9
   

Possibly stupid question about Army rank terminology

 
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jan, 2009 03:01 pm
@hamburger,
Ol' Hermie had actually been a creditable fighter pilot in the Great War. But when the time came, he showed he could crawl and fawn with the best of the toad-eaters.
Fountofwisdom
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jan, 2009 04:30 pm
Regarding Sergeant at arms: This position was definitely around during the 100 years war.(around 13th C). Noblemen were generally mounted. The sergeant was not: so he was considered of lower rank. His basic job was to kill anyone who tried to run away. He stood at the back of a line of infantry. I would guess if the word has a French origin, then it is probably Norman.
hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jan, 2009 04:42 pm
@Setanta,
set :

he just loved to dress up !
he had himself appointed REICHS JAEGERMEISTER (master of the hunt for all of germany) and would wear a green huntsman outfit (including a hat with a "gamsbart' - shaving brush , as we called it , disrespectfully) .

http://i1.ebayimg.com/04/i/000/fe/6c/b32f_1_sbol.JPG

couldn't find a picture with his full outfit , but this looks lovely too !
(he had a bit of trouble keeping his tummmy "under control" - it had a tendency to try and escape from even the most colourful outfit - that's why he later started to wear a cape over his uniform ) .

http://www.cwporter.com/Goeringff.jpg

he should have done well starring in wagner's operas.
hbg
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jan, 2009 05:00 pm
@Fountofwisdom,
Fountofwisdom wrote:
I would guess if the word has a French origin, then it is probably Norman.


In medieval Latin sources about the French history the word is servientes.

It's actually one of the oldest rank names in German as well: sarjant, serjant, scharjante, schargante - all meaning "servant of the knight", "footsoldier", "squire". (In a couple of texts from the 12th and 13th century you find these words in those meanings.)

Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jan, 2009 05:40 pm
@hamburger,
To paraphrase a television program which i never particularly liked, but did come up with this one gem, Hermie there used to dress up like a hotel doorman and eat entire pastry shops.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jan, 2009 05:43 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
That's right, Walter. The online etymology dictionary gives the origin as Late Latin, and servientum, as "servant, vassal or soldier."
0 Replies
 
Lee is a hero
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Mar, 2010 06:30 pm
Lee WAS the ranking officer in the Confederate Army. He was appointed to the rank shortly before the war ended by Confederate President, Jefferson Davis. Lee habitually wore a rank insignia of 3 stars, a colonel in the Confederate service. He did so for two reasons...1) the highest rank he acheived in the US Army was a colonel...Lee was a VERY modest man. 2) In the US Army the insignia of 3 stars is that of a Lieutenant General. In Lee's day only two men had held this rank. His hero, George Washington and his mentor Lt. Gen. Winfield Scott. He wore the insignia because he was modest and out of reverence to his "heros"! Actually the only time he EVER wore the correct rank insignia was at Appomattox. Before he left camp he told his aid de camp, "I shall require my finest uniform, for today I shall surely be Gen. Grant's prisioner". This uniform is on display in Richmond, VA at the Confederate History Museum along with many of his personal effects.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Mar, 2010 05:03 am
@Lee is a hero,
Winfield Scott never held the rank of Lieutenant General. Ulysses Grant was the first officer promoted Lieutenant General by the United States Congress after George Washington.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Mar, 2010 05:11 am
Winfield Scott was breveted Lieutenant General. That meant that he had the authority of a Lieutenant General if in the field on active service. His highest permanent rank was Major General. That is probably the source of your confusion. I know of no reliable evidence from any reputable biographer to the effect that Lee wore the rank insignia of a colonel in Confederate service because it was similar in appearance to the rank insignia of a Lieutenant General. Frankly, i think you just made that up.
0 Replies
 
boomerang
 
  3  
Reply Sat 25 Sep, 2010 08:11 pm
I just heard today that my brother's promotion to Lieutenant General has been approved by the President and is now before Congress.

Cool, huh?
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Sep, 2010 08:40 pm
@boomerang,
totally.
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Sep, 2010 08:42 pm
@boomerang,
Go, Boom brother!!
0 Replies
 
tango32
 
  2  
Reply Fri 15 Jul, 2011 12:35 pm
@boomerang,
Because in the 17th century armies the rank was Sergeant Major General, ranking below the General, who had overall command, and the Lieutenant General who was the General's deputy. The Sergeant Major General was the Chief of Staff/Administrator. "Sergeant" is a term derived from Latin via French "Serviens/Servant" a servant. In other words he did the hum-drum, day to day essential tasks of running the Army for the Generals.
When Oliver Cromwell organised "The New Model Army" during the English Civil War the word "Sergeant" was dropped from the rank. It was later applied in the British Army in the Napoleonic War to a Divisional Commander, Divisions being a new concept borrowed from the French. Lieutenant Generals were allocated Corps i.e. formations consisting of two or more Divisions.
Incidentally in the British Household Cavalry Regiments the rank of Sergeant is not used because of the "servant" antecedant. As all the original soldiers, including troopers, in the days of Charles 2nd, were gentlemen it was considered below their dignity to be described as "servants". The rank of Corporal,"Head of a body of men" was used. Hence "Corporal of Horse " equals Sergeant and "Corporal Major" Sergeant Major.
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jul, 2011 12:46 pm
@tango32,
Welcome to A2K, tango 32, and thanks for the interesting post!
0 Replies
 
 

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