Army Guy Softener Solution Help

Reply Sat 21 Mar, 2009 07:38 pm
Hello everyone !

I have a 3 bed, 2 bath house with 3 residents. We have 2 multi shower head shower panels and a large tub in the master bath. We are all in the army and have some pretty weird schedules so I was seriously considering a twin tank system. I know they are rarely needed but when 3 people plus intermittent guests who work rotating shifts live in the same house I think that may be the exception : )

I ordered a water test and am waiting for it in the mail but I checked online and my zone of Albuquerque, NM has approximate hardness of 10 gpg and .01 ppm iron. I checked the flow rate of the tub spouts and they are 12 gpm. The sinks are around 2 gpm.

I was looking at the mid to high range fleck 9100 sxt systems in order to support flow rate.

On a side note I think I will have to install the system in the house as the main water shut off valve is underneath the bathroom sink, sigh.

Any guidance would be greatly appreciated and I will do my best to fill in any information I may have left out, thanks in advance for any help that may be provided, John
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Andy CWS
Reply Sun 22 Mar, 2009 08:31 am
I think the twin tank is the way to go. I will provide benefits that single tank system cannot. Kinetico and Hague also make twin tanks: Kinetico's are non-electric and have twice the warranty of the Fleck unit.

You iron and hardness will not be a challenge and twin tank system are high efficiency units. If you need more info or specs, let me know.

Andy Christensen, CWS-II
Reply Sun 22 Mar, 2009 05:36 pm
Thanks for the prompt reply Andy ! Usually I am just a forum lurker, it's encouraging to get a response so quickly especially on such a long question / post / involved topic.

On the water side I did a little more research and it turns out my hardness is closer to 13 or 14 gpg with a ph of 6.5 - 7.5 , I am still waiting on a water test to determine it exactly in addition to other parameters, but from what I've read by the time I get a large enough system to handle my suspected flow rate; like you said it should be more than capable of handling that ( I think !)

I will look into Kinetico systems but from the looks of it they are dealer sold only and I am pretty set on getting a product that I can install and repair myself. I know some people say the Clacks are easier to work on but I'm pretty sure they don't make twin tank units and I'm handy enough to repair a Fleck etc.

A small question; I haven't found any real information on turbulators other than that they are a commonly offered option. Anyone have an opinion on the benefit of a media stirring turbulator ? BTW "turbulator" is just fun to say.

I suppose my biggest question now is the softener systems sustainable SFR. Aside from the valve / control head and inlet / outlet plumbing it primarily appears to be a function of tank diameter and resin volume; which makes sense since that will determine contact time. Product distributors seem to have a wide variation in reported system SFR even in nearly identical systems. Additionally I can't help but wonder just how much SFR a system would need if both tubs were running @ approx 12 gpm each. Is it a one to one where two 12 gpm tubs need 24+ system sfr or is more or less leeway needed ? And as a result of that how bad is it if a system is a little oversized for the daily demand other than increased initial cost ? The systems I have found that advert SFR in that range are in the 64,000 - 96,000 grain per tank range (is that even close to being right ? )

Of course if I am missing anything here please let me know, I prefer constructive criticism to failure, I am in the Army after all : ) That being said I realize that some regular posters of these forums do sell systems and I would much prefer to support someone with reasonably priced equipment and helpful / relaible advice and service than a no name, no help anonymous corporation if feasible.

Thanks again for any and all help !
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Reply Tue 24 Mar, 2009 10:29 am

Andy is one of the good guys here - you're in good hands.
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Reply Tue 24 Mar, 2009 01:01 pm
Cool thanks H2O man !

A side note update for anyone interested. Since I'm looking at installing this in my house I wanted a way to link it to my alarm system and shut of the main house water supply in the event of a leak, flood, etc. I do some alarm work on the side so I tracked down some different water sensor detector sytems and most of them were either slow, expensive, or both. I decided to go with the Waterbug 200 or 350 the sensors detect as little as just a film of water and have pretty fast response times. Their output can be linked to something like a taco zone control electronic ball valve as long as you use a relay in between the signal output and the main power supply. They can also be used wirelessly with an ademco system by running their output to something like an ademco 5817 or 5816. Temperature sensors and other variations can also be found if your worried about freezing and other stuff.

If anyone wants more info please let me know, it took me a while to track down all the specs as the vendors don't really like to share so I figured I'd make it easier for the next guy.

Hopefully I'll figure this SFR thing out soon.

Take care everyone !
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Reply Wed 25 Mar, 2009 10:54 am
@Andy CWS,
Hey Andy,

I didn't know if I was supposed to reply to you directly or to the topic / post in general so I put my reply in the overall topic / post. I hope I'm not bothering you, if so let me know, and thanks again for your help !

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Reply Thu 26 Mar, 2009 11:17 am
A minor update, it turns out you can't use a taco zone valve or similar as they are designed for closed systems not open systems like your house supply. I called the taco tech line and they said the increased oxygen in an open system results in the zincification and corrosion of the valve so my search continues, for both sfr and a quality normally closed ball valve.
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Reply Sat 4 Apr, 2009 02:59 pm
I called Taco again and an open system valve is in the works but has no ETA. I've decided to buy one anyway and see if i can attach the actuator portion to a stainless steel ball valve body as the valve stem should be the same and this would be an ideal solution. There are indeed other companies like valworx that make products that do the same thing but they cost like 600 $ instead of 80 $ I think the coolest thing about the Taco EBV is that it knows its valve position and turns off the motor while maintaining valve state so you have low current draw and no motor burn out.

I did a minor flow rate experiment; instead of checking one tub and doubling it i checked both at the same time and although one tub wide open has a flow rate of 12 gpm both tubs wide open only adds up to 20 gpm which is great news as it is a lot easier to find a system to support that peak sfr as opposed to peak sfr of 24 gpm.

I'm still having some trouble tracking down hard sfr numbers for systems but am making slow progress. It is too bad that most distributors have no standard for accurate disclosure of system sfr.
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