to arrest him for disorderly conduct.
engineer
 
  2  
Reply Wed 29 Jul, 2009 08:22 am
@Brandon9000,
If someone bumped me, resulting in me stepping on someone's foot, then I shouldn't apologize because I did nothing wrong? If that person then gets into my face about it and I'm a police officer, I can arrest them? The courts in Mass. have established that being loud and insulting to a police officer is not grounds for arrest. If we arrested people who ever get loud and insulting, the six remaining people would have to build jails non-stop. Crowley did do something wrong. He over-reacted to Gates' over-reaction. But Crowley did it with his badge, using his authority to arrest someone for something that is not a crime.
Cycloptichorn
 
  0  
Reply Wed 29 Jul, 2009 08:51 am
@Yankee,
Yankee wrote:

Quote:
What a weak Appeal to Authority from you. Why don't you just admit that you don't know what the laws are, so you have no clue whether or not the officer followed the law?


Just like you, I too am able to search the "net" and educate myself about the proper procedures (not laws) that needed to be followed in this case. You are no genius.


Yes, but unlike me, you have not done so. Instead, you have decided that the cops were right and Gates wrong - despite the fact that Gates was let go without charges and the fact that Crowley violated MA law. That is what is weak about your response, and yourself - you don't care what the facts are, or what the law is.

You don't have to be a genius, but you should put in a minimal amount of effort if you are going to expect your opinion to be taken seriously.

Quote:
Since I was not there, I can only form a judgment based upon what I read, who is making statements, and judge those statements based upon the persons credibility.

So shall I believe the statements of police officers who WHERE there, fellow officers, Police Administrative personal, or a bunch of cry baby liberals like Mr Gates, you and many of Mr. Gates "Harvard Friends".


I don't really give a **** who you believe. It doesn't make you right in any way. It just makes you another idiot Conservative, interested in promoting authoritarianism regardless of the actual Law.

Quote:
I think I will give the benefit of the doubt to those who were there, doing their job.

I expect and hope Mr. Gates apologizes to Sgt Crowley for his bad behavior. Once that happens, Sgt Crowley could apologize for not walking away from that loud mouth fool.


I agree that Gates should apologize; but Crowley violated the trust of his office by making an improper arrest. His apology should be as heartfelt, and he's ******* lucky he's not punished for his actions.

Cycloptichorn
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Jul, 2009 08:52 am
@Brandon9000,
Brandon9000 wrote:

engineer wrote:

What I don't understand is why Sgt. Crowley doesn't just apologize. If I accidentally step on someone's foot, I would say "I'm sorry". I didn't mean to step on his foot. There was no bias involved. Maybe someone bumped me so it wasn't even my fault. Still, I would say "sorry". Crowley was just doing his job, but he essentially stepped on Gates' foot. Sure, Gates got in his face. Crowley should have said (even if he didn't mean it) "sorry to disturb you" and been on his way. I don't see how arresting Gates constitutes following "proper procedures."

He doesn't apologize because he did nothing wrong. Why doesn't Gates apologize for going haywire in Crowley's face? When a cop tries to resolve a potential crime with an innocent party of interest and the latter is substantially uncooperative, loud, and insulting, it is probably very standard for the cop to arrest him for disorderly conduct.


He clearly did do something wrong, Brandon. He arrested Gates for bullshit reasons. That is an abuse of his power.

Gates was not engaging in disorderly conduct in any fashion. You can't just throw a legal term like that around like it means whatever you want, in a discussion about whether or not a cop is right to arrest someone.

Cycloptichorn
Yankee
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Jul, 2009 09:02 am
@Cycloptichorn,
Quote:
Yes, but unlike me, you have not done so.


Another arrogant presumption on your part, Sparky!

Yes I have concluded that based upon the cast of characters, I place more confidence in the Mass PD than the media and Mr. Gates accounting of the event. You also again characterize a procedure aws LAW. That is inaccurate. I accept accuracy and your opinion are 2 different things and any resemblance of such is purely coincidental.

Quote:
I don't really give a **** who you believe. It doesn't make you right in any way.


Then what is the point of a so called discussion or exchange of ideas if you are going to be pig headed and arrogant and not care what anyone else has to say. Do you want the members of this chat room to bow down to your every type written word? Are you that full of yourself? Apparently so!

Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Jul, 2009 09:08 am
@Yankee,
Yankee wrote:

Then what is the point of a so called discussion or exchange of ideas if you are going to be pig headed and arrogant and not care what anyone else has to say. Do you want the members of this chat room to bow down to your every type written word? Are you that full of yourself? Apparently so!


I do care what people have to say, but only when they have demonstrated that they are willing to perform the least bit of due diligence before spouting off their opinions. You have decided to inform your opinion with neither fact nor logic, so it isn't an interesting one to me.

BTW, it is not procedure that cops have to show ID to citizens who request it in MA, it is the law. You claimed that Crowley positively ID'd himself to Gates; but he did not, he ignored the law and did not present his identification.

Here's the law -

http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/41-98d.htm

Quote:

Section 98D. Each city or town shall issue to every full time police officer employed by it an identification card bearing his photograph and the municipal seal. Such card shall be carried on the officer’s person, and shall be exhibited upon lawful request for purposes of identification.


That's not a procedure, that's the law. Gates was inside his house, Crowley was there alone, he should have produced this ID before Gates knew he was even a real cop. He refused to do so. You, when claiming differently, were 100% wrong.

I understand the frustration that you feel, when you are clearly losing an argument for which you didn't prepare very well, but hey - don't blame me. You could have looked this stuff up yourself.

Cycloptichorn
Yankee
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Jul, 2009 10:20 am
@Cycloptichorn,
Quote:
I understand the frustration that you feel, when you are clearly losing an argument for which you didn't prepare very well, but hey - don't blame me. You could have looked this stuff up yourself.


Losing an argument? LOL!

Again your arrogance is duly noted, Sparky.

Too bad when your parents raised you, they forgot to tell you what respecting authority and your elders really means.

Grow up !

Hey, I understand the 911 caller is now looking to cash in on the 15 minutes of fame Mr. Gates created. My guess is that the 911 caller is going to blame the 911 dispatcher for bringing race into the situation by asking her what the suspects looked like.

She sure sounds like another elitist snob you can identify with, Sparky!
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Jul, 2009 10:28 am
@Yankee,
Yankee wrote:

Quote:
I understand the frustration that you feel, when you are clearly losing an argument for which you didn't prepare very well, but hey - don't blame me. You could have looked this stuff up yourself.


Losing an argument? LOL!

Again your arrogance is duly noted, Sparky.

Too bad when your parents raised you, they forgot to tell you what respecting authority and your elders really means.

Grow up !

Hey, I understand the 911 caller is now looking to cash in on the 15 minutes of fame Mr. Gates created. My guess is that the 911 caller is going to blame the 911 dispatcher for bringing race into the situation by asking her what the suspects looked like.

She sure sounds like another elitist snob you can identify with, Sparky!


I have no idea what point you are trying to convey in this post; but it is clear, that when discussing the original topic, you were shown to be wrong. Crowley violated the law in several ways. The arrest was not a valid one. He should never have done what he did and he owes and apology to Gates, just as Gates should apologize for being rude. However, the crucial difference being, Gates was a private citizen on his own property, and Crowley was a public servant - in a very real sense, Gates' servant. He has no right whatsoever to abuse his authority.

You are clearly incorrect in your conclusions that he does, you don't know the laws involved, and you basically have no other argument. It means nothing to me if you want to retreat into insults.

I know you Conservatives don't believe anyone other than yourselves when it comes to analysis, because years of being shown how poor you are at it has left you calloused and hurt. So, here's Fox News' legal analyst explaining to you, Yankee, patiently, why the arrest was illegal and why Gates did nothing illegal:



Educate yourself and you won't look as foolish in the future.

By the way,

Quote:

Too bad when your parents raised you, they forgot to tell you what respecting authority and your elders really means.


If by 'authority' you mean 'cops,' I do respect their power and duty. If by 'elders' you mean yourself, you are incorrect. You are not my elder. On the internet, such distinctions are immaterial. You are just another right-winger who doesn't know what he's talking about, a cocky and arrogant one who doesn't think it's necessary to have actual facts when discussing things. That's why I don't take you seriously or respect your opinion; you haven't given me any reason to do so.

Cycloptichorn
Yankee
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Jul, 2009 10:36 am
@Cycloptichorn,
Quote:
He has no right whatsoever to abuse his authority.


Do what Mr. Gates did the next time you are pulled over for a traffic violation. Start screaming racism and make a scene.

Sorry, people have no right to verbally abuse a police officer during the investigation of a crime.

That is my opinion and nothing you have stated so far will sway me. You are not that smart, Sparky!
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Jul, 2009 10:39 am
@Yankee,
Yankee wrote:

Quote:
He has no right whatsoever to abuse his authority.


Do what Mr. Gates did the next time you are pulled over for a traffic violation. Start screaming racism and make a scene.

Sorry, people have no right to verbally abuse a police officer during the investigation of a crime.

That is my opinion and nothing you have stated so far will sway me. You are not that smart, Sparky!


Inside one's own home, you do in fact have the right to verbally abuse a police officer, especially if he entered uninvited, as Crowley did. You are simply incorrect.

I don't care if I sway your opinion or not; it isn't one built on facts or the Law, but instead on your own personal reasons for supporting the officers in this case. You can't sway opinions like yours using facts. By the way, this isn't the sign of a strong position on your part.

I'm tired of wasting my energy showing how many different ways you are incorrect; your arguments are lame and boring. If you can't put something better together, I think I will just leave it at that.

Cycloptichorn
Yankee
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Jul, 2009 10:58 am
@Cycloptichorn,
Quote:
especially if he entered uninvited,


Another LOVELY misrepresentation of known FACTS.

How does a police officer investigate a possible breaking and entering without entering to make sure all is safe?

I know, just take the word of the guy standing at the front door. Even if he/she displays valid proof of ID and Ownership, should the police investigate further just in case the second guy has a gun to a family members head

0 Replies
 
TTH
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Jul, 2009 12:06 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Inside one's own home, you do in fact have the right to verbally abuse a police officer, especially if he entered uninvited, as Crowley did.
So if the person was a real burglar he should invite a police officer into the house? I think Sgt. Crowley should have done more. He should of handcuffed the guy, for officer safety reasons, when Gates refused to show ID and became verbally abusive.
Yankee
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Jul, 2009 12:07 pm
The woman who made the 911 call that launched America into a national debate on race said Wednesday that she was unfairly called a "racist" after she reported a possible break-in at the Cambridge, Mass., home of black Harvard scholar Henry Louis Gates Jr.

A clearly distressed Lucia Whalen addressed reporters at a press conference in an effort to clear her name after the city released the 911 tape. It revealed that Whalen did not identify either of the men she thought she saw trying to break into Gates' home as black, even though an initial police report said she did.

"When I was called racist and I was a target of scorn and ridicule because of the things I never said, the criticisms hurt me as a person, but it also hurt the community of Cambridge," Whalen said.

"Now that the tapes are out, I hope people can see that I tried to be careful and honest with my words," she said. "It never occurred to me that the way that I reported what I saw be analyzed by an entire nation."

Whalen said repeatedly in the July 16 call that she didn't have a good vantage point and could not see what the two men trying to get into the home looked like.

When pressed by a dispatcher on whether the men were white, black or Hispanic, Whalen said one of them might have been Hispanic.

The two men Whalen saw trying to force their way into the home turned out to be Gates, who lives there, and his driver. Gates was arrested by Cambridge Police Sgt. James Crowley for disorderly conduct, but charges were later dropped.

Whalen's attorney, Wendy Murphy, seized the opportunity to criticize President Obama's invitation to host both Gates and Crowley for a beer summit at the White House on Thursday.

"The one person whose actions have been exemplary, will be at work tomorrow in Cambridge," she told reporters. "I don't know. Maybe it's a guy thing."

Murphy said the incident spiraled into a media sensation because of the "overreaction of three men" -- which Murphy said included the response from the president.

"I'm proud to introduce you to the one person who didn’t overreact," she said.

Obama said during a press conference last week that the Cambridge police had "acted stupidly" when they arrested Gates even after he showed them identification verifying his residence.

A White House administration official confirmed Monday that Obama will be hosting the two men for a beer at the White House.

The president had phoned Crowley, who suggested the three men sit down for a drink. The president said he liked the idea, and Gates reportedly concurred when Obama phoned him next.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/07/29/caller-gates-incident-says-unfairly-dubbed-racist/

I was wrong and I congratulate the caller for her honesty.

Looks like the liberal media and the elitist snobs here on A2K and Cambridge overreacted and made fools of themselves in the process.
0 Replies
 
Yankee
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Jul, 2009 12:08 pm
@TTH,
What the elitists refuse to remember is that the call referred to TWO people possibly breaking and entering.

Mr. Gates came to the door. Where was the other guy? Police needed to enter to investigate.

Liberals refuse to think things through (or think at all for that matter).
TTH
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Jul, 2009 01:26 pm
@Yankee,
Well my take on the situation, based on what I have read, is that Gates escalated the situation to begin with. Did Sgt. Crowley have to arrest Gates? No, he didn't. Did Sgt. Crowley violate a law by making the arrest? No, he didn't. Should the President make a comment without knowing the facts? No, he shouldn't.

0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Wed 29 Jul, 2009 04:47 pm
@Sglass,
Powell, the war criminal, the liar. These people simply have no moral compass. Nor are they held to any standard by the very people who should be doing that very thing.
0 Replies
 
 

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