Will computers ever be as intelligent as people?

Brandon, The human brain is "not" a computer.

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Brandon..
Humans have evolved as interrelated organic bodies with consciousness, from mainly simple reproductive systems. The brain is a portion of totality of physical aspect of a human being.
Computers originated from a machine aimed as a simple arithmetic calculator.
The following statement seems to describe simply an apparent aspects of similarity between the human brain and a computer:

Quote:

[T]he human brain works with electrical signals, electrical resistance changes, chemical data storage, etc. It works by physical law, not magic - it is a computer.

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cicerone imposter wrote:

Brandon, The human brain is "not" a computer.

The human brain uses electrochemical means to store and recall data and to analyze that data. A human brain is much more sophisticated than one of today's computers, functions somewhat differently, and has quite a different origin both in terms of where it came from and what types of calculations it's designed for, but it's still just a device that works without benefit of magic, and could, in principle, be completely understood, be duplicated with off the shelf compounds, be redesigned, etc. It's a device that works by physical and only physical means, e.g. short term memory works by the lowering of resistance between adjacent neurons, whereas long term memory works by means of the storage of chemicals encoded with information.

They even know, in many cases, which parts of the brain perfrom which duties. Also, it's a strong argument for the mechanistic view that experiments indicate that training of rats, worms, etc. can be transferred by transferring chemicals from the brains of the creatures that underwent the training.

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If you add liquid chemicals to the computer "brain," what you'll have is a short circuit. No computer is capable of purchasing a airline ticket of free will to any destination in the world, then do all that is necessary to arrive at the destination, take a bus or cab to the hotel, freely roam the streets of that destination, walk into a restaurant to have a meal or a tavern to have a drink. Wink

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Brandon9000 wrote:

They even know, in many cases, which parts of the brain perfrom which duties. Also, it's a strong argument for the mechanistic view that experiments indicate that training of rats, worms, etc. can be transferred by transferring chemicals from the brains of the creatures that underwent the training.

Those aspects cited here do not resolve the problem of higher level problems mentioned earlier:

.. "Problem Finding and Measure Finding"

than the usual computer problems:

.. "Problem Solving throug given Measures."

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satt_focusable wrote:

Those aspects cited here do not resolve the problem of higher level problems mentioned earlier:

.. "Problem Finding and Measure Finding"

than the usual computer problems:

.. "Problem Solving throug given Measures."

I'm not sure whether you're referring to previous posts in this thread, but I'd argue that these are matters of the capactity of the hardware and sophistication of the software only, and just because it can't be done today, doesn't imply that it can't be done at all. The fact that the brain works by non-magical principles proves, to my way of thinking, that a machine could someday be built, at least in theory, that would possess self-awareness and be able to do these types of tasks.

Also, in terms of walking into a restaurant, etc., a machine could certainly be built that would walk into a restaurant. Some characteristics of human beings are the result of the conditions in which we evolved, e.g. anger, love, hunger for restaurant food, etc., and a machine would not have these particular qualities unless they were specifically designed in - but they could be designed in if there were some reason to want an artificial intelligence to have these traits.

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Brandon9000 wrote:

The fact that the brain works by non-magical principles proves, to my way of thinking, that a machine could someday be built, at least in theory, that would possess self-awareness and be able to do these types of tasks.

I am sorry that your conjecture here could not be provided with a proof.

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Here's the proof. A machine exists right now (pick any specific person's brain) that performs in a certain way and works only by ordinary physical laws, primarily chemistry and electricity. Therefore, if the same exact chemicals were assembled in exactly the same way artificially, and given the exact same electrical stimulation, they would behave the same way, that is, if there is no magic involved. If they do not behave the same way, then what you have is two precisely identical objects which behave differently, which is not the way the universe operates. If one of the properties of the naturally occurring brain is self-awareness, then the identical device produced artificially will have the same potential. Also, if the same chemicals could be assembled in the same way to provide the same functions, they could be assembled according to a slightly different design, if modified functioning were desired. If you do not believe this, please point out the specific error in the reasoning.

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Brandon,

Kudos. But I think satts believes in things spiritual. :-(

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Craven de Kere wrote:

Brandon,

Kudos. But I think satts believes in things spiritual. :-(

Thanks, Craven, but once one asserts that the brain operates by principles beyond the physical, my only comeback would be "prove it."

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Yeah, but people who believe in the supernatural don't generally care to do so.

I'm not sure if satts believes but I think I remember him saying so. And if so, he might not believe the brain functions entirely within the realm of the physical.

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Brandon9000 wrote:

A machine exists right now (pick any specific person's brain) that performs in a certain way and works only by ordinary physical laws, primarily chemistry and electricity.

It is not sure that your machine works at all.
It couldn't be even a material for the worst sci-fi. (I hope you are not a writer. Smile

)

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Craven de Kere wrote:

But I think satts believes in things spiritual. :-(

At least, the "Problem Finding - Measure Finding" aspect of higher level task of knowledge can be limited to the range of techniques, without involved in spiritual aspects at all.

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I'm not sure if satts believes but I think I remember him saying so. And if so, he might not believe the brain functions entirely within the realm of the physical.

There is no proof that the study of the brain functions can safely be limited to the physical aspects because the spiritual aspect is more important in knowledge than the mere physical one.

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satt_focusable wrote:

Brandon9000 wrote:
A machine exists right now (pick any specific person's brain) that performs in a certain way and works only by ordinary physical laws, primarily chemistry and electricity.

It is not sure that your machine works at all.
It couldn't be even a material for the worst sci-fi. (I hope you are not a writer. )

He was talking about the human brain so as a 'machine' it works pretty well. Even if ya don't like its product. ;-)

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There is no proof that the brain functions can safely be limited to the physical

I agree, no empirical evidence either way.

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I very rarely like to follow these arguments into the, knock down, drag out stage. I'm pretty much here on the board just to have fun. I guess I've communicated my position on this topic, and I respect the opinion of everyone who's posted in this thread, so I guess I'll just agree to disagree with you nice folks and move on to the next interesting thread.

Brandon

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Just in case it wasn't clear I agree with you. ;-)

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Craven de Kere wrote:

Just in case it wasn't clear I agree with you. ;-)

See you in the next debate. Smile

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Of course they will...Technology is advanceing at an alarming rate; and as scientists have already unraveled the secrets to 'learning' in a computerized brain, they need only program a computer to act upon these decisions. I for one believe comuters are already as smart, if not moreso than we are. Consider this my friends, computers make the most logical decision based on the given information; sometimes we as a species overlook the answers we seek due to blinding emotion. Computers lack that emotion and can therefore make cold, rational decisions. They can also hold and retrieve vast more amounts of knoweledge...of course a computer will never be a philosopher; but it could certainly hold most any teaching job!

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I compute, therefore, i am!

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If intelligence is measure by IQ then the computer have already will surpass human if they have not done so yet.

there is something that they will never be able to even if scientists puts all there efforts in it. It is called, emotions; love, hatred, prejudice and happiness, etc.

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Will computers ever be as intelligent as people?

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