5
   

Are people who believe in God “weaker” than people who don’t?

 
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 May, 2009 09:52 am
@Setanta,
Quote:
This is a typical, and pathetic thread. Every so often, we have someone come along who attempts to suggest that religious believers are stupid, and stupid precisely because they are religious believers. Was Augustine of Hippo stupid? Was Pythagoras stupid? Was William of Occam stupid?

If atheists and agnostics want to make themselves feel better by proclaiming all religious people to be stupid, they may help themselves. And i, an atheist all my adult life, and a despiser of the very stupid people whom make a religion of their atheism, will always protest at the stupidity of this point of view.


Well said Set. I agree wholeheartedly.

I put it down to them having an inferiority complex and thus a need to continually be asserting that other people are stupid. They give atheism, a respectable belief system, a bad name and it's about time that an intelligent atheist disowned them.
0 Replies
 
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 May, 2009 09:56 am
@Setanta,
FROM YAHOO ANWERS.
Quote:
Science has shown atheists have a higher intelligence than people with a strong religious faith. The difference is 5.8 points according to findings in developmental psychology!!!

More members of the "intellectual elite" considered themselves atheists than the national average.

Only 7 percent of members of the American National Academy of Sciences believed in God. Whilst only 3.3 percent believed in God in the UK’s Royal Society.

Several Gallup poll studies of the general population have shown that those with higher IQ’s tend not to believe in God."




However this thread is about "weakness" not IQ .
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 May, 2009 09:57 am
You kn0w, Bill, there is an hilarious irony here that i'm sure escapes you entirely. You are attempting to argue that people who believe in god are intellectually "weaker" than people who don't (in case you've forgotten, that's the thesis of this thread). Yet you are yourself barely able to construct a coherent sentence, and the sentences you do write often can only be deciphered by careful reading. You misspell words and conjugate English verbs incorrectly in a chronic manner. Misspellings are common to the speakers of any language, but the incidence of such misspellings is low--far lower than is the case with you. Furthermore, for all that people with a good command of their native language may occasionally conjugate a verb incorrectly, it is extremely rare. You commonly conjugate verbs incorrectly, and usually the problem is that the verb forms don't agree in number with the subject.

It's really hard to take seriously this kind of criticism from someone who expresses himself so badly in what one assumes to be his native language. Do yourself a favor, and claim that English is not your mother tongue.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 May, 2009 09:58 am
Leaving aside the undeniable fact that "IQ" has never been shown to reliably either describe intelligence nor predict performance, Fresco, i would appreciate it if you took care not to present your posts in a manner which makes it appear that you are quoting me, when in fact you are not.
aidan
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 May, 2009 10:03 am
@fresco,
Fresco said:
Quote:
However this thread is about "weakness" not IQ .


Yes, but EP qualified his definition of 'weaker', thus:
Quote:
When I say “weaker” in the question, I am referring to people’s mental or cognitive abilities, and how it would seem that people who don’t believe in God have better cognitive abilities than people who do


which would indicate that he was interpreting weaker as encompassing or consisting of lower intelligence (or lesser cognitive abilities).
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 May, 2009 10:04 am
@Setanta,
Setanta,

I have no idea what you mean. I responded to your "no reason" post and by giving a convincing reason accepted by others. If you chose to reject it that's fine.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 May, 2009 10:05 am
@fresco,
I don't reject the content, Fresco, i am complaining of your ineptitude in quoting Yahoo in such a manner that might lead the unwary to think that you are quoting me.
0 Replies
 
aidan
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 May, 2009 10:06 am
@Setanta,
Quote:
You kn0w, Bill, there is an hilarious irony here that i'm sure escapes you entirely. You are attempting to argue that people who believe in god are intellectually "weaker" than people who don't (in case you've forgotten, that's the thesis of this thread). Yet you are yourself barely able to construct a coherent sentence, and the sentences you do write often can only be deciphered by careful reading. You misspell words and conjugate English verbs incorrectly in a chronic manner. Misspellings are common to the speakers of any language, but the incidence of such misspellings is low--far lower than is the case with you. Furthermore, for all that people with a good command of their native language may occasionally conjugate a verb incorrectly, it is extremely rare. You commonly conjugate verbs incorrectly, and usually the problem is that the verb forms don't agree in number with the subject.

This doesn't necessarily indicate lack of intelligence. People who do this often have a written language disability, which while impacting their ability to write- has no latent basis in or is not an indication of lack of raw intelligence.
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 May, 2009 10:09 am
@aidan,
aidan,

Point taken, but I don't agree with the narrowing of the definition in terms of "cognitive ability". We've already extensively discussed the intelligence-atheism correlation on another thread which I will dig out shortly.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 May, 2009 10:10 am
@fresco,
But to respond further to your post, the statistics you provide still do not provide me any reason to assume that intelligence can be inferred from theism, or the lack thereof.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 May, 2009 10:12 am
@aidan,
Leaving aside my disgust with anyone who uses the noun impact as a verb, i will simply ask you what it is that you think "raw intelligence" is supposed to mean. As for Bill, i have a long experience of him which convinces me that he has no basis to claim that he is any brighter than your average high-school educated holy roller.
aidan
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 May, 2009 10:16 am
@fresco,
Fresco: This is the part of his thesis I reject. It implies that he knows how the 'average believer' (which is an interesting concept in and of itself- does the average believer even exist?) engages, learns, and processes information.
Quote:
The average religious believer, who goes to church every Sunday and reads a bit of the Bible every evening etc, does not really engage with what they believe in, in a way that “exercises” their cognitive abilities. Rather, they are fed this belief system or world-view and they passively absorb it into their minds, to the point where it is not questioned.

Now, in the case of people who have better cognitive abilities, such people don’t simply passively absorb information thoughtlessly, rather they have the ability to engaged and critically question the information that they receive


I remember the thread of which you're speaking. I don't have a problem with that data. I just have an issue with someone trying to quanitfy and measure something that cannot be quanified and measured.
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 May, 2009 10:16 am
@Setanta,
Okay. I apologize for the posting style.

Here's the "Atheists smarter...?" thread.
http://able2know.org/topic/90688-1
0 Replies
 
aidan
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 May, 2009 10:25 am
@Setanta,
Quote:
Leaving aside my disgust with anyone who uses the noun impact as a verb, i will simply ask you what it is that you think "raw intelligence" is supposed to mean. As for Bill, i have a long experience of him which convinces me that he has no basis to claim that he is any brighter than your average high-school educated holy roller.

Jesus, you get disgusted easily - and I believe impact is a verb, and I will continue to use it that way because I LIKE that word as a verb. It packs a punch!
It sounds right as a verb (to me) you do whatever you like though.

Anyway....I don't have any experience of Bill outside of what I read on this forum, so I won't even try to assess his intelligence or lack of it - I can't.
There are many aspects of intelligence, Setanta - the ability to write grammatically may not be indicative of anything more than the ability to write grammatically. By the same token, a problem in that area may not be indicative of anything else but a problem in that area.

0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 May, 2009 10:39 am
@aidan,
LOL Aidan maybe you could be kind enough to read over my badly written postings and point out to my poor intellect where I question the intelligent of any true believer in any regard?

I had cheerfully question the sanity of true believers however where does that related to intelligent?

Off hand I can think of a numbers of super-geniuses that was clearly insane in the history of this world.

I know it is my fault for not writing more clearly and not you’re for trying to find some grounds to attack me either personally or by misquoting me.


fresco
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 May, 2009 10:52 am
@aidan,
aidan,

I don't have an issue with that quotation above. I point I made earlier concerned whether ep's Dawkins advocate had "a case" and I argued to the contrary based on a concept of "weakness of personality".

Setanta,

My views on why I think there is a correlation between "cognitive ability" and atheism are expressed in that earlier thread, which I consider to be tangential to a concept of "weakness"

IMO, "strength" corresponds well with Heidegger's "authenticity" which involves a constant questioning of a person's "framework of existence". When that questioning ceases, dogma take over, and that is where "weakness" resides.
aidan
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 May, 2009 10:55 am
@BillRM,
Bill - now I'm really confused. What have I written that leads you to believe that I'm trying to find some grounds to attack you or where have I misquoted you?

I don't remember quoting anything you've said at all.

I think you may be reading my post where I quoted Setanta reacting to your postings. Maybe you thought that I had said those things. I didn't. I just replied to Setanta's post and quoted him in my post- but I forgot to write: Setanta said first.
Maybe that's where the confusion lies.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 May, 2009 10:58 am
@Setanta,
Setanta for your information the IQ tests I had taken over the years had recorded an IQ in the range of 128 to 130. Rougtly 2 SD above the mean.

I can hardly get into Mensa with that score but it still not all that bad.

All of which is beside the point as I never did quesion anyone intellignet on this thread or others just how sane they are or are not.

There is no known collation between IQ and mental health that my poor low level intellect is aware of.

Perhaps someone such as yourself with a genus IQ could expand on such a relationship for us?
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 May, 2009 11:05 am
@aidan,
Sorry Aidan my low functioning intellect resulted in confusing your postings wiht our friend Setanta.

I will try to be more careful in the future.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 May, 2009 11:50 am
@fresco,
I would be interested to know, then, Fresco, if you would apply that sense of cognitive weakness to Pythagoras, Augustine of Hippo and William of Occam.
 

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