Prop 8?

SS married benefit are a non-issue in the case of equal wage earners being in the job market an equal amount of times true however my logic is still rock hard my friend.

For example older gay men and women who are successful in life are not immune from picking younger mates that are not as successful in life and therefore enabling the younger partner to hit up the SS program on his or her partner work record.

One very amusing thing is that you confirm one of my points for the reason the benefit is in the law for spouses when you stated that gays couples are more likely to be equal earners with similar work time and not benefit from the spouse aspect of the law if they could get their hand on it.

True but why is that true? Could it be that heterosexual couples with children to care for is the reason unlike most homosexual relationships!

It's a matter of human dignity. They are being told that they cannot express their deep love for their partner in the same way that straight couple can. It's quite simple.

The majority is telling them they can't have A, but they can have B. The maority says B is just as good, but still prefers A. Wonder why?

Since Bill is too much of a coward to answer, I'll ask you. If you loved someone, would you be satisfied with a Civil Union?

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There is no difference between a gay couple doing this and a straight couple. You haven't shown how their sexual orientation makes a difference. You need to be able to do that in order to show that they deserve to be discriminated against.



There are two reasons:

First, yes, gay couples are more likely to not have kids. There are several reasons for this but a not tiny reason is that people like yourself actively work to keep them from being able to adopt children. This decreases their avenues for getting one significantly.

Second, there is no tradition in the gay community of one partner working and the other staying home, as there is in the straight community. Even amongst gay couples with children, both parents are more likely to work than the average straight couple. Therefore it is logical to assume that they will in fact be earning more money - and contributing more to SS - over time, than a straight couple.

You still have not shown a difference between gays and straights marrying in any situation, Bill. You need to do so in order to have a strong argument against allowing gays to marry.

Cycloptichorn

Hell you just proven my point or at least agree with me that gay and straight unions are not the same so there is no reason they should be treated the same under the laws.

Married laws and benefits are design from the beginning because of the children heterosexual relationships trend to produce.

There is once more zero strake holding interest by the society as a whole in gay relationships and therefore zero reason for state licensing of such homosexual relationships.

It simple logic 101.

In any case thank you for seeing the light of reason.

Wrong Bill.

The degree of difference Cyclo refers is the same degree is difference that can occurs between two straight married couples.

Care to man up and answer my question?

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And what question is that?

You're very inconsiderate poster Bill. I've posted this several times now. This will be the last time.

If you loved someone, would you be satisfied with a civil union?

I'm asking about you. Specifically you. As in choices for yourself. Do more dodging.

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Debra who are the real haters in this story?


That’s right. Activists have published on the Internet an “Anti-Gay Blacklist” of Prop. 8 donors. If the tables were turned and Prop. 8 proponents created such an enemies list, everyone in Hollywood would be screaming “McCarthyism” faster than you could count to eight.

A Los Angeles restaurant whose manager made a small donation to the Prop. 8 campaign has been besieged nightly by hordes of protesters who have disrupted business, intimidated patrons and brought employees to tears. Out of fear for their jobs and their lives, workers at El Coyote Mexican Cafe pooled together $500 to pay off the bullies.

Scott Eckern, the beleaguered artistic director of California Musical Theatre in Sacramento, was forced to resign over his $1,000 donation to the Prop. 8 campaign. Rich Raddon, director of the Los Angeles Film Festival, is next on the chopping block after the anti-Prop. 8 mob discovered that he had also contributed to the “Yes on 8” campaign. Calls have been pouring in for his firing.

Over the last two weeks, anti-Prop. 8 organizers have targeted Mormon, Catholic and evangelical churches. Sentiments like this one, found on the anti-Prop.8 website “JoeMyGod,” are common across the left-wing blogosphere: “Burn their f"-ing churches to the ground, and then tax the charred timbers.”

Thousands of gay-rights demonstrators stood in front of the Mormon temple in Los Angeles shouting “Mormon scum.” The Mormon headquarters in Salt Lake City received threatening letters containing an unidentified powder. Religion-bashing protesters filled with hate decried the “hate” at Rick Warren’s Saddleback Church in Orange County, Calif. Vandals defaced the Calvary Chapel in Chino Hills, Calif., because church members had collected Prop. 8 petitions. One worshiper’s car was keyed with the slogans “Gay sex is love” and “SEX.” Another car’s antenna and windshield wipers were broken.

In Carlsbad, Calif., a man was charged with punching his elderly neighbors over their pro-Prop. 8 signs. In Palm Springs, Calif., a videographer filmed unhinged anti-Prop. 8 marchers who yanked a large cross from the hands of 69-year-old Phyllis Burgess and stomped on it.

In San Francisco, Christians evangelizing in the Castro District needed police protection after the same-sex marriage mob got physical and hounded them off the streets. Enthusiastically shooting themselves in the foot, anti-Prop. 8 boycotters are now going after the left-wing Sundance Film Festival because it does business in Mormon-friendly Utah.

Also targeted: Cinemark Theaters across the country. The company’s CEO, Alan Stock, donated just under $10,000 to the traditional marriage measure. Never mind that Cinemark theaters are hosting the new biopic about gay icon Harvey Milk. They must pay for the sins of the company head who dared to exercise his political free speech.

Corporate honchos, church leaders, and small donors alike are in the same-sex marriage mob’s crosshairs, all unfairly demonized as hate-filled bigots by bona fide hate-filled bigots who have abandoned decency in pursuit of “equal rights.” One wonders where Barack Obama " himself an opponent of Proposition 8 " is as this insane rage rages on. Soul-Fixer, Nation-Healer, where art thou?

© 2008 CREATORS SYNDICATE, INC.

If you loved someone, would you be satisfied with a civil union?
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The short answer is hell yes the long answer is as follow.

For myself I had love a few women in my life and only in two cases had that resulted in a marriage. My wife and I had have an on and off relationship for over 21 years where we had live together for periods of up to 5 years without being married and share bank accounts and power of attorney IE kind of similar to a civil union as we gave each other control over some of our assets and join some of them also.

For a long time this arrangement work fine for both of us and then for personal reasons we decided to get married a few years ago. It would not had however broken either of our hearts to keep up what amounted to a civil union instead.

Relationships do not depend on the state licensing them one way or another.

I know you are trying hard to hit an emotional key of some kind but I just do not see it.

Our forefathers dumped tea in the Boston Harbor. Our founders declared their independence from tyranny and oppression and fought a bloody revolutionary war. Let Freedom Ring.

The Supreme Court ruled that free men and persons of African descent could never be citizens of the United States. Southern states would not voluntarily dismantle the institution of slavery that tyrannized and oppressed an entire race of people and those states seceded from the union instead. Our forefathers fought a bloody civil war. Abraham Lincoln signed the Emancipation Proclamation. Let Freedom Ring.

After suffering nearly a century of lynchings, beatings, and second class citizenship at the hands of their oppressors, and after our courts failed to enforce the Constitution, the blacks marched and rioted in the streets. They boycotted the oppressors. The Supreme Court finally ruled that the "separate but equal" doctrine was unconstitutional. Congress passed civil rights legislation to secure the blessings of liberty for all people regardless of race, color, or national origin. Let Freedom Ring.

Did you really think that your victims would crawl away and suffer in silence? Regardless of your wishes, your oppression of individuals and minorities has a price. The people whom you oppress will seek freedom and equality like all those who came before them. If they can't obtain it peaceably through our courts, they will take to the streets. They will boycott. They will protest. They will picket. They will fight back and demand their birthright as American Citizens: Liberty and Justice for ALL.

Like it or not, gay people will win equal rights under the law.

The answer you just gave is actually a NO.

You still chose to get married. You had the choice. You're a hypocrite. I'm not surprised.

Your "Hell yes" is an outright lie.

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The poor victims are shooting themselves in the old foot by this kind of uncivil behavior.

Oh a little history lesson might be fun have you hear of the Turner slave rebellion?

A slave by the name of Turner decided to lead a good old slave rebellion in the old south in the early 1800s and he and around a 100 followers went on a three days killing spree that included every white man women and child they could get their hands on.

They even went to a school and after killing all the staff they then lined up twenty kids and cut their heads off and place the heads by the bodies in a nice line.

As you would expect every white male in a hundred miles came running and put down this rebellion after a death toll of whites of around 60 or so mostly being defenseless women and children.

All those laws about not teaching slaves to read or even not being able to free slaves came about as a result of Mr. Turner actions and it set the south attitude in concrete concerning not ending slavery and keeping a very tight control on the black population free or not.

Now slavery is a great wrong however killing defenseless children at their school is a greater evil in my opinion. I am sure Debra however you will not agree.

A black list like in the 50s against citizens for daring to exercise their written in black and whites constitution rights is an evil and shameful and will result in a backlash like Mr. Turner slavery rebellion did.

Maybe we should not allow homosexuals to learn to read <grin>.

So your logic is because after a 20 years plus relationship I got married I am lying in some way to your question?

Yes when emotions are high logic tend to go out the window.

Oh Debra one little footnote concerning the Turner rebellion. It ended within three days but it took a number of weeks afterward to find Mr. Turner hiding place and they then gave him a full trial instead of just hanging him on the spot!

That fact to this day amaze me as personally if I had found him I would had just shot him like the mad dog he happen to had been. Killing children including babies in their mother arms lord and they still gave him a trial.

Sometimes the victims can go a little overboard even in the case of slavery.

You are lying, because you would never put your money where your mouth is. You admit to living in some facsimile of a civil union, but then you elect to get married.

What was the reason?
What wasn't good enough about your old situation?

Your own life choices illustrate how hollow your beliefs are: You're a hypocrite.

I don't know why you are getting emotional. As for logic and a window, you seem to put your storm windows up to keep logic out.

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Debra also after reading about the black list and the other hateful efforts of the homosexual rights community if there happen to be a need for further actions for example the recall of the Supreme Court Judges in California I will write a check for one thousand dollars and send it off.

This is not normal behavior for me and I do not live in California still you cannot reward such bad behavior on any one part in my opinion.

And they are free to place me on their backlist hell I will even send the black list creators a copy of the check with my full name and address.

You are free to feel that way no matter how illogial it might be but as I said the piece of paper in my safe a few feets away from me is not that important to me or my wife.

Our interpersonal relationshiop had not change one little bit dues to it being in the safe.

And the reasons to wed are between my wife and myself and not your business in any way or in any manner.

But then we are a man and a woman and therefore have that right that homosexuals rigthtfully happen not share for the reasons already given.

I went to the antigayblacklist.com where they list everyone who gave to the prop 8 drive but there seem no way I can now get my name on the list. Damn it!

If I had only known in time I would had send a check or two checks even!

I know I once I got on the enemies of scientology list but I would just love to get on the gay right black list.

I could frame a page containing my name and mount it on my wall.

hypocrite coward.

You seem to think it's your business if gays are to wed. You're a ignorant pig.

Case closed.

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Whatever .

In any case I join the blacklist group website and nicely ask them who I need to send a check to now in order to get on their blacklist.

If I get the information from them I will share it with this group and others around the web.

Never would had I had dream of sending checks in before this black list came to light now I can not wait to do so.