Prop 8?

Most of what we consider ideals are unattainable as a species. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that even priests can be monsters. Popes have been responsible for some of the worst violence against our fellow man.

Power corrupts no matter at what level of human endeavor, and many gain power through corruption and greed.

How many heterosexuals follow that Pope's ideal? Let's see, there was more than one reason for Martin Luther, the Protestant church and Elizabeth I.

The second question is too stupid to answer.

Quite a lot actually. It's just that they don't make the news all that much seeing as how domestic bliss is not newsworthy. And useless for lawyers and judges as well.

It is boring I must admit. But it's also easy. It's not stress free but it's not so far off.

I do not think that being unable or unprepared to answer a simple question, which anybody who knew anything about these matters would know the answer to, is a reasonable, or indeed civilised, excuse for asserting that the question is stupid. So I'll ask it again.

What vows do they take in official homosexual unions in those few states that have given them the OK. Surely they have to promise something?

Google hits on gay marriage vows: 1,010,000

Just one Google link:

http://wedding.theknot.com/real-weddings/same-sex-weddings/articles/gay-weddings-basics.aspx

Countries who have gay marriage have already have seen billions of dollars flow into their economy from weddings and the states in the US who have approved it are waiting their share.

You're as bad as a teenager who has homework and doesn't have any idea how to use the Internet.

I stopped reading at "may serve". As I thought it is anything anybody wants.

Searching for dignity within.

You're floundering again LW. No sooner do you revert to babyisms I know you're floundering.

You could bring money into an area by legalising all sorts of things. Are we going to get into a competition on that basis?

Baby let me follow you down.

I wouldn't be writing about floundering and babyisms, Spendi -- you're the champ. You lost oxygen a long time ago.

Now it's Iowa, Massachusetts and Vermont, several foreign countries and there's a long list of vows inluding "Do you take this man as your lifelong companion," and even "Do you take this man as you husband."

Same-Sex Weddings: The Basics

Planning your commitment ceremony? A little confused? We've got the answers and info you need for a a dream-perfect celebration.

For those couples who can't make the trip to Massachusetts, the first state to legalize same-sex marriages, a commitment ceremony may serve the same important purpose as a traditional wedding. Like a wedding, it's a public proclamation of your commitment before your family and friends and it gives you a sense of permanence and stability. It’s also a great excuse to celebrate your love with a big party! Nevertheless, there are no distinct guidelines for commitment ceremonies, so you may be wondering about a few things. Here are some answers to get you started.
Who Should Marry Us?

A civil servant's primary role is to legalize the event -- and that's not what's happening here. Instead, you can ask a judge or justice of the peace to sanction your union symbolically or you can contact an Ethical Humanist officiant (to find a local society, check the American Ethical Union). Keep in mind that your officiant needn't have to be "official" -- i.e., licensed to perform legal weddings. This means a dear friend or relative can do you the honor. If you'd like to have a religious ceremony, speak with a minister or rabbi from the congregation to which you or your partner belong. If no officiant comes to mind, contact a Unitarian Universalist, Universal Life, or Metropolitan Community church, all of which support same-sex unions. You can also look for an officiant from a religion that leaves the decision to individual clergy (Buddhist, some Protestant, Reform Jewish). Don't overlook the Internet as a research tool for finding local officiants. Many local officiants invite same-sex and opposite-sex couples to contact them about creating a personalized ceremony.
How Does the Ceremony Work?

Since you won't get a legal document, your ceremony itself is the binding ritual -- as it should be -- so you'll likely want to make it truly personal. Even so, your ceremony's structure will probably be quite similar to a traditional wedding. The basic components include:

* The Greeting/Call to Attention: Your officiant tells guests they're here to support the commitment and love between the two of you, and may say a few words about you and your relationship.
* Declaration of Intent/Vows: Writing your own vows is a great way to celebrate your commitment to each other -- and its uniqueness. You can draw what you like from traditional religious or secular vows; adapt wordings from poems, songs, and prose; or start from scratch and express your feelings in your own words. Need help? Check out The Knot Complete Guide to Vows.
* Ring Exchange: Perhaps you've already given each other rings, and maybe now you'll add bands to go with them or re-enact the ring exchange with a few special words. You may choose not to wear your rings on your left hands, which might suggest that you're married the "traditional" way. Many gay and lesbian couples wear commitment rings on their right hands. You may also choose a nontraditional design and wear it on the traditional finger.
* Readings/Joining Rituals: You don't necessarily have to address gay issues in your readings; you could read about love, friendship, companionship, trust, growth, or whatever tickles your fancy. Joining rituals like a Unity candle (the two of you light a mutual candle with flames from two individual candles) or Native American sand blending are perfect ways to symbolize your union.
* Pronouncement of Marriage and the Kiss: This part speaks for itself!

If you choose a religious officiant or another person affiliated with a group (such as an Ethical Humanist), he or she may give you "sample" ceremony wording from which to work. The more secular the officiant, the more creative license you will likely have over what is said, read, sung, or played during the ceremony.
What Do We Wear?

Just like any bride or groom, whatever you like! Some lesbian couples walk down the aisle in traditional wedding gowns and veils, complete with bridal bouquets, and some choose "tuxedas" (tuxedos designed for women). Men might choose traditional formalwear or nice suits purchased especially for the occasion. You can wear identical ensembles or choose separate outfits that complement your individual styles. The bottom line: Whatever style you choose, make it your own.
Can We Have a Wedding Party?

If you want your closest friends at your side during the ceremony, by all means, ask them! Traditionally, the maid of honor and best man are "witnesses" -- they sign the legal marriage document. You won't need your attendants for that, but you could create your own marriage contract (or ask an artistic friend to help design one) and ask two of your nearest and dearest to sign, along with you two and your officiant.
What About the Reception?

Some couples plan a relatively traditional reception with dinner, dancing, and the works. Others choose a beach barbecue or a fabulous meal at their favorite restaurant. You could have a cocktail party in your apartment, a picnic in your backyard, or champagne and cake on your roof. Or consider an art gallery or club. You can work with caterers, florists, and DJs, or you can ask friends to help with details. The only limits are your imagination and personal taste (and, of course, the dreaded budget). We have many more party planning resources right here on The Knot, so take a look.
Gift Registry? Where?

Like every newlywed couple, you deserve gifts. Like we tell everyone, The Knot Registry is the best, easiest, and coolest place to register. You can do it right now.

If you're thinking about a store registry (a department store or a national chain like Crate & Barrel or Williams-Sonoma), go for it, but prepare to deal with a registry consultant who's potentially unclear on the concept of same-sex registering. Even once you get past the comprehension stage, say couples we've talked to, there may be another dilemma: Most computer systems only have one place for the bride's name and one place for the groom's. Until these programs become more flexible, one of you may have to do a little role-playing. Tell guests to check under both bride and groom for each of your names.

You could also choose a nontraditional registry (at a sporting-goods or CD store, for example) or work with a manager to create a registry from scratch at your favorite housewares store, wine store, or book store.
Honeymoon?

Every newly married couple should run away for a little R&R. If you decide to celebrate your commitment privately or with a few close relatives or friends, you might even consider a destination wedding. Hawaii is a wonderful place to exchange vows; because of the recent effort to legalize gay weddings there (it still hasn't succeeded, but stay tuned), the islands are very open to commitment ceremonies. You'll find tons of packages to choose among, and you could do worse for a backdrop than a beautiful, palm tree-lined beach! Check out The Big Island of Hawaii for details.

http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/224789/april-16-2009/the-colbert-coalition-s-anti-gay-marriage-ad

Apparently some work is being done on The Colbert Post but The Huffington Report has it intact:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/17/the-colbert-coalitions-an_n_188124.html

From the New York Times:

http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/04/16/paterson-unveils-same-sex-marriage-bill/?hp

April 16, 2009, 10:29 am
Paterson Unveils Same-Sex Marriage Bill
By Jeremy W. Peters AND Sewell Chan
David A. Paterson

Updated, 2:56 p.m. | Gov. David A. Paterson on Thursday announced that he would introduce a bill to legalize same-sex marriage, drawing on the soaring oratory of the civil rights movement to call on the Legislature to add New York to the four states that have already authorized such unions.

Comparing the status of gay men and lesbians with that of blacks, Jews, women, disabled people and other groups who were historically excluded from full political and social equality, Mr. Paterson said he would lead the movement to authorize same-sex marriage in the Empire State. “We have a crisis of leadership today,” he declared. “We’re going to fill that vacuum today.”

HOORAY!

If a droll intellectual writer was trying to amuse his peers writing about the general madness during the early years of the millenium he would have to stretch his imaginative capacities a very long way to come up with a page like that.

It sure made me envious and rendered me into a juddering glob of tittering jelly.

The writer couldn't possibly have not been taking the piss.

Could he!!

spendi, Your brain is already jelly as well as your comments; they lack substance.

I just imagined Marcel Proust signing his name on it ci.

I don't suppose you have read Monsieur Proust.

You should.

What the **** has Marcel Proust got to do with a news article -- when the interns come to bring your dinner, don't let them accidentally hook you up for shock therapy.

I was merely looking for a way to avoid using that old cliche about something being so daft no writer could make it up.

If you remember we were asked what the sanctity of marriage was. And I responded with the vows of a Catholic marriage service. After which I asked what were the vows at an official homosexual union.

Now--were a writer like Proust to fictionalise such a conversational interchange and put into the mouth of a supporter of official homosexual unions he would be struggling to find anything as funny as the post you put up in this regard.

That's all I was doing. You don't want to read cliches about "you couldn't make it up" for the rest of your life do you?

But that post!! Man- I couldn't have made that up.

I was thinking earlier. Wouldn't proletarianising homosexual unions detract from the mystique and hints of decadence of institutions such as the Hollywood Sewing Cirlces and make it more difficult for certain types of journalist to titillate the public's saliva pods with hints and innuendoes and tasteless allusions and thus render their articles boring and harder to sell.

I've got news for you -- the church vows aren't all that much different than the civil vows if one gets married at City Hall. Or in Las Vegas. Do you live in a British cave? No, I forgot, you live in a British pub. Gay weddings are accepted in the United Kingdom -- the more high profile occurring between John Barrowman, the star of the BBC's Torchwood, and his architect life partner.

Since Proust was a gay man and used real people and real events as his basis, more directly than most fiction writers, it's hard to tell what he would write about gay marriage being gradually accepted all over the world. He was bed ridden a great deal of his life and although his liaisons with the same sex were mentioned, he did not seem to have a longtime companion. He was accepted in the upper society circles of that day as he wouldn't be in the nutty fundamentalist deadhead cross section of the society of today, which are considerably more backwards in their idea of morality than they were (okay, so they were French). The Mormons are the most overbearing about the lack of acceptance of the whole concept of gay unions, marriage, civil partnerships, et al. The Catholics, in the US anyway, are a mixed bag according to demographics but the Episcopalians are the most in favor of gay unions.

You believe you "get out" but where you are "getting out" must be with a bunch of pinched-brain, drunken idiots.

About this person of whom I had never heard until reading your post Wiki says-



So it seems he agrees with me. Which has me worried I can tell you.

If you remember, which you don't seem to do, the argument is about the use of the word "marriage". I knew we have "civil partnerships".

And he's only half English.

I could have chosen Evelyn Waugh. I said "like Proust" meaning given to that cloud of diffused irony. Proust's "seaside girls" in Balbec could not possibly have been conjured by a homosexual. Maybe Proust was a libertine like de Sade. A "Gillette Blade" .

What happens with a divorce?