When did Mexican become a "dirty" word?

@boomerang,

The word "Oriental" is a completely different issue.

First, Orient (meaning East) begs the question; east of what? This obviously implies a center (which marginalizes the people who are not at the center of it all). The issue here is tied up in the aftermath of colonialism.

Second, words develop a history. If a word is used in an insulting or derogatory sense enough-- it becomes insulting or derogatory. There is a cultural context, often a painful cultural context, that is important. This is certainly true with the word Oriental.

Third, groups should be able to decide their own identity. Of course, you get to choose how you refer to people. It is a free country. But people also get to choose what they are offended by. If you insist on calling people something that offends them-- you are an asshole. Of course I am not denying your right to be an asshole if you choose.

Fourth, as I have said. Most Mexicans don't mind being called Mexicans-- unless they have some other reason to think you are being a jerk (and there is the possibility that they may be mistaken).

Fifth. Most Mexicans and Hispanics in general feel they are the targets of bigotry. Part of this is because of the hatred whipped up by the anti-immigrant yahoos.

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@ebrown p,

It is only completely different because you keep insisting that this thread is about something that it isn't. Fine. Go ahead. I can't stop you.

My thread, which I tagged "language" was intended to explore how a word goes from common usage to being derogatory.

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@boomerang,

No, Boomerang, don't give in to a delusional babbler like Mr. Brown-Munoz! His own friend, Old Europe, told him he's imagining that the words "murder victim from Ecuador" are identically equal to "Mexican violent criminal".
http://able2know.org/topic/72011-269#post-3533242

A coward, in addition to an illiterate / innumerate and just plain dishonest person - that he is, and worse, but imho Mr Brown-Munoz is also CONTEMPTIBLE for disregarding the hundreds of victims targeted from M0scow to Berlin to NY to LA and points in between simply on grounds that they LOOKED like they MIGHT be illegals. Whether Chechens or Afghans or Mexicans are being murdered is immaterial, it's still MURDER.

Truly beyond contemptible - a DAMN LIAR, is what Mr Brown-Munoz IS, and a flake and a fraud and an accessory to murder to boot. And I do use all terms advisedly and with due deliberation / caution, before anyone asks Smile

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@boomerang,

A tad naive if true: It mentions "Mexican" and "dirty". Basically disabled charities have to change their names every 10 years or so. Words like "cripple" and "Spastic" go from descriptive to abusive.
Mexican is not a dirty word in England. Basically races you want to persecute you first have to villify. Turn their names into insults.

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@High Seas,

That is Mr. Hussein Brown-Munoz to you.

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@boomerang,

Boomerang, This is frustrating. (And, I am trying to show restraint by separating my annoyance with High Seas (who is intentionally obnoxious) with what I am trying to communicate to you.)

The issue of being Hispanic in the United States is a bit personal. This is why I find this a frustrating that you choose the word "Mexican" as a word that is becoming "derogatory"... but then reject my explanation.

This thread asks the question (and correct me if I am wrong) Why did the word Mexican become a dirty word? (The title of the thread asked "When" but the resulting discussion gave reasons).

I have given you a direct answer, based on personal experience, to the question you asked. I don't see how this is inappropriate to this thread.

My answer was that Mexican is becoming a "dirty word" because Hispanics and Mexicans are facing public political attacks based on racial stereotypes. This has been fueled by the anti-immigrant movement who say very nasty things.

The other answer (which is the one I think you wanted) is that Mexicans are ashamed of being Mexicans (for some reason presumably unrelated to political attacks and racial stereotypes). My observation that most Mexicans are not ashamed of being Mexican also seems to be relevant.

I find this other explanation a bit annoying. It completely discredits what Hispanics are saying they are feeling and it ignores the very real attacks that Hispanic Americans are facing. High Seas, calling me Mr. Brown-Munoz (a surname he got from CJHSA which they surmise is Spanish) is a prime example. He thinks that having a Spanish surname somehow discredits me.

My point is this, Mexican Americans are real people. If you are going to have a discussion about something you observe Mexican Americans, and then reject out of hand the only person who is trying to explain a Mexican American perspective...

What is the point of this thread?

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Only ignorance of the individual can make Mexican into a dirty word.

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@ebrown p,

ebrown p wrote:

..........High Seas, calling me Mr. Brown-Munoz (a surname he got from CJHSA which they surmise is Spanish) is a prime example. He thinks that having a Spanish surname somehow discredits me.
.........................

More nonsense - no surprise there! Your name is the one you signed yourself under your early posts in this forum, which I looked up on your request. I don't remember the first name you used, but it's not Hussein. I could look it up if I were interested, but I'm not - nor does CJ come into this in any way.

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@High Seas,

Proof of previous statement - if Mr Brown-Munoz understands the concept of "proof", which is very much in doubt from his posts:

http://able2know.org/topic/4621-1#post-119711

Perhaps the objection was to the fact (and "fact" is another concept of which he's innocent) I left out the squiggle over the "n" in his name?!

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@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

Only ignorance of the individual can make Mexican into a dirty word.

This thread to me is funny, since when I see Mexican families walking, small children are often holding a parent's hand. On busses, the children usually sit quietly. In other words, there is a family cohesiveness, I often see, that I may not see from all American families. I think Mexicans, and their culture, may have something to offer Americans that is positive, in my opinion.

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@ebrown p,

I don't reject your explaination but I wonder why people are allowing it to happen. By treating it as a dirty word aren't we helping make it a dirty word?

I started this thread because Mo came home wanting to go out for Spanish food. I knew he meant Mexican food. I asked him about it. He said they were told at school not to use the word Mexican.

Then I remembered the reaction of my neighbor when I tried to remember the name of the Mexican man who worked on my house. I would have never thought that anyone would think that referring to someone from Mexico as Mexican is wrong.

If it really is all about anti-immigaration nonsense, by letting the jerks turn Mexican into a dirty word, we help them win.

Just my opinion.

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@cicerone imposter,

Quote:

Only ignorance of the individual can make Mexican into a dirty word.

I agree C.I., but we're all being asked to play along. I don't want to play along because I don't think Mexican is a dirty word.

And it is very confusing. Because now it seems that I'm being told that if I don't play along then I'm the racist.

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@boomerang,

Thanks Boomerang,

I completely agree with you in both of these cases. Yes, making "Mexican" a bad word in innocuous contexts is a bad thing.

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@boomerang,

boomerang wrote:

I started this thread because Mo came home wanting to go out for Spanish food. I knew he meant Mexican food. I asked him about it. He said they were told at school not to use the word Mexican.

I believe the above is the heart of the matter, in that your reaction is possibly a lesson to your child to either "get with the program," or question the program, even when it is perhaps of little consequence to oneself, nor a moral, nor ethical dilemma.

I personally would stop using the word Mexican, for the sake of my child not having to wonder why I would hesitate to take the teacher's advice.

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@Foofie,

I know where you're coming from Foofie but really, I'm Mo's teacher.

(And I'm prepared to take it up with his Cambodian principal if I have to.)

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@boomerang,

boomerang wrote:

I know where you're coming from Foofie but really, I'm Mo's teacher.

(And I'm prepared to take it up with his Cambodian principal if I have to.)

I only gave my opinion; now I shall mind my own business. <Foofie leaps up and flies away>

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@boomerang,

Boomerang...

Learning how to respectfully question authority is a very important lesson. Don´t miss a great opportunity to teach it.

You might consider talking to the teacher first, it is possible that either Mo misunderstood this teacher, or that something happened in the classroom.

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@Foofie,

There's a lot more than translating "Mexican" into "Spanish"; if Boomerang plans to fight the entire PC system, read this first: The Economist, one of the best publications anywhere, had to write this hilarious editorial some years ago:

Quote:

Some words, let's admit it, are just too offensive for their own good. Some condemn themselves; but others pose as perfectly harmless, capable of being slipped by bigots into every conversation. These need watching; for the n-word is only the tip of the iceberg. Videotapes from other city offices over the years show a Latina councilwoman, Laetitia Gonzales, bursting into tears when a colleague described her dress as Day-glo pink; the first openly lesbian sub-accountant, Ms Wilkins, resigning when the budget director pointed out a dichotomy in her spread-sheets; and the gay information tsar, Roger Pringle, refusing point-blank to sit beneath a sign reading Queries. Worst of all was the incident late last year when the sub-director of pothole-maintenance, having groaned "Not juice again!" as his secretary brought his breakfast, was sacked for anti-Semitism.

Slurs ancient and modern Despicable incidents of this sort should clearly be avoided. But there you go again; "despicable" itself contains a slur on Americans of Mexican extraction. The Economist has been told off for that, too; again, quite right. Despicable should never be used in public situations; conspicuous should be conspicuous by its absence; and all who are at all perspicacious will lament the presence of these words in our language. It's all the fault of those damned Romans, who could never have run their empire without the help of all those illegal dishwashers and cleaners they so casually insulted with almost every verb they coined.

http://www.uwec.edu/geogrApHy/Ivogeler/w188/4terms.htm

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@High Seas,

Mercy!

I don't intend to fight the entire PC system. I just want to use enough pesticide to keep it out of my house.

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@boomerang,

PC System? Like the "vast left-wing conspiracy" that the PC system is a part of, "the Politically Correct System" is little more than politically-based paranoia.

Let's explain it this way. Whenever you get human beings together, there are going to be different opinions and feelings about all kinds of things. If you interact enough with other human beings, chances are you are going to say something that offends them... or they are going to say something that offends you.

When this happens, you have two choices. Either you can care about the other persons feelings, or you can ignore (or mock) the other persons feelings.

This is a free country, so you don't have to care about other people's feelings. You can say pretty much anything you want-- but, of course, so can anyone else. This means that one person has the perfect right to be an bigoted jerk. And I have the perfect right to call them a bigoted jerk . And thus, the system is fair.

I think it is better, in most social situations at least, to care about other people's feelings... even if you don't understand them. If you really disagree, there is always the option of speaking with them respectfully about the issue.

1 Reply

When did Mexican become a "dirty" word?

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