Prop 8?

@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

So we should only license cars that are in running order at the time of the licensing or if not to be fair to rowboat owners we should license rowboats as cars? That is your kind of thinking?

Licensing marriages of homosexuals couples where the rate of reproduction is zero does not make any sense at all and to try to justify it by pointing out that heterosexual couples had a rate of reproduction that fall somewhat short of a 100 percent is silly and have no logic behind it.

Where did you get the idea that the rate of reproduction in homosexual marriages is zero?

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@Cycloptichorn,

Lord where was I when the news was announce that two women or two men had sex and as a result produce a child!!!!!

Damn I just knew I should had check cnn.com more often!

What a wonderful happening as important as the virgin birth of Jesus at least.

Sorry as soon as you can provide me with a link to this great news story I will rethink my whole idea not only on gay married but on how the universe work as well.

1 Reply

@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

Lord where was I when the news was announce that two women or two men had sex and as a result produce a child!!!!!

Damn I just knew I should had check cnn.com more often!

What a wonderful happening as important as the virgin birth of Jesus at least.

Sorry as soon as you can provide me with a link to this great news story I will rethink my whole idea not only on gay married but on how the universe work as well.

I know several lesbian couples who have a child born from one of them. Because, Bill, Sperm isn't hard to get. Where did you get the idea it was?

And why would it matter if the genetic material came from someone else? As an adopted child, I warn you to be careful with your answer.

Cycloptichorn

2 Replies

@Cycloptichorn,

That is one woman having a child not a couple having a child.

There been more then one case of a gay couple breaking up where the mother herself cheerfully pointed out that her partner had no claim on the child and the courts had agree.

Not even gay married off hand would change the fact that only one partner would have a claim on the child.

It is now a common law assumption that any child born during a marriage that the husband is the biological father however that assumption even before DNA testing could be rejected if the father was at sea for example during the period that the child in question was concept.

In any case, as it is impossible for two women or two men be have a child, so I cannot see the common law assumption applying to gay married couples.

In fact your sperm donor unless the sperm came from a license sperm bank and not a male friend for example would have a far stronger claim on any child born then the gay partner would have married or not.

Papers would be needed to be sign and an adoption with courts oversight done before the other half of the gay partnership would have any claim on the child in question.

Is it not hell that the universe does not agree with your PC viewpoint?

1 Reply

Other people's positions? We're talking about two adults wanting equal rights. Why are you so determined to impose your own bigoted beliefs that only denys equal rights to other Americans?

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@Cycloptichorn,

As a footnote I once knew a man who was the step father to a little girl for 7 of her 8 years on earth however when the mother passed away the little girl went to the wife side of the family.

He may had been married to the mother but he was not the biological father and had not adopted her so he had zero claim to her.

0 Replies

@cicerone imposter,

Other people's positions? We're talking about two adults wanting equal rights. Why are you so determined to impose your own bigoted beliefs that only denys equal rights to other Americans
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Sorry but wanting something and having a moral, legal, or comonsense right to it is not the same thing.

1 Reply

@BillRM,

It's not "my" own bigoted belief; it's included in our Constitution and Bill of Rights. Equality has absolutely nothing to do with bigotry; it's the antithesis of it. Get your head out of your arse.

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@BillRM,

Neither of my parents contributed to my genetic material. This is essentially the same as a couple of homosexuals who raise a child born by another. Do you contend that they are not my parents? That society has no interest in our family?

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@Cycloptichorn,

Yes people will adopt children my wife had done so and did a great job in raising her two daughers however 80 percent of children are now being born into a two parent married heterosexual families and most of the rest are being raise by either two parents that are not married or one parent or a blood relation of the child such as a grandparent.

The number of babies up for adoption in this coumtry are now so small that married heterosexual couples are going abroad to find them!

In any case the percent of children that are being adopted by non-blood relations are share out fairly evenly throughout society and I had not look at the figures but I would bet you that single people adoption numbers are at least equal if not greater then gay couples adoption of children. If you would care to bet we could do the research.

I frankly in any case see no reason to allow gay married because a very small percent of gay couples had adopt a child. If and when gaycouples become a major engine for raising children then and only then talk to me about their right to married.

1 Reply

@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

The number of babies up for adoption in this coumtry are now so small that married heterosexual couples are going abroad to find them!

This is not factually correct.
K
O

1 Reply

@Diest TKO,

You know BillRM, we all understand that we need babies for the future, but that doesn't mean that the more babies we contribute the more we contribute to society. The Baby Boomers represent a huge explosion of population, yet if you are to evaluate them for their contribution it won't be because of their volume. In fact, because of such a huge population explosion, it could cripple our social security come the years that my generation is paying for them.

Even if having or raising children is a way to contribute to society, it is NOT the only way nor has it been established that it is in any way an exceptional way to contribute.

Have a dozen children if you like, but come time they are in school, if everyone took this approach, how crowded would our schools be? You wanna front that bill?

I don't need to belabor the point, however, it's just amusing that you seem to orbit around gay couples not being able to have children (when they can with science for that matter) as if that prevented them from contributing to society.

It's tunnel vision and it shows how shallow your argument is.

T
K
O

1 Reply

@Diest TKO,

Diest, We're trying to talk to dummies who's belief relies entirely on their religion. They can't see for trees for the forest. Many children are left without parents for many reasons including divorce, accident, wars, famine, and natural disasters. That a gay couple are willing to adopt those children flies way over their tiny heads.

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Bill is really ignorant.

Quote:

BillRM wrote:

The number of babies up for adoption in this coumtry are now so small that married heterosexual couples are going abroad to find them!

That's the reason there are foster homes in almost every city in this country, because these children are in such high demand. (What a wust) Especially today in this economic climate when parents are struggling to feed their own children.

2 Replies

@cicerone imposter,

Quote:

That's the reason there are foster homes in almost every city in this country, because these children are in such high demand. (What a wust) Especially today in this economic climate when parents are struggling to feed their own children.

I am not doing the research to verify, but it is said that babies are in very hot demand on the adoption market, but as kids age they quickly lose value. By the time they get to the tween years they are almost impossible to place even if they are white. It would be difficult to find a child under five in foster care who is doing anything but being held till the adoption goes through. Even minority babies get adopted out quickly, though not as fast as white's of course.

I am assuming that bill was speaking of unwanted births, and on this he is correct.

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

hawkeye10 wrote:

Quote:
That's the reason there are foster homes in almost every city in this country, because these children are in such high demand. (What a wust) Especially today in this economic climate when parents are struggling to feed their own children.

I am not doing the research to verify, but it is said that babies are in very hot demand on the adoption market

By who? This is an ironic statement.

Cycloptichorn

0 Replies

@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

Bill is really ignorant.

Quote:
BillRM wrote:

The number of babies up for adoption in this coumtry are now so small that married heterosexual couples are going abroad to find them!

That's the reason there are foster homes in almost every city in this country, because these children are in such high demand. (What a wust) Especially today in this economic climate when parents are struggling to feed their own children.

C.I., Ive been in agreement with almost all of your posts on this thread, but I must take exception to this one. Yes, foster homes are filled with "unwanted" children, however not with babies. The demand for babies to adopt has always in modern times been greater than the supply, and the older the children get the harder it is to place them. This is an unfortunate but understandable situation. Those who wish to adopt are looking for a situation as close to that which would exist had they had their own natural conception and delivery.

1 Reply

The reason many families go to foreign adoption is not because of a lack of American babies/children it is because of the adoption processes from other countries which can be at times easier. Availability is an issue, but not the driver as Bill suggests.

Not that it is relevant anyways to letting gays marry.

T
K
O

1 Reply

@Diest TKO,

TKO does not know the facts. The shortage of American babies is what drove so many overseas. It got to the point that for many the American shortage was going to mean either that a couple would not get a baby or at best it would take a lot of years...so they avoided the american system and literally bought overseas. What TKO also does not know is that this rubbed foreign people the wrong way, it made them feel like Americans were buying their babies and thus a commodity. Years ago overseas governments moved to restrict the ability of outsiders to come in a buy their babies. I have heard that most of those places which were notorious for being baby markets for Americans have now dried up, because the rules are now very difficult to comply with.

this has driven the rent a womb market that we have going on another thread...as adoptable babies have become rare again the rational for spending big bucks on other methods has started to look better.

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

I did a fast google search and at even at a very pro gay adoption web site there was a statment that if gay couples could not be foster parents for example the number of children that would need to be rehome nation wide would be around 14,000.

Fourteen thousands is a large number in one sense but comparing it to the total number of tens of millions of children in the society at any moment it is nothing at all.

There seem few hard numbers but no indication that gay couples are a major factor in the adoption of children no mattere what their age compare to heterosexual couples.

1 Reply

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