9
   

Philosophy of love

 
 
Reply Sun 17 May, 2009 03:23 pm
I've been thinking various things about this, and it's all very watery so I'm putting it on here to try and solidify it.

I'm talking about love in a romantic sense, but also a 'love for the world.'
Bertrand Russell once said, 'love is wise, hatred is foolish.'
I'm wondering what relation this has to 'the self'. (Fresco/JL!)
Surely, if you think of yourself as a unified whole, separate from others and separate from the world, then to 'love' extends this self outwards, whereas to hate re-enforces a one-sided, 'subjective' position.
Does this concept of love relate to non-attachment?

If this 'love' for the world is as profound as I think the implications are, then could love between two people (who think dualistically) in the romantic sense be this profound realisation 'manifest' or 'objectified' thus why it is so important to most human life?
How would a non-dualist 'love' in a romantic sense? Surely phrases such as 'I love you' or more importantly 'I do' are rendered meaningless. Wink

I have read/been told on numerous occasions about love being central to wisdom, and each time thought it was pure sentimentalism and instantly dismissed it until I thought about it in this sense.

If anyone could help sharpen this up I would appreciate it.
pq x

  • Topic Stats
  • Top Replies
  • Link to this Topic
Type: Discussion • Score: 9 • Views: 5,196 • Replies: 106
No top replies

 
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 May, 2009 05:01 pm
@The Pentacle Queen,
You are correct in your concept of non-attachment.

Krihnamurti wrote,
Quote:
Where there is love, self is not


This is implies transcendence of everyday language of the form "I love A".
Such language is evoked by transitory events. "Wisdom" is awareness of that.
Ashers
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 May, 2009 05:16 pm
@The Pentacle Queen,
There's a loose analogy that is sometimes made between the process of life and the relationship with ego that is connected with feedback systems and it is that of a thermostat. So with a thermostat there are boundaries at which the heating is turned on/off, over a temperature/under etc. This is a self regulating system, moving back and forth because of the boundaries.

Ego slips in as it were, as the question of current state and desired state. As the system checks whether the temperature is too cold, the perspective has to be from I am state x and the goal is x + 1, likewise checking for too high a temperature implies I am state x and the goal is state x -1.

Non dualistically I think the point is that such perspectives are relative to the whole process. Love seems most often associated with the dissolution of boundaries. Although I suspect most people who have spent time observing the ego would suggest declarations of love are usually enclosed in further boundaries, i.e. love OF something. Really it seems more like a game, especially from a non dualist perspective. Games always have boundaries, even if only implicit agreements. In that sense, if love is seeing the process rather than the part, it seems like an ingenious move.
The Pentacle Queen
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 May, 2009 05:33 pm
@fresco,
What exactly are you implying by 'transitory events?'
That time is unified in the same way we are unified?

I am glad I am on the right track.
Before I had thought of this track I would have looked at that statement and thought of it as naive sentimentality. I am glad I now have a better form of understanding.
In this case, both hatred and 'conditional love' are forms of attachment? But 'love of the world' is non-attachment. Is there a better term for this type of love?
How would we define it? If it is possible to?


spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 May, 2009 05:41 pm
There is a need for tumesence.
The Pentacle Queen
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 May, 2009 05:53 pm
@spendius,
Lovely, spendy.
0 Replies
 
Kenson
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 May, 2009 05:57 pm
@The Pentacle Queen,
Follow the way of love

If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.

If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love, I gain nothing.

Love is patient, love is kind.
It does not envy,
it does not boast,
it is not proud.
It is not rude,
it is not self-seeking,
it is not easily angered,
it keeps no record of wrongs.
Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth.
It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

Love never fails. when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears.
When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me.

And now these three remain:
faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.
0 Replies
 
The Pentacle Queen
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 May, 2009 06:02 pm
@Ashers,
Quote:
Love seems most often associated with the dissolution of boundaries.


Could you explain that a bit further, Ashers, please?

fresco
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 May, 2009 11:34 pm
@The Pentacle Queen,
pq,

"Events" are defined by "selves" (little me's) who see their world in idiosyncratic terms. But "selves" are ephemeral and constantly changing. Wisdom comes from experiencing this, not simply understanding it intellectually.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 May, 2009 11:59 am
"The love of a thing consists in the understanding of its perfections."

Spinoza.

And, obviously, at the risk of being declared homophobic, knowing what those perfections are not.
The Pentacle Queen
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 May, 2009 12:08 pm
@spendius,
Can we understand perfections? What are perfections, really?
Francis
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 May, 2009 12:17 pm
@The Pentacle Queen,
In the absolute, just some concordance between an external element and your own concept of "ideal"..

Nothing that one can rely on..
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 May, 2009 02:13 pm
@Francis,
For sure Francis. How can we expect real perfection when large industries are dependent upon imperfections which they can exaggerate by suggestion?

Further-imperfection can be reduced by encouragement.

"Baby can't be blessed
Till she
sees
finalee
that she's
just like all the rest
with her fog, her amphetamines and her pearls."
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 May, 2009 05:04 pm
I think Francis is thinking of Dulcinea.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 May, 2009 05:51 pm
@The Pentacle Queen,
The Pentacle Queen wrote:

Can we understand perfections? What are perfections, really?

Perfections are 100% pure conservations of the ideal -- that which is
most to be desired in the subject matter, devoid of any liberalism;
i.e., devoid of any deviation from that ideal.





David
0 Replies
 
The Pentacle Queen
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 May, 2009 05:56 pm
@fresco,
Fresco.
What would you say it means to 'like' something?
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 May, 2009 07:04 pm

To like something is to approve of it,
or to enjoy having it, like an abundance of cash
or an exceptionally flavorful pastry.

If u approve of it enuf,
or enjoy having it enuf,
then u LOVE it.





David
0 Replies
 
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 May, 2009 11:10 pm
@The Pentacle Queen,
pq,

When you think about it "liking" is always a communication to others, never to "self". It is the report of what gives limited pleasure.
0 Replies
 
Francis
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 May, 2009 12:23 am
Spendi, in a moment of extraordinary clairvoyance wrote:
I think Francis is thinking of Dulcinea.


A pertinent thought, Spendi, I'd say.

I'm always thinking of Dulcinea but, alas, I hardly can get there with my Rocinante..
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 May, 2009 01:56 am


I am perfectly free and able to like something
without communicating that sentiment to any others.





David
 

Related Topics

How can we be sure? - Discussion by Raishu-tensho
DOES NOTHING EXIST??? - Question by mark noble
Proof of nonexistence of free will - Discussion by litewave
morals and ethics, how are they different? - Question by existential potential
Destroy My Belief System, Please! - Discussion by Thomas
Star Wars in Philosophy. - Discussion by Logicus
Existence of Everything. - Discussion by Logicus
Is it better to be feared or loved? - Discussion by Black King
 
  1. Forums
  2. » Philosophy of love
Copyright © 2018 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.03 seconds on 09/20/2018 at 03:59:51