I'm ready to give up on school.

You don't have any kids, do you David?
Younger kids tend to get a sugar rush after eating candy, and then they get
unruly and disruptive.

two things:

1) I would like to hear comments from teachers. I am familiar with the argument that schools are underfunded thus class sizes are too big and there are too few support staff around to help the teachers out. For this reason teachers are spread very thin and thus when one or a few students demand more time than the teacher has to give the education of all the rest suffers. At some point there must be a line in the sand, because the education of all is the mission, and because the school and the teacher will be judged by the cumulative test scores of all of the students. Sometimes the resources allocated to the demanding child must be constricted. Sometimes the child must be removed from the class temporarily or permanently, in doing so the teacher and the school are doing what they have been told by the majority to do.

2) in every district and in most every school there are people who have battled the system to get resources for their kids. Usually they talk, a group of sorts forms. The wise thing to do is to seek these people out, find out what approach works best when dealing with this particular district, school, and individual teachers/admins. They also are aware of special programs which contain funds that might be helpful. They also are aware of the law or of others who are, and maybe even people who will help individuals fight for their kids against the school legally.

An interesting Oregon charter school



Oregon Charter Schools page

http://www.chartercenter.org/or/schools_list.html

If a change is being considered, now is the time to get things sorted

http://www.trilliumcharterschool.org/

I have been trying to avoid posting here. Swimpy is sounding very reasonable here.

What the teacher should be doing is describing the behavior, not diagnosing it. But, the fact seems to remain that the behavior exists. Boomer, focus your attention there. You sound like you have good insights into why the behavior might have escalated. If it's not ADHD then it is not ADHD. But, there is something going on which the teacher doesn't feel she is in control of.

Agreed on all counts.

I'll add that this seems like something that the professional you (boomer) were working with for a while could be really helpful with. Talking to him doesn't mean that you have to agree with what he has to say of course, but seems worth it to get his take and then integrate that into your decision-making process. (Can't remember if this person was a he or a she.)

The stakes are pretty high, which makes me shy about offering my non-professional advice.

Sorry that you're having to deal with this though, it sounds really rough.

I'm curious as to why you didn't want to post here littleK?

I'm not denying the behavoir exists or that something needs to be done.

But I do have a diagnosis, and that diagnosis is adjustment disorder with mixed emotion and conduct, not ADD. I'm losing any confidence I once held that the public school is able to deal with it.

By all indications they are going to use the same methods to correct his behavior that they use with kids who do have ADD despite the fact that it isn't working and is making things worse.

Honestly, its like if you took your kid to school and told them he has a severe allergy to wheat products and he started getting sick and sicker. Then when you questioned the school they said they didn't really know how to deal with a wheat allergy so they just decided to make him avoid peanuts because they knew how to isolate the non-peanut eaters.

The school has gobs of information on Mo. You wouldn't believe how in depth the report from the CRDC is. They also did their own testing and evaluations. For them to "not know" would be pretty silly.

We are scheduling a meeting with his IEP team. I would love to work this out. We bought this house specifically because the school has such a great reputation and it is better financed that most Portland schools. I'm going to be seriously pissed off if I have to withdraw him from school but not nearly as pissed off as I'll be if the **** Mo up.

Oh! Thanks for the links ehBeth!

I would never rely on one teacher's assessment about my children's behavior or anything else for that matter.

At times it was feeling a little bit like a lynch mob here. Not that I blame all of you.

I can perfectly understand you feeling like that, k.

I agree with this, too:

I imagine you can. And Aidan.

A link that might show there are studies going on that parents might be interested in:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/02/090204193314.htm

One thing I've been wondering about. How many students would be in Mo's class, or in an average year 2 class? I'm wondering because I know from experience that sometimes, even with the very best of intentions, one teacher cannot give as much time, attention & care to any one child as they might need, in her care. There could well be other, urgent demands requiring her attention & care at the same time. I'm not excusing her "diagnosis" of Mo. But she appears to feel that she's not really able to provide Mo with the assistance he needs, for whatever reason .... and I can undertand that frustration.

There are 27 kids in his class. One teacher and one teacher's aide with spends a part of the day there.

I'm sorry if it felt like a lynch mob. I'm not out to get teachers. I'm not even out to get this teacher. But my responsibility is to Mo and I can't put him through this year after year.

I'm going to throw a few random things out here and I'd love to hear what the teachers have to say about it and about how I should handle it:

1) I'm always telling Mo that this is Ms. Teacher's classroom and she gets to make the rules, not me. But then Ms. Teacher's rules start going contrary to the evaluation we had done and the recommendations that are best for Mo.

2) A big part of the therapy Mo went through was learning that adults are in charge not because they're big, but because they are responsible for what happens in any given environment. A kid's job is to be a kid and let the adults do the worrying. You have to trust them to take care of you.

Then you learn that Ms. Teacher is telling him that he has to take care of himself. Now I know she means that he needs to mind his own business and not worry about but other people are doing but he doesn't take it that way. He takes it to mean that he is responsible for what happens in the environment he's in and he worries about what everyone else is up to. He also starts worrying about it at home. He no longer trust that the adult will take care of problems.

3) I mentioned hypervigilance earlier. It's a safety thing. He doesn't feel safe so he is constantly scanning for dangers. This scanning is seen as inattentiveness so he gets booted from the class. When he comes back in he has to rescan for danger. Again it is seen as inattentiveness so he is sent from the room. When he comes back he has to scan again and so on and so on and so on.

Mr. B was opining last night that perhaps Mo is trying to get kicked out of class so that he only has to worry about himself for a while.

4) By not completeing his work on time he has to "owe" time to the teacher in what would be his recess. Since what he wants is attention from the teacher he might be not finishing his work on purpose in order to get one on one time with her.

How would/could a teacher deal with such a person?

Boomer, I said I understand - no worries.

There are other more experienced teachers here than I. So I'll let them tell you how they'd deal with him and learn from their words myself.

27 students with one teacher is quite a lot of 2nd graders. Perhaps what needs to be pushed for is a full-day assistant? Maybe a 1:1 who is paired with Mo to help him undewrstand the rules? I doubt he would be sent from the room for appearing inattentive. I can only hope the teacher would not be doing that. My thought is that he'd be sent from the room for disrupting class. Could his scanning for danger become disruptive?

The IEP meeting is the best venue for talking about this as there are specialists who can help you, the teacher and Mo work this out.

there is your problem right there......there is no way in hell a teacher can deal with than many kids. The California law is 20 or less k-3, and I have seen recommendations that the highest count for these grades really should be 18. I know from spending time as a volunteer aid that aids often deal with paperwork and supply issues much of the time, are not hands on with the students.

... or there is no way that any one teacher can always accomodate the specialized individual needs of those who need it, when they need it .... even if she gives it her best shot.

The reality is, in such a situation, that there will be one set of basic classroom "rules" for all students, based primarily on the need for student safety & the creation of a positive learning environment. That would be the teacher's first goal, to achieve that sort of atmosphere in her classroom. If that basic level of harmony & cooperation cannot be achieved then well, what exactly can be achieved in this classroom? After that, the individual needs of particular students would be the next priority. Sometimes, I can tell you, when a lot is going on at once, it can be a helluva juggling act trying to achieve everything at once!

Boomer, I certainly didn't think you were indulging in a teacher blaming exercise here. I know what your concerns are & I'm wishing you the very best in finding some solutions which better suit Mo's needs.

I was thinking that could be really helpful to Mo, too, k.

Particularly given that the class is so large.

Or perhaps a school environment with (much) smaller classes, where he can receive the attention he needs, when he needs it.

I don't see the district paying for that when drugs would cost the schools nothing yet has not been tried.