3
   

Scottish kids taken from grandparents, given to gays

 
 
Reply Wed 28 Jan, 2009 08:27 am
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1130066/They-say-old-care-grandchildren-Social-workers-hand-brother-sister-gay-men-adoption.html

Quote:
Adoption by gay couples in Scotland was approved by MSPs in 2006 - despite an official consultation process which showed that nearly 90 per cent of people opposed it.....


Quote:

Two young children are to be adopted by a gay couple, despite the protests of their grandparents.

The devastated grandparents were told they would never see the youngsters again unless they dropped their opposition.

The couple, who cannot be named, wanted to give the five-year-old boy and his fouryearold sister a loving home themselves. But they were ruled to be too old - at 46 and 59.

For two years they fought for their rights to care for the children, whose 26-year- old mother is a recovering heroin addict.

They agreed to an adoption only after they faced being financially crippled by legal bills.

The final blow came when they were told the children were going to a gay household, even though several heterosexual couples wanted them.

When the grandfather protested, he was told: 'You can either accept it, and there's a chance you'll see the children twice a year, or you can take that stance and never see them again.'

The man said last night: 'It breaks my heart to think that our grandchildren are being forced to grow up in an environment without a mother figure. We are not prejudiced, but I defy anyone to explain to us how this can be in their best interests.'

Social workers themselves have admitted that the little girl is 'more wary' of men than women.

The case, in Edinburgh, raises worrying issues about state interference in family life.

It will also fuel concern over the practice of gay adoption, which has been promoted by Left-wing ministers and council bosses.

Some local authorities forbid adoption by smokers and obese people but actively support gay fostering and adoption - even though research shows overwhelmingly that children are best brought up by a mother and father.

The grandparents first stepped in because the children's mother was unable to look after them.

But council social workers became worried that the grandparents' ages and health problems meant they would also be unable to care for the children properly.

The 59-year-old grandfather, a farm worker, has angina while his wife is receiving medication for diabetes.

The children were taken into foster care during the two years of court hearings.

When the grandparents eventually conceded defeat, they were assured by social workers that they would still have regular contact with them.

The fostering arrangement worked well, but the council decided that the children should be adopted, to give them a permanent home.

The grandparents agreed - as long as they could be assured that the adoptive parents would be a loving mother and father.

The couple were then told an adoption had been arranged - but the grandfather 'hit the roof' when he discovered that the adoptive parents were two gay men.

Social workers dealing with the case admitted that heterosexual couples who were approved as adoptive parents had also been keen to adopt the children.

The decision was taken even though a confidential social work report - now part of the court records held by the grandparents - contained that the little girl is generally not as happy around men.

The report says she 'has tended to be more wary of males in general.'

Her grandparents insist they are not homophobic.

But they reject the view of social workers that the decision to allow the gay couple to adopt the children was made 'in accordance with who can best meet their needs.'

When they made their opposition clear, however, the couple were told that social workers would 'certainly look' at allowing them access to the children 'when you are able to come back with an open mind on the issues'.

The grandfather was told by a social worker: 'If you couldn't support the children [in the gay adoption], if you were having contact and couldn't support the children, and were showing negative feelings, it wouldn't be in their best interests for contact to take place.'

He said last night: 'The ideal for any child is to have a loving father and a loving mother in their lives.

'But in our society the mother is generally the cornerstone of the family and the most important person for a young child.'

His wife added: 'It's so important for children to fit in, and I feel our grandchildren will be marked out from the start when they draw pictures of their two dads.'

The last time the couple saw their grandchildren was shortly after the agreement for them to be adopted but before the decision to place them with a gay couple.

They took dozens of photographs and tried, for the sake of the youngsters, not to break down.

'Granny, I'm not going to see you for a very long time,' said the five-year-old boy. 'Maybe when I'm in Primary Seven I'll be able to see you.'

'We'll try our very hardest to see you soon,' said his grandmother, choking back tears.

The boy told his grandfather: 'Grandad, if you want to see me you will have to pick me up because I will be a very long way away.'

Then he added innocently: 'We are getting a new mummy and daddy.'

A spokesman for the Roman Catholic church condemned the council's decision last night, warning that the children's welfare could be jeopardised.

He added: 'This is a devastating decision which will have a serious impact on the welfare of the children involved.

'There is an overwhelming body of evidence showing that same-sex relationships are inherently unstable and reduce the life expectancy of those involved.

'The social work department have deliberately ignored evidence which undermines their decision and opted for politically-correct posturing rather than providing stability and protection for the children.'

The City of Edinburgh Council said last night that it could not comment on individual cases.

Adoption by gay couples in Scotland was approved by MSPs in 2006 - despite an official consultation process which showed that nearly 90 per cent of people opposed it.
 
boomerang
 
  2  
Reply Wed 28 Jan, 2009 08:54 am
There are way too many questions that this article doesn't answer.

Where were the grandparents while the kids were living with their heroin addicted mother?

Where is the father?

What does the mother think about all this? Maybe there is a reason she doesn't want the kids living with her parents.

Who have been the foster parents? Is it the gay couple?

Has anyone considered what it is like for kids to be constantly uprooted?

If the grandparents can't afford the legal bills how are they going to afford two children?

They say they aren't homophobic but they didn't object to the children being adopted by a "normal" family? That doesn't even make sense. Of course they're homophobic.
0 Replies
 
joefromchicago
 
  3  
Reply Wed 28 Jan, 2009 09:20 am
@gungasnake,
gungasnake wrote:
The couple, who cannot be named, wanted to give the five-year-old boy and his fouryearold sister a loving home themselves. But they were ruled to be too old - at 46 and 59.

Well, them's the rules.

gungasnake wrote:
For two years they fought for their rights to care for the children, whose 26-year- old mother is a recovering heroin addict.

They agreed to an adoption only after they faced being financially crippled by legal bills.

The final blow came when they were told the children were going to a gay household, even though several heterosexual couples wanted them.

What made them think they could pick and choose who adopted these kids? Once the mother (and let's be clear here: it was the mother's choice to put the kids up for adoption, not the grandparents') put the kids on the market, it was the government that got to decide who would adopt them.

gungasnake wrote:
When the grandfather protested, he was told: 'You can either accept it, and there's a chance you'll see the children twice a year, or you can take that stance and never see them again.'

Very reasonable.

gungasnake wrote:
The man said last night: 'It breaks my heart to think that our grandchildren are being forced to grow up in an environment without a mother figure. We are not prejudiced, but I defy anyone to explain to us how this can be in their best interests.'

Heavens! They might catch "THE GHEY!" Never mind that they're Scottish, so they already have one strike against them.
aidan
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Jan, 2009 03:43 am
@joefromchicago,
Joe said:
Quote:
What made them think they could pick and choose who adopted these
kids? Once the mother (and let's be clear here: it was the mother's choice to put the kids up for adoption, not the grandparents') put the kids on the market, it was the government that got to decide who would adopt them.


If the mom was smacked out on heroin - I doubt she had any choice in the matter at all. I'm sure the kids were taken- not relinquished. And if she wasn't given the choice to relinquish - I'm sure she sure as hell wasn't given the choice of who should or shouldn't adopt them (and rightly so, I'm sad to have to agree).

I don't think it's homophobic for these grandparents to want their grandchildren to have a normal family and normal life. And yes - for the sake of pragmatism in terms of language - I agree a typical or normal life for a child most often includes a mother and father. Why try to avoid that? It doesn't make someone hateful to admit what's staring them in the face.

In terms of the money - I'd have a much harder time coming up with £50,000 or £100,000 pounds all in one lump sum to pay legal fees for a long drawn out court battle than I would paying to support two children as we went along on a day to day basis.

I think it's sad for these kids to be taken from their birth family. Their grandparents obviously love them - they obviously know and love their grandparents.

I think these kids are just being subjected to one more tragedy in their life- they lost the roll of the dice in terms of their mom - and now they're being taken from the rest of their family.

The fact that these men are gay has absolutely nothing to do with how I view this. If their grandmother was a lesbian or their grandfather was gay - I'd still want them to be with them.
saab
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Jan, 2009 06:45 am
Here is more about the family and more about other families who have been under the SS in Britain - and please read the letters from the readers. They sure are against this arrangement - especially as the little girl is afraid of men.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1131200/As-storm-rages-siblings-forced-adoption-gay-men-5-year-old-pleads-We-want-stay-gran-grandad.html
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Jan, 2009 07:18 am
@gungasnake,
it intrigues me to understand why you might be interested in this.

As the court case was held in secret to protect identities, and as the Daily Mail is a scumbag tabloid, you can be sure its a pack of lies.
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Jan, 2009 08:58 am
@Steve 41oo,
Welcome to my ignore list.
0 Replies
 
joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Jan, 2009 09:17 am
@aidan,
aidan wrote:
I don't think it's homophobic for these grandparents to want their grandchildren to have a normal family and normal life. And yes - for the sake of pragmatism in terms of language - I agree a typical or normal life for a child most often includes a mother and father. Why try to avoid that? It doesn't make someone hateful to admit what's staring them in the face.

The point isn't that the grandparents are homophobic, it's that they don't have any right to dictate who may adopt their grandchildren. There's a reason they spent a lot of money fruitlessly fighting this battle -- they had no realistic chance of winning.
aidan
 
  2  
Reply Thu 29 Jan, 2009 09:37 am
@joefromchicago,

Quote:
They say they aren't homophobic but they didn't object to the children being adopted by a "normal" family? That doesn't even make sense. Of course they're homophobic.

I was making reference to this statement- I agree the point is not that they're homophobic. I was just explaining why I don't believe they necessarily are- there are people who are perfectly accepting of homosexuality who would prefer to see children have the opportunity to have both a mother and a father if that option is available - I happen to be one of those people- so I know homophobia is not the only consideration here.

Joe said:
Quote:
The point isn't that the grandparents are homophobic, it's that they don't have any right to dictate who may adopt their grandchildren.

Well, that might be true, but I think it's a shame. If these people are typical grandparents, they probably know and love these children and it seems are ready to do anything for them.
I think they should be listened to as far as what they believe would be best for these children. Who would have more or better knowledge of who they are, what they've been through in their lives and what they may need?
I think the whole situation is heartbreaking for the adults and for the children.
This is the sort of thing I read and think to myself - I'd ******* take those kids and run.
And I probably would.
0 Replies
 
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Jan, 2009 09:48 am
We're only hearing one side of the story.

We don't have the foggiest idea why the government thought the home they selected was the best one for the kids. I imagine they had reasons.

We don't know anything else about the grandparents other than what they've told us.

Not all grandparents are postcard perfect. (Mo's mOther would not even allow her mother to see Mo -- ever.) Maybe the little girl is afraid of men because her grandpa is a jerk.

We just don't know.

In a perfect world everyone would have a mother and father who loved and supported them.
0 Replies
 
saab
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Jan, 2009 10:54 am
There were several couples man and wife who wanted to adopt the children but the SS gave the kids to the gay men.
If poosible children should stay withing their family and known surroundings when nothing speaks against it. The grandmother and grandfather could agewise have been the parents of the children.
There has been several strange cases in UK about taking away children from families and put them up for adoption.
The state has given SS money when a child was adopted. This was to help place difficult children - older, handicapped etc. As mostly small newborn are wanted they take this sometimes away from young mothers and others.
0 Replies
 
shewolfnm
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Jan, 2009 11:46 am
@joefromchicago,
joefromchicago wrote:


gungasnake wrote:
The man said last night: 'It breaks my heart to think that our grandchildren are being forced to grow up in an environment without a mother figure. We are not prejudiced, but I defy anyone to explain to us how this can be in their best interests.'

Heavens! They might catch "THE GHEY!" Never mind that they're Scottish, so they already have one strike against them.


I wonder...


If we yank all the white kids, and have them adopted by black families.. with they catch the black too?

This is genetic warfare! Making all these gays like this..dissss-pick-able


I call treason!!!or some other big word!
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Jan, 2009 05:34 pm
Quote:
Adoption by gay couples in Scotland was approved by MSPs in 2006 - despite an official consultation process which showed that nearly 90 per cent of people opposed it....


This is basically beyond being out of touch; those fuckers know what they're doing. This is the thing about libtards wanting to simply stick it in the faces of the ordinary people of the country and one should anticipate that a government which makes habits out of this sort of thing will sooner or later be forcibly overthrown.


aidan
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Jan, 2009 05:40 pm
@gungasnake,
So you don't give a **** about these kids?
You just want the libtards overthrown?
That's nice- that right there is why people are inclined to distrust conservative motives.
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Jan, 2009 05:52 pm
@aidan,
It seems sufficiently obvious that the only thing anybody can do for those kids is to increase some sort of a pain level for the shitbirds running the feral government over there. Somebody who'd do something like that is incapable of seeing light; they need to feel heat.
Cycloptichorn
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 29 Jan, 2009 06:00 pm
@gungasnake,
gungasnake wrote:

Quote:
Adoption by gay couples in Scotland was approved by MSPs in 2006 - despite an official consultation process which showed that nearly 90 per cent of people opposed it....


This is basically beyond being out of touch; those fuckers know what they're doing. This is the thing about libtards wanting to simply stick it in the faces of the ordinary people of the country and one should anticipate that a government which makes habits out of this sort of thing will sooner or later be forcibly overthrown.



Overthrown?

By who?

You guys can't even tie your shoelaces, let alone organize an overthrow of a government.

As for the story,

I think there's an argument you could make about the kids being taken from the grandparents. But the fact that they were given to a gay couple is meaningless. And you and other bigots like yourself only focus on it, because you fear gays.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Jan, 2009 07:26 pm
From saab's link above:

Quote:
When the grandparents eventually caved in to what they describe as ‘bully tactics’ by the social workers, the department arranged for the children to be adopted by a gay couple in the Edinburgh area. They had already decided that, whatever the outcome of the battle, the children should not see their mother owing to her unstable lifestyle and history of offences.


And then from: http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/topstories/City-faces-probe-call-in.4925454.jp

Quote:
After refusing to take out a court order banning their daughter from seeing her children, the grandparents reluctantly agreed for the youngsters to be taken into foster care.


Sounds like it really wouldn't have been that hard for the grandparents to have kept the kids.

It always completely pisses me off when some idiot loses custody of their children because they'd rather be doing heroin then pisses and moans about how awful the adoptive parents are. If she wanted the kids to have a mom and dad maybe she should have stayed sober and married the kids father.
0 Replies
 
aidan
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Jan, 2009 02:13 am
@gungasnake,
I think the government was probably so peripherally involved in this that you can't even factor them in.

There are a lot of should haves and would haves we'll never know about. These grandparents (who I don't know- and none of us know) were caught between a rock and a hard place.
On the one hand they have a drug addicted daughter, whom they may have loved - she may be a really nice person with an addiction problem (as a lot of drug users are) who simply behaved irresponsibly. Okay, granted. Maybe seeing her was detrimental to her kids' mental and emotional well-being- granted. Maybe they should have had the strength to deny her visits with them, whether they loved her and she loved them or not - granted.
But maybe they were just human, with weaknesses - one of which may have been loving their daughter- believing she could change- and being unwilling to remove the impetus for change (her children) totally from her life.
I'm not saying that's how it is or was - I'm saying that's as easily how it could have been as any other scenario we could make up.

The social workers fucked up here. They should have worked to find a home that would help meld these two families (I'm talking the grandparents - not the daughter especially)- for the sake of those two kids. Apparently there were other families available that would have more readily fit the bill. They bypassed those. Why?

I'm not advocating these peoples' point because they're biologically related. I'm advocating because they're who these children know. If they'd been in a foster home since they were born and the foster parents were being denied adoption rights - I'd disagree with that.
Another sad disruption in these kids lives...and all these sad disruptions eventually add up.
Maybe they'll all work it out though and it'll end happily. We can always hope.
0 Replies
 
saab
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Jan, 2009 02:33 am
When adopted children grow up they have the right to find their biological parents or at least the mother - as it is so important to know your roots.
When children who know and love their grandparents want to stay with them or at least to have contact with them it is forbidden.
Where is the right of children then? Where is the logic in this case.
The father of the boy is dead and the father of the girl has no contact with her.
But there’s another aspect of this story which has not been explored.
That’s the role of the couple being given the children.
How old they are, how long they’ve been together, whether they’ve got any medical conditions.
What makes them better prospective parents than any other heterosexual couples on the list?

More to the point, what kind of individuals would even consider adopting children who don’t want to be adopted and who would rather live with their own natural grandparents.
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Jan, 2009 06:00 am
Quote:
The case, in Edinburgh, raises worrying issues about state interference in family life.

It will also fuel concern over the practice of gay adoption, which has been promoted by Left-wing ministers and council bosses.....


Face it; this one is an atrocity and an abomination. Moreover the person or persons responsible for it, aside from any leftists instincts to simply stick it to the ordinary Christian people who make up the bulk of the country, are clearly acting on some sort of a deluded belief that they are doing gays some sort of a favor.

In real life of course, governments which make habits of telling 90% of their people to go **** themselves are basically tyrannies and have a history of being taken down before their times. The people of Scotland might wake up sooner or later and take this one down and I would not want to be in the position of being gay in Scotland and finding out what sort of a life gays were going to have there the day after that happened, if 90% of the people had a whole lot of this sort of bullshit in recent memory.

In other words, if I were a gay person living in Scotland right now, I would not figure anybody was doing me any favors.










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