@OCCOM BILL,
Howdy Bill, it's the middle of the night and things are nice and quiet, so I wanted to respond to this properly.
First I'd like to say that I have been at this every waking moment for the past 3 days and just when the dust started to settle a bit, along you came with all this. I was already emotionally exausted and I spoke to you more harshly than I know I normally would have, and for that I'm sorry.
Even though I feel I may have been a little too harsh with you, I stand by what I said and now I'm going to properly explain to you why.
OCCOM BILL wrote:
You are well liked and understood here, Montana, and no one of any import is mad at you… I assure you. Indeed, you owe yourself an inward smile… at the knowledge that so many people care enough about you to have followed and/or participated in this unfortunate debacle. People who care about you have collectively spent hundreds if not thousands of hours in concern with nothing but your best interest at heart.
As I expessed several times already, no one had any reason what so ever to be concerned. I was talking with a man on a public forum, just like I talk to everyone else here and not once did I ever give the impression that I planned on taking our conversation out side of the forum, yet some still felt compelled to interfere. It was bad enough to where they made it impossible for me to talk to the guy.
Maybe it's because they care, but caring doesn't give anyone the right to control that person.
A little credit for having some common sense would have been nice. I appreciated the warnings, but it went way too far.
I'm a big girl and there is a thing called being over protective, expecially when I still can't see what the big deal was all about.
In all this, I can't help but wonder where everyone was when I truly did need them, like when I was in desperate need of a job reference.
Noddy (love you Jill), Mikey (you know I love ya) and Roger (love you too Rog) were the only ones who cared enough to help me then, when I was actually in need of help. [/quote]
OCCOM BILL wrote: Now I’ll grant you that not everyone took care to word their concerned responses in a fashion that would be interpreted as kindness to you, necessarily… but many of their responses should nonetheless be interpreted as genuine concern in retrospect. Georgeob1 and Francis, for instance, weren’t sugar-coating… rather they were highlighting FoB’s deplorable tactics… and there is no rational explanation for doing so, except genuine concern for your well-being.
Again, as I stated so many times before. Concern can be shown and warnings can be given without literally trying to control my actions.
People were highlighting what they feel were FOW's tactics, with no proof to back their claims and knowing you've seen me in the political threads, you know I'm a woman who needs proof. I live by the words "innocent until proven guilty" and I personally think that's one of my better qualities.
The man makes a comment about Americans and suddenly he's attacked from all ends, even after he said he was sorry.
Yeah, he said some stupid **** here and there after that, but he was constantly under attack and couldn't post anywhere anymore. Hell, who wouldn't lash out?
Then when he tries to talk to me (one of the few left who would talk to him), suddenly he's a manipulating stalker?
I know someone might mention the post he made that upset me and started this whole thing, so I'll nip that in the bud while I'm here.
I confronted him on that post because I believe everyone deserves a chance to explain, especially if they ask.
I left here for a day just to get away from the madness and so I could think about it before I gave him a chance to explain.
The reasons why I gave him a chance to explain is that #1 he was costantly under attack, which is no excuse, but I know how stressful and draining that can be. #2. I read his post again a few times and noticed that it seemed like he started off talking to me, but suddenly drifted off to talking to others.
He was obviously very upset and, well, I think we're all guilty of saying stupid **** when we are angry.
I'm not condoning the stupid **** he said, but just saying we all say stupid **** sometimes, especially out of anger, which makes him no less human than the rest of us (my opinion, of course).
It's just all common sense to me. [/quote]
OCCOM BILL wrote: I think most here understand your reaction to "mean girls," regardless of what their true intent may have been. That you had unresolved issues with some of them that needed to be addressed is perfectly understandable… and good on you for finally getting it out. I hope that having done so provides you with some peaceful feelings of relief.
I wouldn't call it "peaceful", but it was, indeed, a relief to get a few things off my chest.
As I stated before, there are only 2 people who I feel I should have confronted a long time ago and I think it's more than obvious who they are. Actually there's 3. 2 female and 1 male.
OCCOM BILL wrote: While I can easily understand your reaction considering your mutual history, and have frequently been offended myself by their cavalier disregard for the feelings of others; in this particular situation I’ve no choice but to concur with their assessment of FoW.
Ok, so what's your point?
OCCOM BILL wrote: I like Shewolf’s abuse/relationship metaphor and really find it quite fitting. Nimh brilliantly highlighted the likely reaction from that kind of invasive interference, but there is a flip-side to that coin as well. Trying to compel the "sister/friend" to see their person-of-interest as destructive will indeed frequently result in pushing them away… but there really is no good alternative. It is equally ineffective to pretend the destructive person is A-Okay out of respect to the sister/friend’s feelings… so refraining from attempts to find some way to get that information across is equally unproductive. It is a pity that there is no magic answer to that situation, but there isn’t, so we all try whatever we believe is most likely to be effective, in a situation with no easy solution available.
What situation Bill? I was talking to someone just like I talk with everyone else, so the situation only started when some decided to turn it into a situation, therefor, no solution needed. Period and as simple as that. Now we do have a situation needing a solution, that was caused by a non-situation that needed no solution. <scratches head>
OCCOM BILL wrote: You, yourself have felt the utter helplessness in attempts to compel someone in a bad situation to recognize the inherent dangers in relationships that are, or appear to be leading to, destructiveness. Your heart IS bigger than most, so I KNOW it affects you greatly when the intended recipient of your constructive sharing of your own bad experiences isn’t buying. I also know you would never judge that person stupid, simply for failing to recognize the simple truths you are writing on the wall. Neither do most, if not all, of your friends here consider you stupid for wanting to trust your own instincts over the preponderance of others. That is a perfectly natural reflection of self-respecting independence.
I also don't throw insults at people in distress who I'm trying to help. Kicking someone when they're down is just plain cruel. Hell, I think kicking someone when they're up is cruel as well, but kicking them when they're down is just evil in my eyes.
Even if I think someone is gullible or naive, I'm not gonna tell them that, regardless if I care about them or not (unless they're attacking me, then all bets are off) because all it would do is cause hurt and/or anger.
More common sense from where I sit!
OCCOM BILL wrote: It is obvious that at 40+ you are a big girl who can take care of yourself, and I don’t believe any rational person was suggesting otherwise. But when it comes to all matters of the heart, we are all capable of being naïve, vulnerable, and we are ALL potential victims (save the sociopaths, of course.) That’s indicative of being human, not stupid.
Matters of the heart Bill? I was just talking with the man for christ sakes!
OCCOM BILL wrote: For instance; I consider myself an exceptionally well grounded person, but history has recorded more than one example of my own heart leading me astray in defiance of logic and a plethora of good advice from well-meaning friends and family. Hell, that could be happening in my personal life right now; but I am content to follow my heart and in the words of Billy Joel; "I won’t hold back anything… and I’ll walk away a fool or a king." That in no way means my friends and family aren’t well-meaning in issuing their cautions, and I can only respect and appreciate their advice… even when I think they’re dead wrong. I recognize that concern for me is their sole purpose in offering their advice; and mutual respect compels me to consider that I may very well be wrong. Like you; only I can weigh the available information and come to my own conclusions.
Back to the matter at hand:
When concern turn into CONTROL, I get kinda bitchy, and again, there was no cause for concern to begin with.
OCCOM BILL wrote: It is beyond obvious to most of us that this troll (FoW)(quite possibly (probably?) a recurring troll, who’s been here before, and knows you A LOT better than you think), was flagrantly, intentionally, and maliciously manipulating your feelings. That you are too sweet and generous in giving (s)he/it the benefit the doubt is a testament to how sweet you are. That in no way makes you stupid, because, again, we all fall into that trap from time to time. Who among us has never let their feelings override their common sense when they wanted to believe in someone, for whatever reason? The idea that we can control our feelings is utter nonsense; only sociopaths can do that.
I think this is what pissed me off the most in everything you said. What I see here is you fabricating things in your own mind to suit you and if there's any manipulation going on, it's right here.
I haven't allowed my feelings to override my common sense in 10 years and I'm not about to start now!
I may not be able to control my feelings, but you can bet you're bottom dollar that I am in complete control of my actions!
Labeling someone a sociopath, manipulator, stalker, etc...are serious accusations Bill, when you have to proof to stand behind your claim!
OCCOM BILL wrote: I wrote and post the above for one reason only, Montana. I, like so many people here, respect and care about you and want you to recognize the outpouring of concern for you (whether misguided or not) for what it is. It is, for the most part, an outpouring of love for you Montana, and I want you to feel the warmth of that consideration over and above whatever slights you have suffered from "mean girls" or embarrassment from buying the troll’s bullshit.
"Embarrassment from buying the troll's bullshit"? Are you kidding me Bill? I am so far from being embarrassed, you have no idea! <laughing> Holy **** Bill, where do you get this stuff? <more laughing>
OCCOM BILL wrote: Bask in that warmth and take solace in the FACT that so many people care enough about you to participate. It is evidence of how very special you are, and you should damn well feel good about it.
I should feel this even after asking people NOT to participate? Still scratching my head Bill.
OCCOM BILL wrote: Take care of you,
(((((((( Montana ))))))))
Yeah, you too Bill.
