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Another unwilling victim of scientology?

 
 
mrhunt
 
Reply Fri 9 Jan, 2009 03:31 am
As its been widely Shown,John travolta's Son Recently passed away of a seizure......very sad.what Suprised Me However Was the fact of finding out that john was in fact a Scientologiest!

And like Most He Inflicted His very fucked up beliefes on his Family apparently...His son who suffered From a Rare disorder causing seizures was Treated Not by Doctors or medicine to Calm down seizures but instead From the church......Of course with them im sure theres "no such thing" as Seizures but its the EEEEEEVIL thetans! Get an E-meter Test!AHHHHHHH!!!!!

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2009/01/03/riddle-of-john-travolta-s-son-could-he-have-been-saved-115875-21013277/

So how do you guys feel about this? Accident? Or did their Beliefes in Scientology have a Hand In Mistreatment or NON Treatment of their son leading to His death? Imo The Parents Should be brought up on negelent Homacide Charges.....
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Type: Question • Score: 3 • Views: 1,635 • Replies: 18
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Montana
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Jan, 2009 04:17 am
****!
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farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Jan, 2009 04:44 am
@mrhunt,
I guess my feelings about all these revealed "Truth" religions like Scientology, Christian SCience, Seventh Day Adventists, and, to a minor degree, the Amish(for their beliefs in herbalism, I cant let the parents get off scot free in public opinion when its they who required practise of their beliefs on the underage kids. Medical science has been able to successfully treat many of these disorders without all the mumbo jumbo .

However, having said that, I wouldnt want to extend the parents tragedy by hitting them with criminal charges. Maybe, if they are gonna be availing themselves of these fringe beliefs, they should be required , by social services, to get treatment for any serious chronic or acute disorders .
I know tthis conflicts with the Constitutions establishment clasue and the "free expression" clause, but the treatment of a disease of a minor needs to be reviewed especially since the parents are doing the thinking, (they are, in effect, preventing the practise of their own kids "free expression" rights)
Montana
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Jan, 2009 05:33 am
@farmerman,
I'm still shocked at reading this, but I'm agreeing with Farmer. It really bugs me that the boy had no medical attention. This is what I'm getting anyway and since the boy did obviously have medical conditions, it bothers me that they put the boys life in the hands of any religion.
I have issues with religion with this sort of thing being one of them, so that bugs the hell out of me, but at the same time, I don't think they should be charged.
I truly believe John loved his boy just as much as we all love our children and I'm thinking he'll be abandoning his blind faith. Unfortunately, he learned the hardest lesson any parent could and I think the guilt he'll live with the rest of his days is punishment enough, not that I think he should be punished.
I honestly believe that he and his wife thought they were doing the very best they could for their boy.

I don't think John and his wife should be charged just to set an example for others as the death of his child is example enough to encourage people to bring their children to a doctor. At least it should be! If it's not enough, then charges wouldn't even make dent.

It's very sad!
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boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Jan, 2009 09:44 am
In my state these things are usually charged as manslaughter and result in convictions.

I don't know what laws govern this particular situation but I don't think the Travolta's deserve a pass just because they're famous.

Personally, I have an impossible time understanding how a parent would think their religious beliefs over-ride the health of their children. It's beyond selfish.
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Jan, 2009 09:50 am
I still don't quite understand what the truth of this is. I've been watching snippets of shows while I work out that seem to indicate that it's at least questionable whether they were or weren't giving Jett medical attention. (As in, not definite that they WEREN'T.)

As far as I know (very sketchy, from sketchy sources, in small doses, so take with a shaker of salt), Scientology allows medical attention for the ~30% of illnesses that they think are not "all in the head." As in, if you have cancer, you go to the doc, get chemothereapy, etc.

The big issue that I keep seeing is a) epilepsy may not have been one of the "approved" illnesses (this is mixed, different people are saying different things, and b) Jett may well have been autistic. Autism is one of those 70% of disorders that Scientology doesn't think is "real," and therefore isn't treated/ dealt with as usual.

Andrew Sullivan has been on this one but I don't read him much anymore. But if you're curious, check there as he has a lot of info.
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shewolfnm
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Jan, 2009 10:47 am
I hope.......... if Jillian ever dies of anything, that no one in the world tries to wring me out to dry for any decision I may or may not have made for her.

Being her parent, I assume I know what is best for her. Thats my job. And if it is religion that I assume is best for her, then as her parent I have the right to make that decision.

Just because I dont believe in scientology , does not mean Im going to fling poop at John for his sons death.

We only have sensationalized media coverage on this situation.. not in home experience. We dont know what really happened.
0 Replies
 
saab
  Selected Answer
 
  2  
Reply Fri 9 Jan, 2009 10:59 am
I cerainly am not for Scientology, but I looked up in google what they say about illness and doctors and here is their answer:
Do Scientologists use medical doctors?

Of course. The Church of Scientology has always had the firm policy of not diagnosing or treating the sick. Medical doctors are trained to deal with the physical aspects of illness and injury. A Scientologist with a physical condition is always advised to seek and obtain the needed examination and treatment of a qualified medical professional. Once under medical treatment, a Scientologist then addresses his illness or injury with auditing to handle any spiritual trauma or other factors connected with the physical condition which may have predisposed him to illness or injury.

If this statement is correct then the article saying Travolta did not let his son have medical treatment is nothing but gossip and stupid talk.
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Jan, 2009 11:07 am
That blurb doesn't address their feelings on mental issues at all.

My paper has run two tiny blurbs about Travolta's death. Meanwhile the ongoing coverage of two minor's deaths withing the Christian Science church has generated dozens of articles. Travolta seems to be being treated with kid gloves in the media.

I don't know all the facts so I'm not throwing stones.

All I'm saying is that if a child dies from a treatable illness that has not been treated because of the parent's religious beliefs then an investigation is called for.
0 Replies
 
Montana
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Jan, 2009 05:50 pm
We really don't know yet if he was denied medical treatment and I would be very surprised if he was, although, religion can be extremely powerful.
People who have any kind of sesures are at risk of hurting themselves. I worked with a guy who was epelectic and he had them all the time, sometimes hurting himself. He had one one day where he hit his head on the corner of the table nearly splitting his head open. He's had other injuries, but you get the point.
The guy I worked with was on medication, which helped reduce the amount of seisures, but not completely, so even if the boy was on meds, he would still (most likely) have at least some seisures.
As far as I'm concerned, this was just a terrible accident.

Boomer, I'm not defending him at all because he's a celeb. I don't look up to celebs like some do, so my opinion here has nothing to do with who he is.
If the boy was denied medical treatment for his seisures, that changes things a bit, but still doesn't make John responsible for his childs death. Seisures are very common and as I said before, even on meds, people still have them and as long as they do, the risk of injury and death will always be much greater than those of us who don't have them.

Either way, we still don't know if he was being treated or not.
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mrhunt
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Jan, 2009 03:40 am
@saab,
Im not so sure i agree with That saab Regarding their Refering of doctors.....Ive seen Literally dozens Of Cases On television and Reliable News sites (No,Long time ago so i cant find em anymore) where People Were Taken by scientologists For Extremely serious medical condiions (such as travolta's son) and Died or had extremely serious consequences.

There was one on dateline one time about a kid Who Was....Uhm,Psychotic? Delusional,Just Really EXTREMELY mentally ill and his parents denied Him medical doctors instead taking him to the church for treatment.Long story short he got way ******* worse,Suicidal and One day took a knife and stabbed his mother to death 80 times and then tried to kill himself....Medical professionals they interviewed said that there was Little to No Chance of that happening with Proper Drugs and treatment.

So again im not Maybe saying travolta Maliciously Said "NO! No medical treatment for yoU!" but instead was so blinded by His Religious "faith" that he Took the WRONG PATH in treatment for his son ultimately leading to his death that happened In part From His neglagince.
saab
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Jan, 2009 07:55 am
@mrhunt,
The majority of parents do what they think is the best for their children.
In GB there is a rumor or truth that the vaccine against measles might cause autism. So it is not only your religion but also superstition and other correct or wrong information which make you react to what you think is the best for your child
So the result is a low uptake of the MMR vaccine.
New figures show there were 1,217 cases in England and Wales from January to November 2008, compared with 990 in 2007.
Six in ten were in children under 15.
Around three million children and teenagers are now believed to be at risk of measles because they missed a dose of the vaccine, or are entirely unprotected.
Immunisation expert Dr Mary Ramsay, of the Health Protection Agency, said: 'This continued rise is due to relatively low MMR vaccine uptake over the past decade and there are now a large number of children who are not fully protected.

'This means that measles, which is highly infectious, is spreading easily.
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boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Jan, 2009 08:51 am
I've since heard that Jett Travolta was taking anti-seizure meds so I agree that it really is just a tragic accident.

As Montana and I both know, doctors are quick to point fingers (especially at boys) and say ADD or something else and expect parents to medicate their kids. You've got a fight on your hands if you challenge their diagnosis.

From what I've read Scientology sees seizure disorders as medical problems (as they well should) and do not discourage treatment.
shewolfnm
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Jan, 2009 08:53 am
I have known many people who were both heavily medicated and not medicated .
That disorder, no matter what your course of action, is never 100% under control. Ever.
Montana
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Jan, 2009 04:32 pm
@boomerang,
boomerang wrote:

I've since heard that Jett Travolta was taking anti-seizure meds so I agree that it really is just a tragic accident.

As Montana and I both know, doctors are quick to point fingers (especially at boys) and say ADD or something else and expect parents to medicate their kids. You've got a fight on your hands if you challenge their diagnosis.

From what I've read Scientology sees seizure disorders as medical problems (as they well should) and do not discourage treatment.


I'm relieved to hear that he was being treated. From all the pics I've seen of them together, it's obvious that John adores his children and even though his boy was on meds, I'm sure John is still going to carry lots of guilt as it is.

Rest in Peace Jett.
0 Replies
 
Montana
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Jan, 2009 04:33 pm
@shewolfnm,
shewolfnm wrote:

I have known many people who were both heavily medicated and not medicated .
That disorder, no matter what your course of action, is never 100% under control. Ever.


Exactly.
0 Replies
 
mrhunt
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Jan, 2009 04:36 am
Well,that settles it then.

I still ******* hate scientology though.Yeah.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Jan, 2009 06:33 am
@mrhunt,
I heard this AM that the kid was on Depovera and had quit taking it for some reason. Cosnequently he had been suffering at least one serious seizure per week. This was done with John Travolta's approval?
0 Replies
 
littlek
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Jan, 2009 11:15 am
Scientologists may indeed treat illness which are physical with medicine (as well as other techniques). But they abhor psychopharmacueticals. I've been in a room full of over 100 scientologists who were literally chanting about the evils of psych drugs. It was a little scary.

I also heard he was taken off seizure meds because they weren't working. There are many seizure drugs out there - did they try a different type or combination? I know I can't definitively diagnose other disorders from afar and without a medical degree, but the child looked like he may have had autism of some sort. Under Scientology, if he had a disability like that, he wouldn't be getting treatment for it.
0 Replies
 
 

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