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britains stupid legal system strikes again

 
 
Grand Duke
 
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Reply Wed 8 Oct, 2003 05:41 am
Perhaps because I looked into emmigrating to NZ, and am too low in the very strict points system they use to assess applicants like me (the general public), and I was pissed off hearing about all the migrants from wherever getting residency here in Britain. I'll stop making un-informed claims henceforth.
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Walter Hinteler
 
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Reply Wed 8 Oct, 2003 10:25 am
kev wrote:
my angry comments are not directed at people from other countries, they are directed at the neverending stupidity of successive British governments who allow people from all over the world (obviously in the main that is from third world countries) to arrive here, often illegally, and who then from minute one get "rights" that British people can only dream about.


Steve already asked about the 'allowance' - may I remind you that it is a human right, the right of asking for asylum? (And I sincerely do hope, neither you nor any of us will ever come in a situation to ask for this human right!!!)

To say, a government allows someone to enter illegally is a little bit, well, that would be a criminal act, you know. (You don't say, government allows crimes because they are done in the UK, or do you?)

Britain, the UK, has a long tradition of "immigration", especially from so-called third world countries - had had some colonies there, you remember?

I must believe that you are no racist.

I must admit as well that I donÄt believe this, when any other neo-Nazi here says it.
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kev
 
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Reply Wed 8 Oct, 2003 10:50 am
Walter Hinteler wrote:
kev wrote:



may I remind you that it is a human right, the right of asking for asylum? (And I sincerely do hope, neither you nor any of us will ever come in a situation to ask for this human right!!!)


Walter, you cannot seriously be suggesting that the 100,000 people per annum that arrive on our little island are all people who's lives are in immediate threat of death and who need asylum.
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Walter Hinteler
 
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Reply Wed 8 Oct, 2003 11:08 am
No. Neither were all of those, who came here (but not the public, but law and courts regulate that here): 438.191 in 1992 - going down from that years some 300,000 , 200,000 to 150,00 in zhe late 90's.
Down now to 80,000.

We are not so actractive any more.
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Steve 41oo
 
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Reply Wed 8 Oct, 2003 02:14 pm
GD no need to apologise! You just said something was "certain" when you meant "In my experience....."

Easily done, to my knowledge Embarrassed
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Walter Hinteler
 
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Reply Wed 8 Oct, 2003 02:37 pm
Coming back to kev's original statement that
Quote:
britains stupid legal system strikes again

what exactly do you want to have changed?

The legal system of England and Wales comprises both an historic body of conventions known as common law and equity, and parliamentary and European Community legislation; the last of these applies throughout Britain.

And another question: by whom, since all, who now can legally change the system, are part of it.
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McTag
 
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Reply Wed 8 Oct, 2003 02:57 pm
I think it is a fact that Britain needs more immigrants, to survive. The birthrate is low, and falling. The average age of the population is rising.
Emigration of ethnic Brits is high and rising.
We need immigrants. Is that not so?

And on another note, I agree the law is mad. An ass.
For example, if a burglar climbs on to your factory roof at night, and falls through the roof injuring himself, you are responsible in law for his fall, and his injuries.
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the prince
 
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Reply Thu 9 Oct, 2003 04:20 am
Shocked
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kev
 
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Reply Thu 9 Oct, 2003 08:13 am
Walter,

What I want to have changed is the law that allows anyone from anywhere to enter this country and immediately be entitled to free housing, free health care, free dental treatment, free education for their kids, and social security for life without contributing anything simply by saying "I am seeking asylum"

I should mention that at the same time we, the long suffering people of this country who paid for 50 years to make this dream possible, are the ones that are now being told that we should expect to work until we die because there isn't enough money in the kitty to pay for pensions for British people.

God I'm a selfish bastard arn't I? Just because I've worked 45 years I have this ridiculous idea that I should be entitled to the same consideration as people who have paid f*** all into the system.

What is wrong with me?
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Steve 41oo
 
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Reply Thu 9 Oct, 2003 08:23 am
Quote:
What I want to have changed is the law that allows anyone from anywhere to enter this country and immediately be entitled to free housing, free health care, free dental treatment, free education for their kids, and social security for life without contributing anything simply by saying "I am seeking asylum"


Suggest you take a day trip to France, throw your passport in the Channel and use the magic words "I am seeking asylum" at immigration officers at Dover. Let us know you you get on.
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kev
 
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Reply Thu 9 Oct, 2003 09:08 am
Steve (as 41oo) wrote:
[quote

Suggest you take a day trip to France, throw your passport in the Channel and use the magic words "I am seeking asylum" at immigration officers at Dover. Let us know you you get on.


Steve what the f*** are you talking about? if anything.
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Walter Hinteler
 
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Reply Thu 9 Oct, 2003 09:21 am
kev wrote:

Steve what the f*** are you talking about? if anything.


Regarding the language, you use exactly the same as any other Nazi worldwide, sorry to notice this.

And your direct question to me from some responses above, well, it's the same answer.
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Steve 41oo
 
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Reply Thu 9 Oct, 2003 10:24 am
Quote:
What I want to have changed is the law that allows anyone from anywhere to enter this country and immediately be entitled to free housing, free health care, free dental treatment, free education for their kids, and social security for life without contributing anything simply by saying "I am seeking asylum"


I was suggesting that if you actually arrived at immigration control with no i.d. no money etc, you would not find the process of seeking asylum in the UK as idyllic as you suggest above.
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kev
 
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Reply Thu 9 Oct, 2003 06:18 pm
Steve/Walter sometimes ordinary guy talk comes over as being offensive when in print, I can see how my remarks would be taken as offensive please accept my apologies for that. In yorkshire we tend to say it like we see it.

Although my initial objection to these people coming here illegally and getting a £130,000 payday still stands.
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Steve 41oo
 
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Reply Fri 10 Oct, 2003 03:05 am
Quote:
a £130,000 payday


Well I think I would object too, I'd just like to understand how you arrive at the figure!

Alternatively perhaps I will attempt a few illegal entries every time I come back to the UK. I'll give you a 10% commission Walter.

Or when you're over here next, remember to claim asylum and we can all stay at the Ritz.
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the prince
 
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Reply Fri 10 Oct, 2003 03:51 am
Kev, I have to admit that as an immigrant (tough not illegal) to this country, I am finding yr views slightly disturbing.

Remember, the lawmakers who make these policies, the judges who hand down these sentences, are all British - it is sad to see that you are blaming the follies of them on immigrants. Let me assure you, there is no pain greater than leaving yr home, yr country, yr roots.

Stupid legal systems strikes the british people as well - remember Tony Martin ? Everyone is painted by the same brush in this country - the hand wielding the brush is imbecilic, not the person who is getting painted.
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Grand Duke
 
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Reply Fri 10 Oct, 2003 04:38 am
So - do we have too many immigrants or not? I'd like to see some stats. There are certainly very few visible immigrants here in York, but I know that's not the case in some parts of the rest of the country.

Is there a difference between an immigrant like Gautam, who is obviously intelligent & hard-working & 'an asset' to the country, and those who sneak in in lorries because they know that if they went through the proper channels they'd likely be turned away? I'm not sure if there is or not - can anyone give me their opinion on this?

BTW Gautam, if it's not too personal a question to ask, was it difficult for you to get residency here? Did you need to prove education & employment history and score a certain no. of points on some scale, or is it simpler than that?
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the prince
 
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Reply Fri 10 Oct, 2003 04:53 am
GD, nopes not at all - but then I am a bit of an anomaly in this process as my company lawers took care of everything. I just had to put my signatures on the form and that was it...

Work Permit (when I first moved in this country) came in 2 weeks, Permanent residency (after 4 yrs) took 1 week, and citizenship took 6 weeks.

LOL, thanks for yr kinds words abt people like me being assets to the country. But similarly, many immgrants also prove to be assets in their own way - taking up menial jobs which no "british" would like to do - but which are as neccessary as anything else. They often work at lower wages and longer hours. My entire household support staff consists of Polish immigrants, and I have never seen a more sincere lot.

Ofcourse, every basket has bad apples, but that does not mean you throw away the entire basket do you ?
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Grand Duke
 
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Reply Fri 10 Oct, 2003 05:11 am
It's true about the menial jobs. There a several manual car-washes in Leeds, and all the staff are Eastern European immigrants (whether legal or not I don't know). I certainly wouldn't fancy earning my living standing outside washing other people's cars all day every day (and they do a fine job).

When I was looking at emmigrating to NZ, I noticed on the scale that if you have bought a business, or have a job lined up, then the application is many times more likely to be approved. As I have neither, it is more difficult (unless you are a doctor, nurse, engineer or similar). I suppose that if you had a job in London then that made it alot smoother for you (and fair play to you as well).

I always assumed that the Commonwealth counted for something in immigration - like Indians, Aussies, Jamaicans etc would get some preference as former colonies, but I don't think that's the case any more (if it ever was).

One thing's for sure - it remains a very contentious issue here and around the world.
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Walter Hinteler
 
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Reply Fri 10 Oct, 2003 08:48 am
It all depends, from which site you look at a problem ... and how you think, it matters with you, your job or ... if you don't have anthing else to talk with (or no barber, as we say here).

About ten years ago, we got more than 400,000 asylum seekers (legally) here in Germany. Additionally, there were 200,000 legal immigrations from Germans from former Russia plus 300,000 Polish and East European 'tourists' working on farms, brothels etc.

No one complained really.

This changed, when economics went worse. The target, however, are only the asylum seekers, a target (see the US 'problem' with the Mexicans), however, by those, who mostly have nothing to do with them (=living, where you hardly notice any of them) or who are or have even employed them before (e.g. those conservative farmers, where I live).
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