@aidan,
Many countries do not celebrate christmas as a religious holiday; it's essentially the celebration of the winter solstice (as Cyclo said), and its meaning has long been lost.
I still enjoy listening to Bing Crosby's White Christmas.
@aidan,
aidan wrote:
Quote:
Christmas isn't special or unique.
To you - but that's exactly the sentiment that David is expressing- that for those of us born before 1980 - the Christmas season in the US was special and unique.
perhaps you could consider modifying that to "some Christians born in the U.S. before 1980 (or whatever year you desire)"
Your paintbrush is making strokes that are far too broad.
@ehBeth,
Excuse me - you're correct.
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:it's essentially the celebration of the winter solstice (as Cyclo said), and its meaning has long been lost.
But here's another extremely broad brush stroke.
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:I have it on good authority that that holiday is regarded the Jews about like Groundhog Day.
every time I think you can't come up with something sillier, you manage to
OSDavid, I wouldn't ever wish bad things to happen to you, but I do often wish that you'd think through the things you post.
@aidan,
Christmas as a tag-along to celebrations of the solstice is partially historically correct. Christmas was a tag-along to a number of previously existing celebrations.
@aidan,
aidan wrote:
Quote:
Christmas isn't special or unique.
To you - but that's exactly the sentiment that David is expressing- that for those of us born before 1980 - the Christmas season in the US was special and unique.
It was an entirely different entity from what it has become.
I'm not saying that's right or that's wrong - but yes - it was special and unique.
Oh, I get that - but it's like a little kid, who thinks his situation is special; until they grow up, and realize that every kid thinks their situation is special.
America just ain't a white, christian nation any more.
Cycloptichorn
@Cycloptichorn,
Quote:America just ain't a white, christian nation any more.
And more's the better. I just understand David's sense of nostalgia, that's all.
Being Jewish, I like the idea that Christmas is (just) the celebration of the birth of a Jewish baby. What Jewish person can not like that?
However, my complaint with Christmas is how the descendants of the pagans, that once celebrated Saturnalia, now celebrate the replacement holiday Christmas. It just drips of hubris in some circles, in my opinion, in the manner it is celebrated. Like there is no one else in the world. And, the fever-pitch of gift buying, card sending, partying, drinking, over-eating, is just over the top, when it is supposed to symbolize Peace On Earth, in my opinion. How many Christians get that message through the haze of decorating, shopping, drinking and eating?
And, while there are many people in this country that identify with the Christian religion, the country is not an officially Christian country. God believing, supposedly, but no state religion, even though many people act like and believe it is.
Chanukah was a small holiday in the past. Today it has gotten more media coverage, since Jewish parents, around the time of many Jews moving to suburbia (1960's?), realized they needed a holiday in December to allow them to give gifts to their children, lest Christmas start looking too seductive to their children. The two holidays are almost 180 degrees apart in meaning, in my opinion, since Christmas reflects Peace On Earth, and Chanukah reflects winning a battle against the Assyrian Greeks that wanted the Jews to bow down to their pagan god, I believe. Anyway, what is interesting, in the way of borrowing from different cultures, during Chanukah parties children hit a pinata with a stick (to get the candy inside). A Spanish custom that is joining Chanukah celebrations (children's parties) via the Sephardic Jews that went to Israel and brought it into that country.
@Foofie,
Quote:I believe. Anyway, what is interesting, in the way of borrowing from different cultures, during Chanukah parties children hit a pinata with a stick (to get the candy inside). A Spanish custom that is joining Chanukah celebrations (children's parties) via the Sephardic Jews that went to Israel and brought it into that country
My friends in New Jersey had Chanukah bushes instead of Christmas trees. As one of six children, I was always lucky if I got three presents - so I was envious of my Jewish friends who got EIGHT!!! And that was guaranteed...
Quote:However, my complaint with Christmas is how the descendants of the pagans, that once celebrated Saturnalia, now celebrate the replacement holiday Christmas. It just drips of hubris in some circles, in my opinion, in the manner it is celebrated. Like there is no one else in the world. And, the fever-pitch of gift buying, card sending, partying, drinking, over-eating, is just over the top, when it is supposed to symbolize Peace On Earth, in my opinion.
Whatever - ye who is without hypocrisy, feel free to cast the first stone. My question is - do any of the atheists on this forum put up Christmas trees and give their kids Christmas presents? Do they hum 'Silent Night'? Do they decorate their houses with lights and candles? And if they do - are they closet pagans-or god forbid Christmas loving non-believers, perhaps?
I don't really care what they choose to do - I just wonder why- if they do that - they have so much to say about what other people choose to do and believe and why...
@aidan,
I celebrate with my grandmother, who is christian.
my house has only an ethiopian santa for decoration...
@Rockhead,
Are you an atheist Rockhead?
@Rockhead,
wouldn't that qualify as agnosticism?
@aidan,
labels are convenient ways for folks to quickly understand that which defies description.
use whichever one works for you.
@Rockhead,
I was just curious as to how you'd describe yourself.
Labels don't work for me - by and large.
@aidan,
I rarely describe myself...
I am spiritual, but without a religion.
Amerindian Celtic is as close as I will put you.
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:
DontTreadOnMe wrote:
Quote:i could have sworn that was the point of christmas. "peace on earth, good will to men".
If I remember, u said that u r not a Christian.
U coud not begin to guess what I am endeavoring to restore.
David
you said christmas of 50 years ago.
i remember christmas of 50 years ago. it was celebrated in the christian home i was raised in. and i still celebrate the main message of peace and goodwill to others.
i understand what you want to restore; "the good old days". good luck with that.
and an early "merry christmas" to you david.
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:...
I still enjoy listening to Bing Crosby's White Christmas. ....
have you ever heard bing and david bowie doing "little drummer boy"? really nice.
@Cycloptichorn,
Quote:
Saying: "Merry Christmas!" and playing Christmas Carols shows that thay RECOGNIZE
that Christmastime is SPECIAL and unique.
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Quote:Christmas isn't special or unique. That's the whole point.
That 's the whole point that I am waging fianacial warfare
against.
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Quote:It is the celebration of a mythical event, glommed on top of a Pagan holiday.
It wasn't even 'unique' when it was first envisioned, but rather a
way to convert pagans to the new religion while still letting them celebrate the Winter Solstice.
Cycloptichorn
To the extent that I can restore the
status quo ante, as of the beginning of the 20th Century, I will
DO SO.
I coud
not POSSIBLY care less than I do about whether u approve.
David
