23
   

are "time-out" rooms in schools abuse?

 
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 May, 2009 08:58 pm
@boomerang,
Boom, can you work up a list of stuff on your side to present?

I've noticed in my life that type/print seems to just glom notice.
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 May, 2009 08:59 pm
@boomerang,
Boom, can you work up a list of stuff on your side to present?

I've noticed in my life that type/print seems to just glom notice.

Or, the opposite.
0 Replies
 
Mame
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 May, 2009 09:08 pm
Are there more kids with these issues than before? It seems we're always tiptoeing around children these days. No doubt some of the disruptive children in my classes had ADHD or some other condition, but it didn't seem to be so prevalent. There might have been one per class, if my memory is correct - or maybe that was just how it seemed. Of course, there could have been children with other problems who just didn't act out.

Maybe we should go back to having special classes and special teachers and not make it a stigma. That way, everyone gets educated at their level.

I don't believe teachers today get much instruction in the various afflictions children seem to have; they get an Education degree, not psychology and counselling. I don't think it's fair that they have to deal with diverse disorders AND try and teach school.
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 May, 2009 09:10 pm
@Mame,
I can't say I've an opinion on time out rooms, either. When it turns into solitary confinement, I do.
Mame
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 May, 2009 09:39 pm
@roger,
Agreed.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 May, 2009 11:55 pm
@dyslexia,
dyslexia wrote:

Quote:
Some parents and educators are speaking out against "time-out rooms" at schools, saying they're used too often to discipline kids with behavioral disorders -- and that they harm more than they help.

One autistic eight-year-old in Iowa was left in a small room by herself for three hours after acting out, and her parents have filed a lawsuit against the school district.

When I worked in child protection I told every teacher I came in contact with that I would file abuse charges
if I ever found a child in a "time-out" room.

Point of information:
If u were a teacher and brawling broke out
in your classroom, how 'd u handle the situation ?

This is not a challenge; its an exploratory question.





David
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 May, 2009 11:58 pm
@FreeDuck,
FreeDuck wrote:

Personally, I favor making disruptive children run laps.

What 'd u do if he refuses to do that
and advises u as to where u can jam your head ?
roger
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 May, 2009 12:50 am
@OmSigDAVID,
I suppose you do the same thing as when he tells you where to stick your time out room.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 May, 2009 03:51 am
@roger,
roger wrote:

I suppose you do the same thing
as when he tells you where to stick your time out room.

What is the same thing ?
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 May, 2009 08:43 am
I can't speak about the nature of time-out rooms the US, but I can comment about them in Oz (state of Victoria). I have worked in schools which have had time-out rooms in the past (not such a common thing now) & the requirement was that they be always supervised. (A school could find itself in lots of (legal) strife if students were left unsupervised in a time-out room, in fact just about any place in the school.)
The time-out room was actually used as more of a "chilling out" place for students whose behaviour was considered too unruly, disruptive or aggressive to remain in the classroom. And such behaviour did (& still does) occur. And sometimes a teacher in charge of a class of 25 adolescents simply cannot manage the angry or aggressive student - or more than one student - while also attempting to work with a class of something like 24 other students at the same time. Remember, the teacher is supposed to be teaching, while looking after the well being of the whole class at the same time. A teacher's whole focus can't be directed towards calming down one very angry/aggressive/"acting out" student - for however long it takes. Often, these days, such a student would be sent to the welfare coordinator, the year level coordinator, or even a member of the school administration if the behaviour is serious enough. But I fully support the decision to remove a child (or the children) in such circumstances. And I don't think it reflects badly on the teacher at all. In fact, I think not removing a child who cannot or will not calm down sufficiently to participate in the class without continually disrupting it, is irresponsible.

I have rarely, if ever, seen time-out rooms, or other "disciplinary measures" used to control the behaviour of autistic (or similar) students. (Actually I find myself wondering what sort of an education experience a severely autistic student might actually have in a big class, in a big school.) But if such a child was experiencing serious difficulties in a classroom, the obvious assistance called on would be from the student welfare coodinator, the integration coordinator, or other support staff that know that child's situation best. If some schools, in the US or elsewhere, do not have the appropriate support staff to properly assist such a child, then I believe that the child has been done a grave disservice by being placed in such an environment.

In the 1980s in Victoria (Oz) we experienced (what seemed at the time) the enlightened policy of integrating students with disabilities into mainstream schools. (All varieties of disabilities: physical, intellectual, emotional). The idea was that the "special" institutions (that those students had previously attended) would be closed down & the resources previouslyly used to finance those institutions (including the sale of the buildings) would be redirected into supporting the students in their mainstream experience. This did not happen. Those students were seriously short-changed & mainstream schools often struggled to provide them with an adequate education & social experience. Scandalous. (I am not advocating the reintroduction of "special schools"for students with disabilities. I am merely pointing out that real integration into mainstream schools requires a helluva lot more support & funding than has actually been made available.)
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 May, 2009 08:52 am
(Sorry that that was such a long post. Too much to say!)
Mame
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 May, 2009 09:09 am
@msolga,
There are already "special" schools for those deemed unable or unfit to attend regular school. My sister's niece (on her husband's side) has a child that has severe disabilities and he goes off to "school" 3 days a week. He can't talk, he can't walk, and he would probably gain nothing from going to a regular school.

My niece in the UK has a son with severe Asperger's, among other things, and her other son also has enough disabilities (don't quite know what they are) that she decided to home school. You could loosely term her home a "special" school.

And then there are what we here call "alternate" schools, for kids who decided not to continue in regular school. They may have had drug or alcohol problems, run-ins with the law, or just didn't fit in with the rest of their peers. They attend when they want and work at their own pace.

So, not everyone fits into the little boxes we make, and there's nothing wrong with special schools. If you hired a couple of teachers who received training in various learning disabilities, there'd be a higher likelihood of these kids actually learning something, achieving some goals, than sticking them into a world they don't fit into.

Segregation is not always a negative thing.
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 May, 2009 09:26 am
@Mame,
You may be right, I'm really not sure about that, Mame. It's just that many of the "special schools" have been closed down here, now. I have heard parents argue that their children were actually better off in the special schools. From what I've seen myself, some students (though not all) have been short-changed by the mainstream experience. But the big "enlightened" integration experience here in the 1980s was closely followed by worsening teaching conditions (bigger classes & also increased workloads for teachers). Not exactly the best of circumstances for an ambitious integration program to happen! Integration has been seen by many here as being part of a rationalization process of resources. Very unfair to the students involved.
Mame
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 May, 2009 09:46 am
@msolga,
It's one thing to include a child who is physically handicapped (in a wheelchair, say) and quite another to include one who has severe mental disabilities who can't really participate in class. If that child is disruptive to the point that learning for the majority is impaired, then that child should be elsewhere. That's the way it is in the adult world, and they may as well learn that as children.

It's simply not fair to compromise the learning of 30 students for the sake of 1.

Edit: Not to mention the stresses on the teacher.
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 May, 2009 10:02 am
@Mame,
I actually agree with much of what you say, Mame, as you would have read in my big post above. (Once again,speaking from personal experience in schools) but many parents here are very anxious for their (disabled) students to have the mainstream experience ... & some do tend to blame teachers when things don't go as they'd hoped. As for the "degree" of "mental disability" that schools should be able to successfully accomodate ... who is to decide what's too severe? And how should such decisions be made? Schools have very little say - it's government policy in state schools. I have certainly seen children who I believe are gaining very little (educationally, socially) from the mainstream experience ... & I've also seen quite stressed teachers trying to accomodate a wide range of abilities & behaviours in their classrooms.
Mame
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 May, 2009 10:05 am
@msolga,
Yeah, I know we're on the same page Smile And I agree - who decides when a person is "too severely disabled"? It's a tough call.
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 May, 2009 10:18 am
@Mame,
You know, Mame, at the same time that many of students with disabilities were "liberated" from their institutions into mainstream schools here ..... adults with quite severe mental disabilities were, too. Now many of them live very precarious lives, are homeless, live on the streets or in decrepid boarding houses ..... many of their institutions (protected housing & work situations) have vanished (sold off) , too. I have real problems with the reality that many of them are now far more vulnerable & "at risk" than they were before .... Sigh.
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 May, 2009 10:34 am
(Sorry for the lengthy digression. You can all continue with the discussion about time-out rooms & abuse, now ....)
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 May, 2009 07:18 am
This seclusion room is where a 13 year old boy hung himself. Officials say it is no longer in use. According to Tuesday's report by the Government Accountability Office, more special education teachers than once thought are crossing the line between discipline and child abuse. The GAO found that there were not only no federal laws that determined appropriate use of seclusion or restraints, but also that state laws varied widely. There is also no entity, government or otherwise, who is responsible for keeping track of the types of seclusion or restraints or the possible abuse of these methods.

The GAO did find, however, hundreds of cases from the last twenty years that pointed to alleged child abuse and even death due to the misuse of restraints and seclusion. Most of the time, however, little is done for the teachers or the students who have suffered. In fact, out of ten cases in which a sentence was handed down (either a conviction, a finding of liability, or a large monetary settlement) teachers from five of those cases continue to teach. Here are some examples of these cases:

A 14-year-old boy with PTSD (Post Traumatic Stress Disorder) was held face down on the floor by a teacher who was 100 lbs heavier than the student. The student died. What did the student do to deserve this? He would not stay seated in class. While the death was ruled a homicide, the teacher was never indicted and now teaches in another state.

A volunteer teacher's aid in Florida gagged and duct-taped five children aged five and six years old for misbehaving. Not only was the aide on probation for burglary and cocaine possession, but the school had no records indicating that they ran a background check on him. He pled guilty to false imprisonment and battery.

A 13-year-old Georgia boy hung himself after being left in seclusion for hours at a time. At last check, the state is still trying to decide if the case has enough merit to go before a jury.

Many special education teachers insist that there are appropriate uses of both seclusion and restraints, especially in the case where a child is going to harm himself or others in the room. The problem is, that none of the ten cases that the GAO highlights in their report involved a violent child.

Dr. Roger Pierangelo (Executive Director for the National Association of Special Education Teachers) says that Teachers have not been trained to handle the large influx of children with special needs. The United States is educating more that a half million more special needs students than it did just ten years ago. "When you have an out-of-control student threatening your class -- it's not right and it can be very damaging -- but seclusion is used as a 'quick fix' in many cases." he says.

Part of the problem has been that the general public doesn't even know that these methods are being used in the classrooms. Hopefully, shedding some light on these situations will move the public to action.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 May, 2009 09:24 am
@dyslexia,
dyslexia wrote:

This seclusion room is where a 13 year old boy hung himself. Officials say it is no longer in use. According to Tuesday's report by the Government Accountability Office, more special education teachers than once thought are crossing the line between discipline and child abuse. The GAO found that there were not only no federal laws that determined appropriate use of seclusion or restraints,
[as if there were a jurisdictional predicate for federal control of this]

but also that state laws varied widely. There is also no entity, government or otherwise, who is responsible for keeping track of the types of seclusion or restraints or the possible abuse of these methods.

The GAO did find, however, hundreds of cases from the last twenty years that pointed to alleged child abuse and even death due to the misuse of restraints and seclusion. Most of the time, however, little is done for the teachers or the students who have suffered. In fact, out of ten cases in which a sentence was handed down (either a conviction, a finding of liability, or a large monetary settlement) teachers from five of those cases continue to teach. Here are some examples of these cases:

A 14-year-old boy with PTSD (Post Traumatic Stress Disorder) was held face down on the floor by a teacher who was 100 lbs heavier than the student. The student died. What did the student do to deserve this? He would not stay seated in class. While the death was ruled a homicide, the teacher was never indicted and now teaches in another state.

A volunteer teacher's aid in Florida gagged and duct-taped five children aged five and six years old for misbehaving. Not only was the aide on probation for burglary and cocaine possession, but the school had no records indicating that they ran a background check on him. He pled guilty to false imprisonment and battery.

A 13-year-old Georgia boy hung himself after being left in seclusion for hours at a time. At last check, the state is still trying to decide if the case has enough merit to go before a jury.

Many special education teachers insist that there are appropriate uses of both seclusion and restraints, especially in the case where a child is going to harm himself or others in the room. The problem is, that none of the ten cases that the GAO highlights in their report involved a violent child.

Dr. Roger Pierangelo (Executive Director for the National Association of Special Education Teachers) says that Teachers have not been trained to handle the large influx of children with special needs. The United States is educating more that a half million more special needs students than it did just ten years ago. "When you have an out-of-control student threatening your class -- it's not right and it can be very damaging -- but seclusion is used as a 'quick fix' in many cases." he says.

Part of the problem has been that the general public doesn't even know that these methods are being used in the classrooms. Hopefully, shedding some light on these situations will move the public to action.


Don 't u wish to cite the source of this article?

Several years ago, the chief judge of a court with which I have had some familiarity,
informed all the judges that an unsuccessful litigant in that court had committed suicide,
after sending the chief judge a denunciatory note. The judge who had presided over
the bench trial in question had taken this news unduely emotionally and personally.
(He described himself, an Italian, as being an emotional fellow.) He took some time off.
I subsequently pointed out to him, on his return that your decision in a bench trial
(where u don 't have a jury to help u by deciding the relevant facts) must be rendered
upon the merits of the case whose facts and law r before u for adjudication,
not on your prediction of how well a litigant will take your decision.


I reminded him that people have been committing suicide since long b4 he was born;
litigants do not necessarity need him to motivate them to suicide.
I consoled him that the fact that he had been the presiding judge
at trial is not necessarily going to keep anyone alive who chooses otherwise.
(Indeed, a trial judgette formerly of my acquaintance, was presiding over another trial,
one of whose litigants hanged herself in the ladies room during trial.
Litigation can be stressful both upon trial counsel and litigants.)


I pointed out that he had no way of knowing what went on
between the decedent 's ears during his final moments.
I was of opinion that suicides are preferable to what befell
Judge Richard Daronco in 1988, who was assassinated
in his backyard by the father of a dissatisfied litigant.
In the case to which u have cited of the 13 year old boy
who hanged himself, presumably it fell to the teacher
to decide whether there was a need to separate him from
the other students, depending upon what was going on.
It might be possible that the boy needed to be held under observation,
but that is a lot easier to determine in hindsight, in fairness to the teacher.






David
0 Replies
 
 

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