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the Jon Stewart/Jim Cramer dust-up

 
 
Robert Gentel
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 14 Mar, 2009 04:57 pm
I can't stand either of these two. Jim Cramer's show is a joke, but Jon Stewart's shameless use of strategic moral outrage and attacks against other TV shows for his show's ratings is lame. He's perfected the art of picking fights with other TV personalities for publicity.

And he's the most annoying kind of armchair quarterback, he nit-picks against the showmanship of others, saying they aren't serious enough but that he can do those very same things because his show is a comedy show. He plays media critic until someone points out that all that strategic outrage he lets loose is usually stuff he himself is also guilty of, and then he plays the comedy card saying his show is just entertainment and doesn't have to be held to the same standards he so rudely attacks others for.

Then after baiting them into responding, and providing publicity for his show he tries to pretend it's nothing personal against them, and apologize for attacking them under the guise of it not really being about them personally but some greater purpose. He'll say it wasn't really about Cramer but the whole financial industry.

What a load of ****, it's about his ratings and he's just leveraging public sentiment to pick easy fights to draw attention to himself. I'm sick of these kinds of partisan hacks. I don't care that Stewart's politics are closer to mine than Rush Limbaugh he's a thoughtless ideologue just like him, and these folk who are using politics to succeed as entertainers reduce the pressing issues of our day into stupid ratings games.
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Mar, 2009 05:14 pm
@Robert Gentel,
yes I'm sure there are those that take Jon Stewart seriously as well as those to hang on every word of Jim Cramer.
0 Replies
 
Robert Gentel
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Mar, 2009 05:16 pm
@ehBeth,
ehBeth wrote:
Plenty of economists did see it coming and did write about it. For whatever U.S. media reason, they weren't the economists who got the coverage.


Who did you have in mind? Most of the ones that I know of were folk who always scream that the sky is falling, and that the sky now is falling are seemingly vindicated though I think it's more like a stopped clock being right twice a day through serendipity.

I'd be interested in reading the predictions of people who were actually sounding real, specific alarm bells (e.g. that Bear Sterns was really in that precarious a spot), not just general economic theory (e.g. the general trade deficit folk) that they feel is validated through this crisis. I'm wading through a lot of hacks who are getting a moment in the spotlight playing the "I told you so" card but that don't really seem to have gotten anything very specific right.

I'm sure there were some out there, but I'm not finding a lot and would appreciate any tips you may have on where to find more.
Thomas
 
  2  
Reply Sat 14 Mar, 2009 10:29 pm
@ehBeth,
ehBeth wrote:
Not sexy enough? not funny enough? not enough sucking up to advertisers? they were out there - they were writing about it,and continue to write about the problems with the U.S. and world economy.

Too shrill and unbalanced. At least that was the staple slur against Paul Krugman.
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Mar, 2009 10:40 pm
@Thomas,
I cannot quote who...but I was very aware...was about to move my super (hard to find time etc do these things when they are open!) into the "safe" (????) portfolio when it hit.

As far as I am aware many were talking about it, and predicting the world economy being pulled down by America's foolishness.

But..perhaps this was just the normal doomsayers, as opposed to the specific doomsayers?


I don't know...but I have never planned to move my retirement savings before.

Whether it would have done any good is a whole other matter.
talk72000
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Mar, 2009 12:44 am
@maporsche,
Here at A2K we had been forecasting that the economy was going to tank even during GWB's first term. To prevent a collapse, GWB deliberately kept interest rates low and created a real estate housing bubble by promoting home ownership. Look in the Finance topics.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Mar, 2009 07:41 am
@Robert Gentel,
However, Stewarts dust-ups were always topical and, using comedy as a delivery means, has been tried since Will Rogers. Being able to market that is genius. Stewarts "business model" is craftily constructed and he does it best of any at this time. Besides giving us an enjoyable half hour, what does he owe you?
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Mar, 2009 07:50 am
@Robert Gentel,
I'll find out if the guy from the seminar I went to will share his power point. I honestly didn't take that many notes. Just nodded as I occasionally recognized the names on the articles he was showing us.
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Mar, 2009 09:26 am
@farmerman,
Stewart manages to get better guests who actually have done something like writing an intelligent book along with celebrity guests who are in movies of dubious quality. Although not all of the right-wing conservatives who don't write that many books will be a guest on his show knowing he's going to make fun of them, it's really because he asks questions and gives a reason for the question that can make them stutter, or, at least, visibly wilt. Stewart was again fencing with a sharpened epee and drawing blood, while the guest was stuck with a pocket fisherman with no hook.
0 Replies
 
hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Mar, 2009 09:48 am
from what i've seen , the economists and business people urging caution were usually the quiet - perhaps even bookish - types . and who wants to listen to a boring lecture when someone else gives "exitement" .

i compare it to the "TV PREACHERS" who are shouting , screaming , crying ... that's what many people want nowadays - not many people are attracted to the quakers and other quiet religious groups ("not sexy enough" as ehbeth wrote" ) .

or look at the guy selling those SHAM-WHAM cleaning cloths on TV . he recently merited a write-up in the business pages because of his extremely successful selling method .
people buy his stuff not because they KNOW that his product is superior but because he knows how to CONVINCE the viewer that it is superior - no proof needed .

imo larry kudlow and others fall into the same category : people listen to them - and many follow their advice - not because listeners actually know that these guys have superior knowledge , but they are sucked in by their "selling" methods .

the old slogan "there is a sucker born every minute" is still valid today .
of course we know that it is usually the other one who is the sucker , because we are listening to the TRUE prophet , the KNOWLEDGABLE financial adviser , the HONEST sham-wham salesman ...

i'm sure following the pied-piper is inbred into human nature - it never seems to change - even over centuries .
hbg





Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Mar, 2009 10:32 am
@hamburger,
Smile SHAM-WHAM, thank you mame. (It's Sham Wow)

The product or those like has been out there for so many years -- I remember running across it at the Orange County Swap Meet in the 80's. It's that people forget it isn't any better than a thick terry cloth towel and is way over priced. Sound familiar? The hucksters sell us a money product that's actually overpriced but it goes up in value enough to hang onto, due to the specialists in the investment market and especially the stock market driving up the price. Then they dump everything to divert it into cash, take their huge profits, and leave the small investor hanging out to dry (much like a wet Sham Wow). This time around, besides individual specialist investors, there were a bevy of investment banks, funds, financial advisors and the rest competing to take your money. A lot of it was taken on real estate and a lot of real estate was bought for investment. They knew a presidential election means the investors get shaky and along with other indicators, they did a pretty good job of getting away with it. Their timing was, and always will be, a little off so more money was lost by the major investors, especially those run by committees, slow to listen and slow to act.

It's not Sham Wow, it's Sham, than POW!
hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Mar, 2009 11:02 am
@Lightwizard,
perhaps it was really a SHAM-WHAM that many fell for - it's not unknown , is it ?
there was INSTANT gratification - while it lasted ... Shocked Wink
hbg
hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Mar, 2009 11:04 am
@Lightwizard,
the SHAM man :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vince_Offer

Quote:
Vince Offer (born Vincent Offer Schlomi on April 25, 1964) is a writer, director, and comedian best known as the owner and pitchman of two sold-on-TV products: ShamWow! absorbent towels and the Slap Chop food chopper
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Mar, 2009 11:15 am
@hamburger,
For the ordinary investor in 401 K or any investment shelter, it's painful to chock money into the market after being told by the Suzie Ormand's that you have to do it even if you miss it at the time and it and live at a lower financial standard of life. Just put it in and leave it there. Fahget 'bout it for ten or twenty years. Well, now if you've made the very low interest you'd have earned in a bank savings account, you're lucky. If you listened to the advice of the financial Sham Wow Zis Boom Bah guys, you're suddenly on the loosing team. Oh, you can listen to them maybe 20% of the time for advice but an independent investment manager is will the best -- Amertrade or Charles Schwab is really adequate. BTW, did you know there's a Schwab Bank?
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Mar, 2009 01:22 pm
A wise man once said "never give a sucker an even break and never ever wizen up a chump"
Here is another video that backs up Stewart on hedge funds.
http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232?video=1054574853
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Mar, 2009 02:06 pm
@Gelisgesti,
For sure those hedge funds have been drastically pruned.
0 Replies
 
Robert Gentel
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Mar, 2009 02:23 pm
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:
Being able to market that is genius.


Genius? Seriously, even the dumbest rappers on the planet figured out that feuds sell.

Quote:
Besides giving us an enjoyable half hour, what does he owe you?


Where did I say he owed me anything? I think he's a hypocritical hack, and I don't watch his show.
hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Mar, 2009 04:03 pm
@Lightwizard,
wizard :

in canada we have something similar to your 401 K , it's called "registered retirement savings plan" ( RRSP for short) and once one is in the "withdrawal stage" (which we have been for some years ) , it's called "registered retirement income fund" ( RRIF ) .
basically it's the same : you contribute during your working years - you withdraw in your retirement years .

i worked most of my life for one of canada's better (so somewhat small) life insurance companies . we had a "contributary pension plan" with matching contributions .
luckily , my pension is still of the "defined benefit plan " - my pension was based upon earnings plus years worked - certainly a very good deal .
since the company was and is family owned , the company has always been very stable - slow (somtimes very slow) growth but stable business was and is what the owners want .
since the family is of scottish background , they can be said to be very prudent with their money (and my pension ) .
our main retirement income consists of several pensions and we have only a modest amount in the market - and most of that is in GIC's (guaranteed investment certificates - guaranteed by the government of canada through the federal deposit insurance corporation . )
as long as the whole of canada does not go down the tube , we'll probably get through our remaining retirement years .
when we talk about "long-term plans " , we probably mean : what should we have for lunch today ?

still , i do keep my eyes on the market - even if only out of curiosity - like someone watching the olympic games but not actively participating .
take care .
hbg

0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Mar, 2009 04:06 pm
@Robert Gentel,
Maybe youre not old enough but John Stewart STARTED his career with exceptionally insightful political stand up. He was more hip than Dennis Miller and with a really great self depricating streak. He is what you see. I know two people whove been on the JS show and they both say that Stewart is controlling to the extent that he says "Ill do the jokes, I want you to tell me the truth". Both guys have only respectful things to say about Stewarts delivery and material.

SNL wishes that their weekly news could maintain the high level of insight that STewart presents.

Nobody gives a ratss ass about Cramer. Interesting thing is, if you look at the money in the market. Much is mae from giving bogus advice. I get BArrons and I spend almost 200$ a year for their bad advice. I read it mostly for the weekly by-lines and stock Reviews(not projections). Barrons has been consistently screwing up for at least 2 years.

hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Mar, 2009 04:16 pm
@farmerman,
farmerman :

really quite funny - this blurb appeared under your recent post :

Quote:
Jim Cramer Stock Picks
Looking for Jim Cramer Stock Picks? See Jim Cramer Stock Picks.
GrovesIndustrial.com


those gremlins must be quite busy searching though postings and attaching "appropriate " blurbs ! Wink Drunk
hbg
0 Replies
 
 

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