31
   

Should NASA go to Mars or back to the Moon?

 
 
Philis
 
  2  
Reply Tue 1 Jun, 2010 04:21 am
Nasa shoud not go to mars or the moon. Now that the space shuttles have been put down as too old and Nasa needs new shuttles, that will be billions of dollars and we need the cash in other places.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Jun, 2010 06:48 am
@Philis,
Shuttles are nice but as they are limits to low earth orbit at the very best they should not be the main focus of a space program
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Tue 1 Jun, 2010 07:01 am
@Eorl,
The Portuguese were already doin' that in 1492 . . .
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Jun, 2010 10:45 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
Shuttles are nice but as they are limits to low earth orbit at the very best they should not be the main focus of a space program
the shuttles are ancient, and never did what they were designed to do, and it is an embarrassment that they have been the main focus of the space program for as long as they have been.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Jun, 2010 03:41 am
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
the shuttles are ancient, and never did what they were designed to do, and it is an embarrassment that they have been the main focus of the space program for as long as they have been.


Yes the shuttles have their short comings as we all are sadly aware of however the main problem was the design was cheapen.

A launch vehicle was in the design to start with that would have allow far cheaper access to space.

The boaster rockets could had been caste as one piece but for the desire to give the business of to a Texas firm and we would had have one more shuttle remaining.
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Jun, 2010 12:40 pm
http://gizmodo.com/5552774/lets-cover-the-moon-in-solar-panels
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Jun, 2010 12:47 pm
@DrewDad,
Completely feasible, especially if we can get a factory up and running to make some of the parts for the solar panels on site.

Forget about sending power back, tho - use it to run mass drivers and lasers to power solar sails, and let's REALLY get going!

Cycloptichorn
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Jun, 2010 02:10 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Quote:
use it to run mass drivers and lasers to power solar sails, and let's REALLY get going!


Please do not forget about nuclear bombs push plate rockets that could move ten of thousands of tons of cargo from one end of the solar system to another beginning on the moon surface.

No problems with atmosphere fallout as on earth. All we need to do is get the infrastructure to build most of such ships parts on the moon.
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Jun, 2010 09:04 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

Quote:
use it to run mass drivers and lasers to power solar sails, and let's REALLY get going!


Please do not forget about nuclear bombs push plate rockets that could move ten of thousands of tons of cargo from one end of the solar system to another beginning on the moon surface.

No problems with atmosphere fallout as on earth. All we need to do is get the infrastructure to build most of such ships parts on the moon.


If you're going nuclear, why not just use the heat from a reactor to accelerate water?
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Jun, 2010 09:59 pm
@Brandon9000,
It's been a while since I've read up on it, but you get a REALLY BIG push when you set off a nuclear bomb under your armored plate.

We're talking carrier-sized spaceships, not dinky little shuttles.
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Jun, 2010 10:24 pm
@DrewDad,
DrewDad wrote:

It's been a while since I've read up on it, but you get a REALLY BIG push when you set off a nuclear bomb under your armored plate.

We're talking carrier-sized spaceships, not dinky little shuttles.

That would do it, I suppose. You save on your heating bill too.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Jun, 2010 03:35 am
@Brandon9000,
Quote:
If you're going nuclear, why not just use the heat from a reactor to accelerate water?


The design of a push plate rocket given the small bombs is very simple with very little to go wrong and it can move ocean freighter loads of men and cargo anywhere in the system.

So why fool around with something like a complex nuclear reactor that can do less or at best no more then a push plate rocket?
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Jun, 2010 04:14 am
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

Quote:
If you're going nuclear, why not just use the heat from a reactor to accelerate water?


The design of a push plate rocket given the small bombs is very simple with very little to go wrong and it can move ocean freighter loads of men and cargo anywhere in the system.

So why fool around with something like a complex nuclear reactor that can do less or at best no more then a push plate rocket?

It seems to me that when you're being propelled by atomic bombs, lots can go wrong. My way is less dramatic.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Jun, 2010 04:23 am
@Brandon9000,
Quote:
It seems to me that when you're being propelled by atomic bombs, lots can go wrong. My way is less dramatic
.

What could go wrong????????

Less dramatic also does not mean safer or better just less dramatic.
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Jun, 2010 04:28 am
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

Quote:
It seems to me that when you're being propelled by atomic bombs, lots can go wrong. My way is less dramatic
.

What could go wrong????????

Less dramatic also does not mean safer or better just less dramatic.

What could go wrong? Oh, I don't know, maybe the nuclear bombs could destroy the vehicle? Do you think that just because someone states a fantastical theory that's never been attempted, it means it will actually work easily? Show me one iota of evidence that the bomb rocket could actually be made to work without moving heaven and Earth to perfect it. Nuclear heat exchange rockets, which I proposed, have actually been built and tested as long ago as the 1950s. How many years would it take to make your technology work? Maybe it would even turn out to be impractical, for all that's actually known.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Jun, 2010 04:57 am
@Brandon9000,
Quote:
Do you think that just because someone states a fantastical theory that's never been attempted, it means it will actually work easily?


The work had been done by some of the best scientists of the time who in fact were the very ones who developed our whole nuclear technology and under a government program.

We could have done it with the 1950s technology it is not a big deal and a lot of the work on it is now unclassified and can be found online.

Models using non-nuclear bombs was flown as a matter of fact.

In fact the only thing that is still classified as far as I know is the technology to build the very small nuclear bombs needed.

It is very simple and therefore not a great engineering challenge.

Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Jun, 2010 04:59 am
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

Quote:
Do you think that just because someone states a fantastical theory that's never been attempted, it means it will actually work easily?


The work had been done by some of the best scientists of the time who in fact were the ones who developed our whole nuclear technology and under a government program.

We could have done it with the 1950s technology it is not a big deal and a lot of the work on it is now unclassified and can be found online.

Models using non-nuclear bombs was flown as a matter of fact.

In fact the only thing that is still classified as far as I know is the technology to build the very small nuclear bombs needed.

It is very simple and therefore not a great engineering challenge.


I would like to see a link to an actual flight of such a vehicle.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Jun, 2010 05:02 am
@Brandon9000,
Try googling it!!!!!!!!!
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Jun, 2010 05:13 am
@Brandon9000,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Orion_(nuclear_propulsion)

Numerous model flight tests (using conventional explosives) were conducted at Point Loma in 1959. On November 14, the one-meter model, called "Hot Rod" (or "putt-putt"), first flew using RDX (chemical explosives) in a controlled flight for 23 seconds to a height of 56 meters. Film of the tests has been transcribed to video[15] shown on the BBC TV program "To Mars by A-Bomb" in 2003 with comments by Freeman Dyson and Arthur C. Clarke. The model landed by parachute undamaged and is in the collection of the Smithsonian National Air and Space Museum.

Here is the link to the model flight on youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQCrPNEsQaY

Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Jun, 2010 05:36 am
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Orion_(nuclear_propulsion)

Numerous model flight tests (using conventional explosives) were conducted at Point Loma in 1959. On November 14, the one-meter model, called "Hot Rod" (or "putt-putt"), first flew using RDX (chemical explosives) in a controlled flight for 23 seconds to a height of 56 meters. Film of the tests has been transcribed to video[15] shown on the BBC TV program "To Mars by A-Bomb" in 2003 with comments by Freeman Dyson and Arthur C. Clarke. The model landed by parachute undamaged and is in the collection of the Smithsonian National Air and Space Museum.

Here is the link to the model flight on youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQCrPNEsQaY



The former link contains nothing about actual tests of such a vehicle. The video in the latter link shows, without explanation, some rocket going up apparently a hundred feet or so propelled by very, very small conventional explosives. This isn't much indication of the practicality of propelling a rocket with atom bombs, nor does it say much about what it would take to develop such a vehicle. The research project required to make such a thing work would be enormous. Why not go with less unusual nuclear propulsion technology that's already well understood and well tested?
 

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