I'm ready to give up on school.

@gungasnake,

gungasnake wrote:

Quote:
That word was Ritalin.

Last summer I spent $1,500 at the best children's hospital in the PNW getting an evaluation done. Their determination: Mo does not have ADD or ADHD.

Knowing this, the school still thinks we should put Mo on drugs...

Find some sort of a better school for Mo and THEN....

And then get him a 70-lb heavy punching bag and insist that he take frustrations out on it for ten or fifteen minutes before heading off to school.

The two things which most resemble work in any gym are leg-press machines and heavy punching bags. Have him throw that basic three punch combination of Duran's against a heavy bag thirty or forty times before school and it would be highly unlikely for anybody to accuse him of being hyperactive when there.

Running a half mile or a mile or so prior to school might accomplish the same thing.

Will he need a shower
before he starts the day ?

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@CalamityJane,

Quote:

Unfortunately, in the United States, teachers are all to eager
to have unruly children labeled with ADD ...

Like, openly, upfront?

"This is what I think is wrong with your child." ?

I think there could well be some legal proceedings here, if a teacher uttered such things .. as a personal opinion. Even following diagnostic "evidence" it would be a complete no-no for such information to be referred to casually by teachers when discussing student progress & attitude to school ....

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@msolga,

You're right Olga. This would never have happened in any public school I worked in in the US. The appropriate course of action would have been for the teacher to voice her concerns to the principal who would then approach the parents for permission to have an evaluation done. The parent then could opt for the school to do it or to have it done privately. Then there would be a meeting with the parent, child, school psychologist, principal and teacher present. If there was an outside evaluation done, that psychologist would be present.
Then the parent would either take the psychologist's recommendation or not and take the child to the doctor who would then write the prescription or not.

If I or any other public school teacher ever said this to a parent in any of the schools that I worked in, there's a good chance we'd have been fired.

Many teachers are parents who would be just as upset about having their child drugged as anyone else. In my experience, it's more often the parent who opts for the drug than the teacher. Parents have to deal with their children and their issues twenty-four hours a day, seven days a week. Teachers do the best they can for six hours a day and then go home.

But if you think the school isn't serving your child - take him out- for sure. That's what I'd do.

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A quick note on charters -- I've been involved with charter schools from a few different angles and they're even more variable than public schools. Some are very, very good. Some are really terrible.

There is a comparative lack of oversight that simultaneously allows the really innovative ones to do great things and allows the bad ones to get away with a lot of crap (more crap than a public school would be allowed to get away with).

So "charter schools" aren't an answer in a general way -- really depends on the specific school.

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@hawkeye10,

There is no reason to punish Mo because of a stupid school system, that's why.

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Quote:

The appropriate course of action would have been for the teacher to voice her concerns to the principal who would then approach the parents for permission to have an evaluation done. The parent then could opt for the school to do it or to have it done privately. Then there would be a meeting with the parent, child, school psychologist, principal and teacher present. If there was an outside evaluation done, that psychologist would be present.

Nearly word for word this is exactly what we did. We had the evaluation done privately at the Childhood Development and Rehabilitation Clinic that is part of our local children's hopspital -- not by some person we found in the phone book. He was evaluated by a pediatric neuropsychologist and an occupational therapist. Their report said he does not have ADD.

I have been talking to his teacher nearly every day since Mo has had some behavior problems over the last couple of weeks, both at school and at home. With Mo it is often very hard to get to the bottom of what is going on.

A while back I had a thread about how the kids were giving him grief about his name. Last week a couple of kids told him that they found his birth certificate on the floor of the classroom. This had Mo so stressed out that we had to show him that his birth certificate is safely locked up in our fire safe and that there was no way that the kids found a copy.

He's also been stressed out about this AWOL kid from his class who they all had to write letters to telling him they hope he comes back. The only explaination given to the kids is that "he's too afraid to come to school". Mo talks about this kid every night.

Then there's the fact that the teacher did one of her seat rotation things which always upsets Mo. Add to this that his best friend is directly in his sight line and that "he distracts me (Mo) all the time".

When I suggest that some of these things might be part of the problem they look at me like I'm crazy.

I have also talked to the school about Mo's attachement issues and how hypervigilance is one way that the problem presents itself. (All of this was also in the report from the CRDC.)

Quote:

Hypervigilance is an enhanced state of sensory sensitivity accompanied by an exaggerated intensity of behaviors whose purpose is to detect threats. Hypervigilance is also accompanied by a state of increased anxiety which can cause exhaustion. Other symptoms include: abnormally increased arousal, a high responsiveness to stimuli and a constant scanning of the environment for threats.[1] Hypervigilance is a symptom of posttraumatic stress disorder.[2]

[edit] Symptoms
People suffering from hypervigilance may become preoccupied with studying their environment for possible threats, causing them to lose connections with family and friends. They will often have a difficult time getting to sleep or staying asleep.[3]

I understand how frustrating this is so I can just imagine how frustrating it is in a school setting. The problem is that the way schools deal with it is exactly wrong. Mostly because they always think it is ADD.

I agree that it is not okay for any kid to disrupt the classroom to the point where no work can get done but from what I see and hear Mo has not reached this point. His work is suffering and he's behind but most of the other kids seem on track. They won't let him bring work home for us to work on because I guess the actually learning isn't as important as the doing it in class.

And you're absolutely right, ehBeth, I was fully aware of what I was getting into with Mo and it didn't/doesn't deter me one single bit.

The crazy thing is -- I really, really like Mo's teacher. He really likes her too. He loves school.

I'm still dumbstruck that the one day I wasn't there she pulled Mr. B in for a chat about ADD and the benefits of drugs. Not that Mr. B is not a competent and involved parent or that there is anything wrong with him talking to the teacher but I've been talking to her daily and she never said anything like this to me. Does she think that Mr. B and I don't talk?

1 Reply

@msolga,

msolga wrote:

Quote:
Unfortunately, in the United States, teachers are all to eager
to have unruly children labeled with ADD ...

Like, openly, upfront?

"This is what I think is wrong with your child." ?

I think there could well be some legal proceedings here, if a teacher uttered such things .. as a personal opinion. Even following diagnostic "evidence" it would be a complete no-no for such information to be referred to casually by teachers when discussing student progress & attitude to school ....

Yes msolga, teachers do approach parents openly about it. Of course not
in Aidan's world where everything is peachy, but in the real world it does
happen. I have a friend with two sons and when her older one was in first
grade, the teacher approached her within weeks after school started. Granted he was rambunctious, but certainly didn't have ADD. After my friend refused,
the principal got involved and my friend needed a professional evaluation
of her boy - he did not have ADD. That same teacher approached her again
a few years later with her second boy. Mr. B was approached by a teacher
as boomerang said. It really is not so uncommon here.

My godchild's parents were also approached by the teacher first. His father
is a physician and flat out refused to have his son even evaluated, he switched to a private school instead.

Jane (my daughter) who was a tomboy and very rambunctious, went to a private school in her elementary years, and things are handled differently there with unruly children. Jane is in public school now and her friend Laverne is diagnosed with ADD, she's taking Ritalin. Laverne is very, very
bright, yet she's in special education classes due to her diagnosis. Very sad.

Concerning charter school, I agree with sozobe: some are very good and
they usually have a long waiting list, others are just below standards and
could close doors very fast.

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@boomerang,

Boomerang - Sometimes despite everyone's best efforts, a school placement just doesn't work.
People who haven't experienced everything you've gone through with Mo - despite their best efforts to understand - just can't or don't understand.
The bullying that he's constantly enduring about his name and his birth certificate is wrong. The sad thing is, the kids who want to do those things are going to go on doing those things and even if the teacher wants to prohibit it, short of taping their mouths shut - what can she do? In an instant, when her back is turned, or even if she's standing there watching, they can blurt out the most hurtful stuff.

I've read enough about your experiences as Mo's mom to know you love him dearly and want to protect him. I would want to protect my child from this sort of thing as well, because what these little jerks don't understand is that he doesn't need their **** piled on top of everything else he's had to deal with.
Maybe one day something will happen to them or somebody will bully them and they will get it, but until then, I'd find some other option.
It's six months out of his life until the next school year starts. If he wants to and you want to - you seem like a competent and conscientous parent who could do a good job teaching him yourself until you can find a more appropriate placement for him next year.
I wouldn't put my child on drugs unless I myself was convinced that was necessary and part of my decision making process would be to ask myself if I thought it was situational and environmental or physiological within my child across all circumstances. If the answer seemed to be that it was only in school and nowhere else, I'd decide it was situational and environmental and change that.
I'd easily pull my child from school before I'd feel pressured to put my child on drugs I didn't think were appropriate.
* And I didn't say this teacher didn't say this - I said, if she did- she was wrong to say it.

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@shewolfnm,

I'd look into that - the charter school route just to see what is available.

I haven't home schooled, but I have a good friend who has. She was a teacher and because of the timing when her family moved and they were in temporary housing, she home schooled for a year.

I am not sure everything that was involved with it, but if you are serious I can ask her. She may have gotten her information though from a Christian source as she taught and now teachers again in a Christian school so you may or may not be interested.

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One other thing I just remembered I know some one at work who has his children home schooled. I have spoken with him about it so I know a bit - they do have a network of parents so it would be helpful if you could find such a group. And one is a former math teacher so he teaches the kids math.

Again if you want more details, I could ask him.

Personally I am not a huge fan of home schooling, but realize each child and situation is different so depending on the child, situation and the network of home schooling it could be the best for the child.

One other thought - can you send your child to a different school? I know some town/cities/counties do have a program where you can go to a school outside your district. And/or is there another classroom for his age within the school - maybe either of these might be an alternative.

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I don't know why the teacher chose to take Mr. B aside and suggest Ritalin. It was inappropriate. I would suggest that you request a meeting with the principal, the teacher and any counselor or special ed coordinator to map out a plan to deal with the issues Mo has at school. You and the school need to work as a team. If they refuse, then I'd start looking for a different school.

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@Swimpy,

(I agree with Swimp)

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@boomerang,

boomerang wrote:

Seriously.

I was sick today and Mr. B was home sick too. "Luckily" Mo is over it and back at school.

Today I was busy so Mr. B walked down to school to pick Mo up and Mo's teacher told Mr. B that she would like to have "a word" with him.

That word was Ritalin.

Last summer I spent $1,500 at the best children's hospital in the PNW getting an evaluation done. Their determination: Mo does not have ADD or ADHD.

Knowing this, the school still thinks we should put Mo on drugs.

I am so seriously pissed off that this "word" happened on the one single day I did not come pick Mo up, but that is really beside the point.

I can't really afford private school right now but I'm thinking of shopping for some kind of homeschool network and withdrawing him from public school.

Has anyone here home schooled? How did you get connected to others who were doing this? Where did you get your materials? Were you happy about your decision? Was your kid?

What about unschooling?

What do I need to know?

When my neice-in-law advised that she was going to home school her #3 son, I was highly skeptical. She has a highschool diploma only and while a lovely person and no dummy, didn't come across as particularly brighter than any other bulbs in the chandelier. But she put him on a schedule, religiously did her homework so she could effectively teach him, and the results were amazing. He progressed and tested with amazing scores miles above most in the public schools and he devoted his spare time to rodeo and ranching and church projects and volunteer work that, while providing great socialization opportunities, also netted him a full scholarship to the college of his choice. And he has maintained a 4.0 grade average while becoming a national collegiate rodeo champion. This is no shrinking violet, pansy assed, wimpy mama's boy.

(When he started highschool he went to public school for a few weeks and then begged to return home for home schooling. They waste so much time he said. And the kids don't behave and the whole thing is really backwards and stupid. So my terrific neice-in-law stayed in the books herself and went the whole distance with him. When advanced math, etc. was beyond her ability to stay ahead of him, they hired tutors.)

A whole generation of us grew up just fine before there was such a thing as Ritalin. Teachers handled those of us--and I include me--who were less docile and passive and therefore no doubt more difficult to manage. (Had I been in school now, no doubt an incompetent teacher would have been recommending Ritalin to my parents.)

The practice of drugging kids to me is an abomination as bad as drugging old folks in nursing homes to keep them nearly comatose and therefore the staff doesn't need to deal with them.

Stick to your guns Boomer. Don't drug your kid. Your kid deserves to grow up to be who he is intended to be and should not be chemically sidetracked because the teacher is poorly trained or lacks patience.

And yes, if you are motivated, home schooling is certainly an option. The overall performance of home schooled kids far exceeds almost all public schools and also many good private schools.

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Thank you all for the comments, I don't feel quite so much like banging my head against the wall and crying all the time anymore. It is so unbelievable frustrating to have this come up AGAIN. I just see it happening year after year after year and I'm tired of putting my family through it.

Thanks too, Green Witch, for the link. I've been cruising through homeschooling and tutoring sites most of the morning trying to get a handle on things.

I think that ideally it would be great if he could go to school for a half day, for some of his special reading groups, library, music, and gym then do the academic stuff at home with me or a tutor. That way he'd still get some of the social interaction that he gets from school. We live just a few blocks from Reed College and I'm hearing that there are a lot of students who tutor for a pretty good price. That's certainly worth looking into.

Does anyone have any idea of how the concept of part time student status would be received by the school? Is this something they might be willing to do?

Gunga, Mo and I went to the schoolyard and shot hoops for a half hour before school started today. He was pretty tired by the time the bell rang. We'll see if it makes any difference in how his day goes today.

1 Reply

@boomerang,

Quote:

Does anyone have any idea of how the concept of part time student status would be received by the school? Is this something they might be willing to do

That is something that is commonly done by a lot of homeschooled kid- most often for 'specials'-art, music, gym -that the homeschooling parent may not have the equipment or supplies to provide.
It's his right as a resident of the catchement area of your school district and they can't deny him access to the school's facilities-so they'd definitely be willing to do that.

1 Reply

@boomerang,

I would be very angry as well especially after wasting time, money , and effort on a problem that didnt exist but I would think very hard about putting your kid through homeschool. Its my personal opinion that even though this is a harsh world to live in and a school can be a harsh enviroment sometimes from children, there is a vital lesson that is unspoken and can only be taught through public exposure. Now that lesson can be many things but there is a definate distinction between a child taking courses from home and one in public school. Some times those can be bad but I prefer to think that good qualities are formed more often.

1 Reply

@aidan,

Thanks aidan.

That might be a good starting point for a discussion with the school.

Would I be allowed to ask that the assignments the class is working on be sent home to me each week or would I need to provide my own?

Also, how does it work with grading? Since he's in second grade they don't do the A,B,C type grading but it is based on participation and completeing assignments.

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@boomerang,

That's something that differs from school district to school district.
If you have a good relationship with the school and Mo's teacher, I'd think they'd be more than willing to do anything they could to help Mo be successful. I know I've collected work and given it to kids who've been kicked out or removed from school at a parent's request (not that this is the situation with Mo). It should be no problem for them to make an extra copy of each assignment and give you the books that he's currently using.

In terms of grading - kids in second grade aren't promoted based on their grades per se. But if there's end of the year testing, he may need to take those and show that he's achieved a certain level of competence in reading and math if you're thinking you'd like him to return to the school system and be admitted to third grade in September.

I'd just keep a portfolio of his work, to show the people wherever you decide to send him to school, so that they can have an accurate reading of his skills and can place him appropriately. That more than anything else, will help him feel comfortable with himself in terms of learning.

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@alguyton,

Welcome to a2k, alguyton...

I have a bias against homeschooling having to do with preparation for real life in the so-called work force. On the other hand, a friend's boyfriend back in the early sixties had been homeschooled and grew up to be a major force in aeronautical engineering. On the other hand again, he was a little weird, socially. On the other hand, so are many scientists who weren't homeschooled.
Well, homeschooling and unschooling have been discussed before on a2k.

If anyone on earth could homeschool well, it'd be Boomer. I'm still reactive though, re what I consider relatively intensified mother attachment for a person who will need to get along in the future without the kind of 24/7 counsel.

I also think the teacher was out of line and sideways re the leap to talk with Mo's father, both re recommending, if she did actually recommend it, a medication, and apparent obvious skipping of dealing with who she usually deals with, Boomer. An undercut to the chin, chickenshit, though I can somewhat understand it, given her point of view. I can see sounding out the other parent, just not that far. But... didn't she read the report you gave, Boom?
She sounds like a different teacher from the one Boom has been talking with all along.

Before any switching, once I'd settled down my considerable angst, I would gird loins and chase down what was going on, and pursue matters higher up.
Mo does have real problems, just not the one that the teacher is saying.
Also, I'd be interested in what that neuro whatsis psychologist - or any related advisors, would have to say.

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@Swimpy,

Swimpy wrote:

I don't know why the teacher chose to take Mr. B aside and suggest Ritalin. It was inappropriate. I would suggest that you request a meeting with the principal, the teacher and any counselor or special ed coordinator to map out a plan to deal with the issues Mo has at school. You and the school need to work as a team. If they refuse, then I'd start looking for a different school.

I think this is a good idea. I would add the suggestion that you bring for each of them a copy of the evaluation from the Childhood Development and Rehabilitation Clinic. Also have a form for each of them to sign that acknowledges they received and have read the evaluation. Ask that a copy of the evaluation and each signed receipt be placed in Mo's file.

1 Reply

I'm ready to give up on school.

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