Hamas' perverted use of children

@Endymion,

Endymion wrote:

i'm sorry david but i'm not playing your game

That 's just as well; no need for sorrow.

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@Endymion,

Endymion wrote:

do you think the French resistance didn't put their children in danger when they harboured Allied soldiers and Jews?

But did the French resistance then attack the occupying Nazis from where the Allied soldiers and Jews were hidden? I think not.

The only way the French resistance put anyone in danger was if the occupying Nazis should find Allied soldiers and Jews being hidden. Then the Nazis would have had a reprisal by killing French citizens. That is not happening in Gaza.

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@gungasnake,

gungasnake wrote:

Quote:
Everyone is trapped there together. ..

Trapped by their own stupid and evil nature. If they were even close to being normal or decent people, somebody in the slammite world would take them.

A simple look at a map explains the problem; the slammite world is a gigantic swath of territory running from the wall of China to the west coast of Africa and thirty or forty degrees of lattitude up and down, and then you have this miniscule little slice of land called Israel which is necessary to prevent any further recurrences of the genocide which took place in the 40s,
and there's room to put the 'palestinians' in many parts of the swath but, no, the UN and the slammite powers which want Israel gone insist on having them right there in the two little hellholes right on top of Israel as a perpetual grievance.

Very succinctly put. It is just that many people like to look at the problem as a snapshot of today; the concern of many does not include the historical reality.

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absolutely

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@Foofie,

Foofie wrote:

Endymion wrote:

do you think the French resistance didn't put their children in danger when they harboured Allied soldiers and Jews?

But did the French resistance then attack the occupying Nazis from where the Allied soldiers and Jews were hidden? I think not.

The only way the French resistance put anyone in danger was if the occupying Nazis should find Allied soldiers and Jews being hidden. Then the Nazis would have had a reprisal by killing French citizens. That is not happening in Gaza.

Where exactly do you think Hamas has to go, where there are no children around? Their territory is tiny and jam-packed with poor people. There are practically no areas where they can operate where there are not innocent people nearby.

What a ridiculous idea that you Jews have, that these people are somehow aggressors, when you have done everything you can to make their lives hell for decades... better to have butchered them long ago if this is how you treat people.

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@Cycloptichorn,

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Foofie wrote:

Endymion wrote:

do you think the French resistance didn't put their children in danger when they harboured Allied soldiers and Jews?

But did the French resistance then attack the occupying Nazis from where the Allied soldiers and Jews were hidden? I think not.

The only way the French resistance put anyone in danger was if the occupying Nazis should find Allied soldiers and Jews being hidden. Then the Nazis would have had a reprisal by killing French citizens. That is not happening in Gaza.

Where exactly do you think Hamas has to go, where there are no children around? Their territory is tiny and jam-packed with poor people. There are practically no areas where they can operate where there are not innocent people nearby.

What a ridiculous idea that you Jews have, that these people are somehow aggressors, when you have done everything you can to make their lives hell for decades... better to have butchered them long ago if this is how you treat people.

Cycloptichorn

Hamas could have built some buildings away from population centers. It is believed by many people that they are using the population centers as human shields, so that when Israel attacks the world opinion will hopefully be on their side, because of the civilian casualties. Very sad, I believe.

No one stopped them from developing industry and commerce prior to 1967.

Since I do not make references of "you Gentiles," you really should not make references of "you Jews." Not being an Israeli citizen, nor ever having been to Israel, it is offensive for you to include me in any "blame" of whatever Israel did or did not do over the decades. Please get off your proverbial high horse.

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@Foofie,

Quote:

Since I do not make references of "you Gentiles," you really should not make references of "you Jews." Not being an Israeli citizen, nor ever having been to Israel, it is offensive for you to include me in any "blame" of whatever Israel did or did not do over the decades. Please get off your proverbial high horse.

No. You are a consistent and outspoken supporter of Israel and it's barbaric behavior towards the Palestinian people. You are to blame as much as any other Zionist. That you seek to remove yourself from such blame is typical but not persuasive.

The inherent irony in the situation Israel currently finds itself in is almost too much for me to bear. I think the simple truth is that Israel is no better nor worse than any other country, no matter how much moral superiority it's citizens and supporters try to display; their actions have proven that they have a casual disregard for the lives of innocents and very little willingness to swallow their pride.

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@Cycloptichorn,

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Quote:

Since I do not make references of "you Gentiles," you really should not make references of "you Jews." Not being an Israeli citizen, nor ever having been to Israel, it is offensive for you to include me in any "blame" of whatever Israel did or did not do over the decades. Please get off your proverbial high horse.

No. You are a consistent and outspoken supporter of Israel and it's barbaric behavior towards the Palestinian people. You are to blame as much as any other Zionist. That you seek to remove yourself from such blame is typical but not persuasive.

The inherent irony in the situation Israel currently finds itself in is almost too much for me to bear. I think the simple truth is that Israel is no better nor worse than any other country, no matter how much moral superiority it's citizens and supporters try to display; their actions have proven that they have a casual disregard for the lives of innocents and very little willingness to swallow their pride.

Cycloptichorn

That is silly to say I am to blame, since I choose to make my feelings known. Are you relating to "blame" the way Catholicism relates "sin" to one's thoughts? Blame requires actual involvement. I am not involved with Israel.

You can then also "blame" me for the deaths in Vietnam, since I was in the military during the Vietnam Era, and believed the U.S. had every right to be there.

Please blame me for the deaths at Hiroshima and Nagasaki, since I believe the U.S. was totally correct to drop the bombs.

Blame me for Iraqi deaths too, since I voted twice for Bush, and applauded the invasion of Iraq with tremendous woops of joy.

Blame me for the lack of consumer goods in Cuba, since I applaud the trade blockade.

Now that you have all these additional things to blame me for, do you understand that once I said I was a Jew, I believe, you disenfranchised me from backing Israel as a conservative Republican American, which I am.

P.S. If Yellow Stone National Park's dormant volcano erupts, and spoils the lettuce crop in California, you should blame me also, since I really find the west coast's ultra-orthodox liberalism just too too.

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@Foofie,

I don't just blame you, Foofie, for the things that America has done wrong; I blame myself and all other Americans as well. We share an equal responsibility to do everything we can to stop our country from committing atrocities and it's folly to pretend that that anyone is somehow exempt from this. The blood stains all of our hands.

Quote:

Now that you have all these additional things to blame me for, do you understand that once I said I was a Jew, I believe, you disenfranchised me from backing Israel as a conservative Republican American, which I am.

What a ******* joke. I could care less if you're a Conservative Republican American; you're a Zionist who backs Israel's barbaric attitudes towards the Palestinians, who your people forced off of their land and then created a virtual slave state out of 60 years ago. That blood is on your hands too, your people's hands, Foofie, and your denials don't change that. What's worse, your continued zeal for the expansion of Israel - at the cost of Palestinian lives - clearly paints you as someone who supports the continued butchery of those you consider to be lesser than yourself and your kin.

As I said above, the irony is maddening and saddening. After the horrors of the Holocaust the Jews allowed their leadership to be co-opted by reactionary idiots and they have royally screwed up their own situation, to the point where all of your people now live in fear of their lives. This is a failure of the diplomacy on the part of your people; the stubborn intransigence and continued superior racial and ethnic attitudes displayed by the modern Israeli state lead directly to rockets being fired at your cities on a regular basis. Israel is a state ran by their version of Conservatives for far too long, and they are reaping the rewards of this on a daily basis.

The funniest thing about the whole situation is that without US support and US money, Israel would have been eliminated long ago. Israel exists as our pawn, our cat's-paw in the region, and that is the entire reason and purpose of its existence. When the usefulness of that is at an end I do not believe you will see Israel survive much longer; unless you can learn to get along with your neighbors, that is.

Cycloptichorn

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@Cycloptichorn,

Quote:

...What a ******* joke. I could care less if you're a Conservative Republican American; you're a Zionist who backs Israel's barbaric attitudes towards the Palestinians...

What about the Chinese and their barbaric attitude towards Chengis Khan and the Mongol horde??

What about Romans and their barbaric attitude towards Huns and Vandals?? Would that have bothered you?

1 Reply

@gungasnake,

gungasnake wrote:

Quote:
...What a ******* joke. I could care less if you're a Conservative Republican American;
you're a Zionist who backs Israel's barbaric attitudes towards the Palestinians...

What about the Chinese and their barbaric attitude towards Chengis Khan and the Mongol horde??

What about Romans and their barbaric attitude towards Huns and Vandals?? Would that have bothered you?

Your points r well taken, Gunga.
"In war, there is no substitute for Victory"
and u need to be as practical as necessary
in bringing that about; failure to do so can cause a whole lot of bad luck.

David

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@Cycloptichorn,

Cycloptichorn wrote:

I don't just blame you, Foofie, for the things that America has done wrong; I blame myself and all other Americans as well. We share an equal responsibility to do everything we can to stop our country from committing atrocities and it's folly to pretend that that anyone is somehow exempt from this. The blood stains all of our hands.

What a ******* joke. I could care less if you're a Conservative Republican American; you're a Zionist who backs Israel's barbaric attitudes towards the Palestinians, who your people forced off of their land and then created a virtual slave state out of 60 years ago. That blood is on your hands too, your people's hands, Foofie, and your denials don't change that. What's worse, your continued zeal for the expansion of Israel - at the cost of Palestinian lives - clearly paints you as someone who supports the continued butchery of those you consider to be lesser than yourself and your kin.

Sorry, I cannot be blamed, similar to my being a Mets fan, and I am not to blame for the Yankees not winning the World Series this past year.

What you seem to be doing by assigning blame is disenfranchising me from having an opinion, in our country that recognizes free speech. So, I am not to blame for just an opinion. If you think I am an activist, you are wrong. I just have my opinion. That does not constitute blame.

I never said Israel should expand. They do what they want; I just believe Jews should have a homeland. That is the extent of my opinion. Like I think the U.S. saved many American lives by dropping the two bombs on Japan. No blood is on my hands for Japanese dead. I do not understand your use of the concept of blame? Perhaps, you are too abstract in its use?

Do you blame the men and women that today join the volunteer military? Perhaps, they are just patriotic? Do you allow for someone to be patriotic that does not agree with your definitions of acceptable military force?

You seem to be quite taken with your moral judgements. I do not think the Arabs are inferior to the Israeli Jews. I just think there is a population of Arabs that believe all the land in the Middle East belongs to the Muslims. Do you have a solution, based on that belief? Can all the Israelis move to Berkeley?

By the way, who gave you the right to stand in judgement of others? I do not stand in judgement of you, even though I do not agree with much of your posts. Also, do you know that in this big country of ours, Berkeley is an island of liberal thought that does not play well in large swaths of this country. Can you also condemn those Americans that sent sons and daughters to different wars, over the history of our nation?

Do not worry; Israel will stop the carnage soon. The world will be assuaged by not having to see Jews fight for their right to live in peace.

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@Endymion,

Endymion wrote:

If you read the Times online (UK) you will see that Israel are now being accused of using white phosphorus

That's OK. It's a perfectly legal weapon.

Endymion wrote:

"The Geneva Treaty of 1980 stipulates that white phosphorus should not be used as a weapon of war in civilian areas,

Not exactly. It does say people should take extra care to make sure there is no collateral damage though.

Endymion wrote:

However, Charles Heyman, a military expert and former major in the British Army, said: “If white phosphorus was deliberately fired at a crowd of people someone would end up in The Hague.

I presume that by "a crowd of people" he means civilians. There certainly wouldn't be a problem with firing it at a crowd of enemy soldiers.

It is true that firing weapons at civilians is a war crime. That is the case with any weapon however, not just white phosphorus.

Endymion wrote:

White phosphorus is also a terror weapon.

I'm not sure that "terror weapon" has any meaningful definition. As such, I don't see how white phosphorus would qualify.

Endymion wrote:

The descending blobs of phosphorus will burn when in contact with skin.”

That is true.

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@Endymion,

Endymion wrote:

how can you read about Israel using white phosphorus on a densely populated area and turn around and call the Palestinians 'evil'

That the Gazans are evil can be seen by the way they reacted to 9/11.

White phosphorus is a legal weapon. That Israel uses it to defend themselves from the Gazans does not absolve the Gazans of their evilness.

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Hamas' perverted use of children

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