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Auto makers want $34 billion "bailout"

 
 
Reply Thu 4 Dec, 2008 04:59 pm
Here's the latest info on the auto maker's request for money:

Quote:
Automakers face skeptical senators on aid plan
By KEN THOMAS, Associated Press Writer Ken Thomas, Associated Press Writer 27 mins ago

WASHINGTON " U.S. automakers drew fresh skepticism from lawmakers Thursday in a rocky confrontation over their pleas for an expanded $34 billion rescue package they say they need to survive. Congressional analysts said one bailout plan under consideration would fall short of what the carmakers want.

With time on the current Congress running out, opposition to the bailout appeared to be as strong as last week " before Detroit's Big Three auto chiefs returned to Capitol Hill with more detailed plans on how they would spend the money.

Several lawmakers in both parties are pressing the automakers to consider a so-called "pre-packaged" bankruptcy in which they would negotiate with creditors in advance and downsize, then file for Chapter 11 protection in hopes of emerging quickly as stronger companies. The Big Three have publicly shunned the notion, saying it would kill sales by destroying customers' confidence " but executives have indicated in recent days that it might ultimately be necessary.

The executives all agreed in Thursday's hearing that a multibillion-dollar bailout deal would include a supervisory government board that could order major restructuring of the companies if deemed necessary for survival " similar to the results in many reorganizing efforts under bankruptcy law.


One of the arguments auto makers are making is that if the auto industry goes under, it'll impact more people that depends on auto workers who spend money at shops, markets and restaurants.

Have they even equated that to all the people who have already lost jobs and those slated to lose their jobs? It's not only auto workers without jobs that creates more hardship for others, but they don't seem to grasp that simple concept yet; it's me, me, me, and me.

61% of Americans don't want our government to bailout the auto companies, and I agree with them. Let them go bankrupt like everybody else, and let the government spend money on mass transit and other infrastructure building/maintenance jobs. Jobs is whats needed to save our economy; long-term jobs that'll help other businesses stay in business and increase the tax base to begin paying off the debt. No more bailouts.

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Type: Discussion • Score: 7 • Views: 2,337 • Replies: 16
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Dec, 2008 05:04 pm
@cicerone imposter,
AT&T's cutting jobs too.

Quote:
AT&T cuts 12,000 jobs

By Ritsuko Ando Ritsuko Ando " Thu Dec 4, 2:12 pm ET


NEW YORK (Reuters) " Top U.S. phone company AT&T Inc said it will eliminate 12,000 jobs, or about 4 percent of its workforce, in a fresh wave of cuts to cope with an economic downturn that has exacerbated a decline in traditional phone sales.

Joining a raft of companies slashing costs to survive a slump in spending, AT&T said on Thursday it will cut the jobs over the remainder of 2008 and 2009, and take a charge of about $600 million in this year's fourth quarter for severance.

The carrier also plans to cut its 2009 capital spending from this year's levels, though spending plans have not been finalized. AT&T said it would provide details in late January.

The cuts come as phone companies struggle with declining land line sales, as more consumers switch to wireless or alternative, cheaper services offered by cable and Internet companies. AT&T cited "economic pressures, a changing business mix and a more streamlined organizational structure."
0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Dec, 2008 07:17 pm
I believe we need an auto industry in our country, since in WWII the auto industry was able to retool, and make tanks. If we continue to make nothing in this country, we might just decide to make the country into a theme park, as its major source of revenue. We can then all be patritotic by wearing a costume to work everyday, to entertain the world's tourists?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Dec, 2008 07:33 pm
@Foofie,
Foofie, Our auto industry should be allowed to go bankrupt. Why would the auto industry be needed to make tanks for future wars? Why should taxpayers bail out car makers because they didn't manage their companies correctly? Why should taxpayers pay for auto workers payroll and benefits when so many in this country are also losing their jobs, and never had the same pay or benefit? What makes auto more important than other industries in this country? Aren't the people working in the computer industry or AT&T just as important? The majority (61%) do not want our government to bailout the car companies, and I agree with them.

They continued to build gas-guzzlers while foreign car makers made smaller, better quality, and more fuel efficient cars. Poor management is no excuse for failure, and taxpayer bailouts.
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Dec, 2008 12:49 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

Foofie, Our auto industry should be allowed to go bankrupt. Why would the auto industry be needed to make tanks for future wars? Why should taxpayers bail out car makers because they didn't manage their companies correctly? Why should taxpayers pay for auto workers payroll and benefits when so many in this country are also losing their jobs, and never had the same pay or benefit? What makes auto more important than other industries in this country? Aren't the people working in the computer industry or AT&T just as important? The majority (61%) do not want our government to bailout the car companies, and I agree with them.

They continued to build gas-guzzlers while foreign car makers made smaller, better quality, and more fuel efficient cars. Poor management is no excuse for failure, and taxpayer bailouts.


Your list of Socratic questions above is too much for me to answer. The short, simple answer is: It is the American way - to bail out the car industry. It is what Superman would do. Your opinion makes sense to you. My opinion makes sense to me. I can live with your opinion. Please try to live with mine.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Dec, 2008 01:58 pm
@Foofie,
It is not the American way; it's the socialist way. The bailout will do nothing to increase demand for cars when the world economy is in shambles, and more people are losing their jobs and homes. What the gov't needs to do is create jobs that are sustainable in "all" economic conditions - such as public works projects to make and repair mass transit systems, our roads and bridges, and our schools.


Even well run auto companies that provides quality, fuel efficient, cars are not selling cars as in the past. What makes you think the three US auto companies will survive with a bailout? That'll be money flushed down the toilet, because there4 is no way for them to ever pay back any money given today. It only delays the inevitable.










0 Replies
 
hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Dec, 2008 02:13 pm
imo the automakers shouldn't be "bailed out" but given a chance - and probably some financial assistance - to retool . part of the retooling would include a cutback in production to "sustainable" levels - whatever that means .

if the automakers are not to be given any assistance , should all financial institutions (banks ... ...) also be allowed to fail - no matter what the consequences ???
hbg

ps just listening to CNBC : oil price keeps falling - nearing $40 a barrel and probably will fall further - gas might fall to $1.50 gallon and even lower - perhaps the BIG 3 can start churning out gas guzzlers again and start making a profit , at least in the short term .
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Dec, 2008 03:40 pm
@hamburger,
How about the 533 thousand people who lost their jobs last month? Who's going to "bail" them out?
hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Dec, 2008 03:53 pm
@cicerone imposter,
as i said : the automakers should NOT be bailed out , but "something" needs to be done to keep at least some of the jobs in a future auto industry .

i also believe that ALL unemployed should be provided with adequate assistance to help them find employment in new industries .

you might be interested to read the "canadian" thread on a very much related topic :

http://able2know.org/topic/126249-3#post-3496140



0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Dec, 2008 12:40 am
Looks like congress is going to give the auto companies 15 billion.
Mr Stillwater
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Dec, 2008 12:59 am
@cicerone imposter,
$15b? How are your 'manufacturers' going to get their Christmas 'presents' with that kind of chickenfeed??

Quote:
The world’s priciest private jets are -
Airbus A380 - $300 million-plus
Unnamed Middle Eastern Head of State (Prince Alwaleed Bin Talal Alsaud?)
New York-based jet-interior expert Edése Doret is doing the interiors for $100 million

Boeing 747-8 - $270 million-$280 million
Four people (subjet to FAA’s non commerical approval)

Boeing 767 - $118 million-$165 million
Chelsea football club owner Roman Abromavich and Google founders Larry Page and Serge Brin.

Boeing Business Jet 3 (also 737-900ER) - $68 million
8 Ordered already

Bombardier BD-700 Global Express- $45 million

Embraer Lineage 1000 - $40.95 million

Gulfstream G550 - $36 million
London-based billionaire Lakshmi Mittal

Dassault Falcon 900 - $33 million-plus
Billionaire Sergio Mantegazza, president of Swiss tour company Globus & Cosmos, is a confirmed Falcon owner.


Its a hard task. Flying in your private jet rogering your 'mile-high' mistress, stating your case in a bespoke suit and just making it back in time for your 'home' mistress to service you.



Honestly, does anyone actually believe that they are going to use the money to do anything but move their headquarters to the Caymans or Dubai? That's were the smart money's going.....
http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/07y21eP4At9Ry/610x.jpg
0 Replies
 
cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Dec, 2008 07:04 am
Why did the gubmint bail out AIG with hardly any strings attached then turn into a giant string Medusa when the auto companies came knocking?

The government has no business funking with the private sector. Once they buy in, they will write laws that favor them over their competition. It's explicitly forbidden by the Constitution.
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Sat 6 Dec, 2008 11:38 am
@cjhsa,
As our government is operated by neophytes who do not know what they do, they reacted to the perceived emergency (like Iraq's WMDs), and threw money at the "no money for credit" problem, and didn't bother to set accountability or strings attached to "that" money. After AIG threw a party that cost $300K, somebody bitched, and some in congress said "what the phu...?"

Even though 61% of Americans don't want congress to "bail out" the car companies, they considering throwing more money at a problem they don't understand. Car sales around the world is DOWN. There's good reason for that; loss of jobs and homes. We're staring at "depression" as more companies lay off thousands of their workers, and our congress wants to sink money into cars when people need food and shelter - and jobs. They'll never learn.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Dec, 2008 12:19 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
White House: Constructive auto talks with Congress

By JULIE HIRSCHFELD DAVIS, Associated Press Writer Julie Hirschfeld Davis, Associated Press Writer " 1 hr 37 mins ago


AP " A new Toyota Tundra truck for sale sits on a lot which was formerly a Ford dealership which has closed …

WASHINGTON " Facing massive job losses, the White House and congressional Democrats are negotiating a deal to provide about $15 billion in loans to prevent Detroit's weakened auto industry from collapsing.

The White House said it was in "constructive discussions" with lawmakers in both parties to dole out the assistance as House and Senate staff aides worked through the weekend drafting bailout legislation that is expected to come to a vote next week.
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Dec, 2008 01:55 pm
@cicerone imposter,
****!!!!
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Dec, 2008 02:00 pm
@cicerone imposter,
it will be $15 billion to kick the can a year down the road, nothing more. Considering that the big three will spend that year cutting jobs this does not buy a lot. Bankruptcy would be a better idea, but our political system is too weak to deal with that. so we put another charge on the credit card instead....how so very AMERICAN!
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Dec, 2008 03:39 pm
@hawkeye10,
I agree; bankruptcy is the natural process for a failed business that has not prepared itself by making quality, fuel efficient, cars and trucks, and preparing for that rainy day. Thousands are being laid off their jobs, not only auto factories. Our congress is short-sighted and blind as to how to make the right decisions during this economic crisis; the only thing they're good at is spending money in the most sloppy ways that we don't have.
0 Replies
 
 

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